Does R-44 time really matter?

[Guest Maximinious]

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Edited August 13, 2010 by Maximinious

[permison]

It really depends on the job and what they fly. If you are going to be instructing or flying tours in the R44 then definitely yes. If you are going to be flying a 206 than probably not. A lot of this will revolve around what the employer flies and what the insurance requirements are. No one is going to let you fly passengers around in the R44 without some prior training in it. If you are lucky the employer will pay for that training but with the market the way it is probably not.

[lelebebbel]

what you should ask yourself is if it is going to matter for your first job, not for some hypothetical job 1200hrs later.

 

If it is not important for the job you're striving for now, then don't bother. Opportunities might open up to get the hours without paying for them, or at least without paying for all of them.

[Jonathan Hall]

Give me or Tom a call with Helicopter Academy. Tom has a R44 in Pomano, FL at a reduced rate, around $300 per hour. Also, he has a reduce rate for R22 time. You can fly with the Academy and once you hit 300 hours you will be covered under pathfinder insurance. Once at 300 hours the Academy will pay you to get to 500 or more. Just an idea. I have been flying for Tom for a year out of North Carolina and Sarasota, FL.

[BOATFIXERGUY]

My question is this.... do R-44 hours matter when you are interviewing for your first job post instructor (1000-1300 hour mark)? Some say they do... some say they dont. Obviously the more qualified you are, the better chance you have to get a job somewhere. But if I dont have R-44 time, is it really going to effect me for my first real job interview?

 

thanks in advance.

 

No. And I've never heard of anyone saying this. All that matters when you get to the commercial world is "can you fly and make GOOD decisions?"

[kodoz]

First job post-CFI? R44 time doesn't count for squat (unless they are the rare operator that's using an R44). [link]

 

I'd take lebelel's point one step further: Unless your school is willing to hire you and they fly R44s, R44 time probably isn't going to help you with the most important job: your very first one. Look at the job ads...seems the R44 jobs operators out there want (and can get) pilots with 500 hrs TT (and that might be an insurance requirement as well).

 

Overall, I'm not sure there's any rush for you to get to 200 hrs (or 300 to meet Pathfinder's requirements). Might take what money you have left and look into Helicopter Academy/BoatPix to see if you can get to 300 hrs with them and fly their photo contracts (

[horsefly]

My answer is along the line of lelebebbel's. It all depends on what your first job is going to require. For example, the company I went to work for flies mostly 22s but also does tours in a 44. However to fly tours in the 44 I had to have 50 hours of 44 time. If I hadn't gotten around 30-35 during my training, I would still be a long way from that 50 hour mark. Also keep in mind if you are going to be a CFI-I, a lot of schools do their instrument training in a 44. That being said, if you can't afford the 44 time, then you can't afford it. Finish your hours, find a job, and hope for some 44 time down the road.

[r22butters]

I have around 70hrs in the R44, and although it did get me an interview three years ago, it hasn't helped at all since.

 

However, of the 12 non-CFi jobs I have seen over the years, 10 of them were in the R44.

[Hawkeye0001]

I did two trips of almost 10.000 miles to visit a couple dozen schools all over the country. Many different operations, many different helicopters. The bottom line was: Nobody really cares about you having R-44 time. It's certainly a plus if they have an R-44 available. But what most of them ask is: "Do you have your CFI-SFAR for the R-22?" If you can afford it to build your time to hit the 200hr mark by flying an R-44, sure, why not? You can hit two birds with one stone and do both SFARs. And take your time, it keeps you proficient while you are waiting for a job.

 

On the other hand: If you are tight on money, I wouldn't do it. It's not only the flight time but you also have to pay two SFAR-Flights, the DPE, mabye a proficiency check in the 22 before, etc. etc. It adds up fairly quick. And remember: It's more important to eat than to fly.

 

Either way you should shop around for a good hourly rate. Most places have R-44s between $450 to as much as $650 but you can find rates as low as $300/hr (or even less)

Edited March 20, 2010 by Hawkeye0001

[copterkeith06]

Heliquestaviation.com $225 per hour

[Trans Lift]

I wouldn't bother unless you can really afford it. If you get a job somewhere flying 22's and they need a 44 pilot, they might pay for it for you.

 

I just got my first "real" job, flying ag and doing lift work with a 44. I have only 4 hours in it. They are paying for my training. Nearly all my time is in the 300.

 

Worry about the first job right now, that is going to be the hardest with these tough times!!

[R22139RJ]

I would at least get the PIC endorsement for the 44. That way if something does come up you can fly it and build your time that way, even if it may not be instructing.

[RkyMtnHI]

It depends on many things.. where you plan to teach, what that school wants, and do you want to make your self as marketable as possible.. and, of course, how much you can afford.

 

We would never hire a CFI that didn't have their 50 hours and sfar instructor sign off... it just doesn't make sense to us. But we fly 300's and R44s so that is one of the qualifications that we need. If you are starting your training or in the middle, it pays to get that time WHILE you are training.. not after you get to CFI. I have one instructor that works for me that didn't have access to an R44 until after he finished his CFII.. he wanted his 50 so he took the next year buying and flying as many tours as he could (he was flying for someone else then).. he had to pay about $5000 for his PIC sign off hours, then he had to fly a tour here and there for a year to get his 50... Instructors that did their instrument and or commercial IN the 44 passed him up and were teaching daily in the R44's. The instructors that flew the 44 for their certs paid about the same as he did in the end (i said about, so don't start splitting hairs). Now the one's that incorporated it in their training have hundreds of hours in the 44's because they were teaching all along... the one that waited is just now around 70 hours in the 44. If you can fly TWO ships for instruction, you have the chance to fly more hours, and thus, get the hours for a "real job" faster..

 

Now, that all being said; I believe John is right (imagine that), R44 time doesn't mean a thing when you get the magic 1500 and move on... BUT, as Chris said, you need to worry about getting that CFI job first.. and being as marketable as you can be.. I get three resumes a week, and appreciate everyone of them, but i just can't consider someone unless they have at least their instructor sign off in the r44, and i sure can't afford to pay for someone to get those hours... I also couldn't take someone with only a PIC sign off and put them in tours because our guys want those flights and they have much more time.. (besides that, i would never let a commercial pilot with only 10 hours, pic sign off, fly our tours)!

 

dp

[IceWater]

I agree with most of the posts. I picked up my PIC endorsement for the R44 because my school had one and I wanted to be competitive when it came to hiring time. The R44 in my school was used primarily for cross country ferry work and Instrument training for the heavy guys. Getting the PIC endorsement helped me stand out from the other students and was my goal when my time came to ask for a job as a CFII. My school didn't pick me up though (I couldn't wait to work) so I ended up working for a different school that could care less if I had the endorsement. I did get a job later on though at 800 hours flying the R44 in Atlantic City.

 

It's a good experience to get some time in the R44 and the sign off but it can be pricey. It's one of those nice to have deals unless it can in fact give you a competitive edge if your school or place of hire operates a R44. YMMV

[BOATFIXERGUY]

The original question was, "Does R44 time matter when going for your first non-CFI job" (1000 - 1300 hour level). Let's assume Maximinous was talking about the GOM or Vegas.

 

The answer is no.

 

Many of the post talk about the first job that was earned after initial training. And I would completely agree with those posts. But, the 1000 to 1300 hour, which is really 1200 - 1500 or even higher today, is a job flying the 206, 500, or 350. Now if the first non CFI job you're trying to get is flying tours with a company that only has R44's, then obviously yes.

 

Many of you make great points about the below 1000 hour mark. But, a pilot is not going to be overlooked because they have all R22/S300/E280/B47 time vs. someone that has R44 time in their resume when they show up at the Gulf to fly a 206 or Vegas/Alaska to fly tours in the AS350.

 

If I was a new pilot would I get R44 time so I could get to that mark (1,000 + hours)? Sure. Maybe I could work for dp! It will make you more marketable. But I would add all of the manufactures here in this economy. Getting the endorsements and insurance required hours to make it more beneficial for an employer to hire pilot A vs pilot B without incurring additional cost is a big deal for schools and small tour companies. They simply can't afford to spend the money on you. The big boys will pay to train you in their model of choice. Competition here is skill/decision making, not hours.

 

Is flying the R44 going to make me "stand-out" in an interview post 1500 hours? Hell no.

 

Don't fall into that crap about Robinson pilots make better pilots debate. That's simply not true. I only hear that from pilots that only have robbie time. Its the individual pilot's skills and decision making ability that makes them a good pilot. Not some manufacture.

 

-john

[IceWater]

Wow, maybe I should revise my last post.

 

"Does R44 time matter when going for your first non-CFI job?"

 

No it doesn't. My apologies if my last post was confusing.

[Goldy]

While I dont disagree, who has an easier time transitioning to the Bell 206?

 

A. A pilot with 500 hours of R22 time

 

B. A pilot with 400 hours of R22 time and 100 hours of R44 time.

[Azhigher]

Nope. It's money you'll spend and never recoup.

 

If you have a CFI job already lined up, forget it.

[Guest Maximinious]

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Edited August 13, 2010 by Maximinious

[rick1128]

Thanks for all of the great responses! I should be done with my training in the next few weeks and then I will probably have an interview with the school that I am currently training at. I am in no rush to get to my first "real job"... for now....I would be grateful to be an instructor because I truly enjoy teaching.

 

As far as searching for a cheaper 44 rate....

I am sure there is cheaper R-44 time out there but I have chosen to remain loyal to my school even if the rate isn't the cheapest. If I spring for 44 time it will be at home base.

 

My school has both R-22 instrument trainer and R-44 instrument trainer. Not having the R-44 time might hurt me for my interview at the school, but I really can't afford it. Post instructor- the majority said that it won't hurt if you don't have R-44 time (unless the job is flying R-44's of course). I already have 10 hours and it would seem like a waste at this point not to get the remaining 15 hours. But I have chosen to complete the 15 hours down the road when I start making money as an instructor (that is...if I am lucky enough to score a job).

 

Thanks for your replies, they were very helpful.

 

I would concentrate on getting your 200 hours so you can instruct. If you already have your CFI, but still short on hours, I would suggest that you work on your Instrument (if you do not have it yet) and your CFII. Get as much out of the flight time you have to have as you can. Make every dollar count. Keep in mind that many schools give discounts to their employees. Plus if you already have the PIC signoff, there are always MX flights, ferry flights and a$$ and trash flights.