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NHR, close call anyone?..


1badz32
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1500 feet horizontally and 300 feet vertically... I wouldn't exactly call that hair-raising. More like aggravating.

 

To be honest I'm quite sure many of us here have had much closer calls than that. I've been close enough, twice, to see the expression on people's faces as they whizzed right past me while not listening to the CTAF.

 

I will say though... it is amazing he got that close and blew through controlled airspace like that. If he managed to get that close to big iron, I'm sure he's scared a few smaller starch-wingers with closer calls. Seems like yanking his certs might not be a bad thing.

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1500 feet horizontally and 300 feet vertically... I wouldn't exactly call that hair-raising. More like aggravating.

 

Okay, so I'm never playing chicken with you.

 

If they were 1500 feet apart with the jet moving at 200 knots and the Cessna tooling along at 90 knots, that gives a closing speed of 290 knots (right?). They would have been within 0.25 NM of each other, and at that closing speed, they were about 3 seconds from a MAC.

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I have flown that transition route many times. I have also had to divert a bit to accommodate for the heavy jets taking off on 28, and I have to say that's its hard to imagine this happening.

 

This transition is so common that both pilots had to be aware of each other, and I'm not very good at judging horizontal distance, but when I pass by these jets, they don't seem all that far away.

 

When I heard the report last night, my first thought was that the jets collision warning system was perhaps a little off, and maybe they're making more of this than there actually is?

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Okay, so I'm never playing chicken with you.

 

If they were 1500 feet apart with the jet moving at 200 knots and the Cessna tooling along at 90 knots, that gives a closing speed of 290 knots (right?). They would have been within 0.25 NM of each other, and at that closing speed, they were about 3 seconds from a MAC.

 

:lol: You know, that thought did enter into my mind. Unfortunately it entered my mind after I posted and had to leave and take care of some things. I guess I just fixated on the distance at first. Either way, it's never fun when you have a surprise formation flight.

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would have been within 0.25 NM of each other, and at that closing speed, they were about 3 seconds from a MAC.

 

How do you miss something that big coming up at you? They say they were at 1100 feet? Way too low for big iron to take any evasive action. Listening to the ATC radio it sure sounds like it was 99% ATC issue. Both pilots should have known the other was there just by listening to the radio and figuring out where everyone is. It's an exercise not everyone takes the time to do I know.

 

Maybe ATC couldn't see the scope because his kid was on his lap? Just saying.....

 

 

Fly safe,

 

Goldy

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From my armchair.

 

If you listen carefully to the recording, you’ll notice the female controller stutter on her initial release of triple-889. This is a clue to her experience level and certainly not what you’d normally expect to hear from an SFO controller –EVER…… The fact that the male controller took over is another clue the female was probably in training.

 

It’s already been said, 1500 feet horizontally and 300 feet vertically is no biggie and no, there is no indication this was a “head-on” incident. In fact, in this area, transitioning traffic is usually approaching the departing traffic from the 3 or 9 o’clock position so the “rate-of-closure” thing is a nonfactor. Add this with the Cessna aircraft being advised to “maintain visual separation” is another element lost in translation by the media. As far as TCAS, ours is constantly reminding us of traffic even though there is no possibility of a collision. Furthermore, to say a TCAS alert is enough to warrant a phone call is suspicious in itself..

 

And, let’s not forget the whole reason why this was reported in the first place i.e. the overzealous United Pilot…… Probably, something went amiss in the cockpit (ignored or forgot the report of the Cessna so its presents startled her). Then her ego got the best of her which was evident by the “we-need-to-talk” statement (no doubt other contributing statements caught on the cockpit voice recorder). Couple all of these elements together and the only avenue for the United Pilot to save face is to report it (“this non-incident wasn’t my fault”).

 

Lastly, the all-to-common media report terminology; “very close call”, “spring into action”, “avoid a deadly collision” and “freighting moments”. I guess it was a slow news day in the Bay……

Edited by Spike
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I have to agree with Spike. This seems like much ado about nothing. It may certainly be a lot closer than what would normally be considered "normal". We often work call close to the final at SNA, and generally do so without any issue. I have had one incident where a Southwest pilot got freaked out because I set of a "TCAS alert", and he went around. I was AT LEAST a half mile west of him, in a tight orbit over a call. The tower had both of us in sight, I reported I had the Southwest jet in sight, and I would maintain visual separation. He still freaked out. My suspicion is that he never had me in sight until he was abeam me about a half mile away and he got pretty indignant about it. He told the tower I was "in a left turn, coming right at us" (I was in a tight left orbit).

 

The tower knew that was not the case, and they seemed pretty surprised that he chose to go around.

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I like the emphasis: JUST 300 FEET APART

vertically, that is - and 1500 feet horizontally

 

 

That's like saying I nearly got run over by the subway once, luckily I was on the street and the train was in a tunnel below me, one block over.

 

 

A major screw up? Obviously.

But a deadly near-miss avoided by the pilot's split second reaction? Come on.

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