Embry-riddle carry more weight than uvu?

[bobbycreager943]

I'm contemplating a degree in aviation business.

 

I'm finishing up some general requirements at a community college in my home town.

 

Does anyone know if going to embry riddle over UVU carries its weight??? Do more companies recognize embry-riddle over UVU or would they get you the same salary in the end???

[ADRidge]

I'm no expert, and I haven't stayed at a holiday inn express since heli-expo, but I really don't think it'll matter much either way. In my experience, it's the type of flight time and the environments you're comfortable with that will land you a job. I could be way off base, but I don't think so.

[permison]

Actaully in the fixed wing world having done your flight training with Embry Riddle is not looked upon highly at some companies. I know one company that actually has a policy to not hire anyone who had trained there. It's not public but I know the owner of the company and he can't stand the place. Says all the guys that come out of there "can't fly for shat" his words not mine. He's not a bit player in the industry so he would know.

 

I always wanted to attend ER in Daytona but now I am glad I didn't. Saved a ton of money too.

 

I don't attend either school but you'll pay big bucks to attend ER and I think you would get the same training at UVU without the expense.

 

I can put you in touch with a grad of ER if you want to ask him some questions but over drinks a few times he has said he would have done it differently.

[Shaun]

What is your career goal specifically?

[bobbycreager943]

Sorry----I should have specified. My ultimate career goal is to become a helo pilot.....as a backup i want to stay in aviation.....say as a FBO operator or something in management around aviation.

[Shaun]

I would not bother with a college degree of any kind. Mine is nothing more then an expensive piece of paper, I could tell an operator about my extensive human factors training and they would reply, "ok how many hours do you have?"

 

Work out the cost of the education, living expenses for the time spent acquiring it, and the extra cost of the aircraft time (I would imagine Riddle charges you more then other schools).

 

Now take that extra cost and divide it by say $150 for R-22 time building, you could by hundreds and hundreds of extra hours, and in the end that's what really matters.

 

It's a shame really, I feel that my 5 years of taking aviation classes have made me a much better pilot, especially in the decision making area, but the industry runs on hours.

 

I would imagine, however, that a business degree in aviation would be very helpful as a backup career, but you could always go back to school if that backup became necessary.

 

It was, also, really easy for me to get loans for a college based aviation program, but you have to pay that back and the monthly payments can be massive, don't get stuck with huge loan payments and no job after training.

[kodoz]

...I feel that my 5 years of taking aviation classes have made me a much better pilot, especially in the decision making area, but the industry runs on hours.

 

...a business degree in aviation would be very helpful as a backup career, but you could always go back to school if that backup became necessary.

 

A couple of things here, all hypothetical:

 

2 pilots, same hours, one with a degree and one without. You say that your degree made you a better pilot, and I bet an employer would recognize that (and I've talked with one GOM HR recruiter that would agree).

 

Another scenario, pure fantasy. You own a small shop and need your employees to be multi-talented. In front of you are 2 resumes, one from a guy with a business degree and another with a few more hours but no degree. Who is going to be the better employee for you?

 

I also know a more than one flight school owner that, even though they look within for CFI candidates first, they do look at your educational and life experience. In this market, there are too many CFIs milling around for that to make a difference in most situations. A year (plus...) ago when there weren't several good internal candidates to pick from, college experience or other marketable skills could get you a callback.

 

Degree or no degree is a perennial question. You are correct that hours dominate all else, but the advantages of having a degree in your back pocket, I think, outweigh the time and money spent getting it. [link]

[Trans Lift]

I don't have a degree and it hasn't made any difference. I have got some good life experience such as being on a mountain rescue team, boat captain, lifeguard, military etc etc. This stuff has served me better than a degree ever could.

[apiaguy]

except learning how to form correct sentence structure....

"I have got some good life experience..."

[Eggbeater]

except learning how to form correct sentence structure....

"I have got some good life experience..."

You beat me to it.

[permison]

Let me throw this into the discussion about having a degree. I "HIGHLY" recommend your backup plan be outside of aviation. There are considerably less jobs available for FBO managers, schedulers, and all the other jobs that go into keeping us in the air. With the exception of mechanics who are always in high demand, having a fall back career outside of aviation gives you a serious get out of jail free card. When they lay off pilots how many of the support personnel go with them. How many aviation managers do you think there are per number of pilots. How about schedulers? Learn to program or cook or fix cars and you will always have some place to fall to when the usual aviation cycle starts it's descent. I am amazed at the amount of people who specialize in a particular area and when that plan fails they stand around saying "But I did everything right!". Best advice I ever heard was "You can do everything right and still fail, plan for failure and expect success". If you don't acknowledge the potential for failure and plan for it. When it happens most people stand around with their thumb up their butt saying what did I do wrong? If you plan for a failure you already know what to expect and what to do about it.

[Trans Lift]

except learning how to form correct sentence structure....

 

Yeah, that was a pretty bad grammatical error. Damn it! Maybe I should go get a degree...

Edited April 2, 2010 by Trans Lift

[helistar]

My suggestion would be to visit the schools your interested in attending... Embry-Riddle produces more military pilots then any other college except the air force academy, so to answer your question, it just depends on how you want to go about reaching the hours required to make a living flying helicopters... Retiring in your forties after twenty years in the military and starting a second career has a lot of advantages... full medical for you and family, plus a nice monthly pay check that will always be paid on time...

 

Also one more suggestion... Don't ever plan for failure.... Always plan for success, and make sure you have a backup plan...

[Tom22]

Bobby,

 

Checkout the exhibitor list from the last career expo for those companies that do look highly upon ERAU graduates.

 

http://www.erau.edu/career/expo/index.html

[kodoz]

Checkout the exhibitor list from the last career expo for those companies that do look highly upon ERAU graduates.

 

I'm going to be a jerk (sorry in advance):

 

I didn't see AirLog/Bristow, RLC, Temsco, Papillion, Maverick, Coastal, or any other helicopter companies that I recognized who would hire a

[permison]

You know I am not sure ER even has a rotorcraft program. They don't show any helicopters in thier fleet. http://www.erau.edu/about/facts-figures/ai...simulators.html

[Tom22]

I think my response is consistent with Bobby’s inquires.

[permison]

Also one more suggestion... Don't ever plan for failure.... Always plan for success, and make sure you have a backup plan...

 

Helistar,

Well since you called me out on it. I don't know what your experience is and I don't know what your instruction has been like but......

 

1. When you are flying do you constantly look for a landing spot or just expect that engine to keep running for you?

 

2. Are your hands always near or on the controls in the case of engine failure so you can immediately enter an auto?

 

3. Do you file a flight plan every time you fly cross-country so someone knows when you don't show up at your destination someone knows where to look for the crash?

 

4. Do you plan your route near airports when flying cross-country so in case you have an issue you can land where you can get help?

 

How is this not planning for failure? What planning for failure gives you is advanced notice of what a failure is and the steps to resolve it "in advance". Look at the emergency procedures of your training aircraft. This is planning for failure. Know what to expect and what to do when a failure happens. If you don't do this, when a failure happens your not sitting there with your thumb up your butt trying to figure out what the hell went wrong and what you need to do about it.

 

If you are not doing 1 through 4 every single flight than I highly suggest you have a polite but firm talk with your instructor.

 

FYI a "backup plan" is something to do instead. Like driving instead of flying.

 

Edited for spelling

Edited April 2, 2010 by permison

[permison]

I think my response is consistent with Bobby’s inquires.

 

Good point! Bobby never said anything here about flying helicopters just getting a BS in Aviation We all (er...most of us) just seemed to assume he wanted to fly helicopters since this is a helicopter specific discussion board. Talk about a failure of attention to detail.

 

I'd like to change my answer if I may. Outside of actually "flying", ER is a "VERY" respected school for aviation. It will not help much if you are looking to sit up front but if you want to run the show from a desk at corporate headquarters you will not find a better place to learn the business of aviation.

[bobbycreager943]

Yes that is what I wanted to know. In case one day I get my medical yanked or something along those lines I really wouldn't want to leave aviation all together. I'd want to pursue something in the field. Something with a business focus to it. Here's the real question. If I have a BS in aviation business administration, could this even be used in the world outside of aviation? It seem's to really be a BS in business administration with a focus on aviation. Anybody?

[kodoz]

Yes that is what I wanted to know. In case one day I get my medical yanked or something along those lines I really wouldn't want to leave aviation all together. I'd want to pursue something in the field. Something with a business focus to it. Here's the real question. If I have a BS in aviation business administration, could this even be used in the world outside of aviation? It seem's to really be a BS in business administration with a focus on aviation. Anybody?

 

Many times, the specific degree doesn't necessarily qualify you for a specific job. It says you have training in a specific area, but it's up to you to see how your combination of education and experience fits a particular position.

 

My example: My education was in biology (mostly bacteria and flies). When I got into school, I had no ambition to get into medicine, forecasting economic models, or writing about that stuff, and no specific training to prep me for it either. But I needed a job afterward and made the case that I could read medical papers, explain science stuff, write coherently about it, use MS Excel, and could be trained to do the economic forecasting bit. My first job out of school was writing market research papers for oncology companies, despite my complete lack of training in any of those subjects.

 

So yeah, I think the degree is going to be a benefit if you pursue helicopters, airplanes, or something having to do with neither. If you need to get out of aviation, having the degree will help you make the case that you can do jobs that don't have to do with aviation.

 

Also, when I started in the pharma industry, all you needed was a Bachelor's degree. Now there's a glut of science-trained PhDs on the market. Since companies can get them, PhDs have become the minimum entry requirement. Times change, and even though you didn't need a college degree to get into aviation in the past or even today, it's a good hedge for changes in the industry and your career ambitions.

[helistar]

I've never seen a plan for failure book...

Your argument is to plan for failure? Why not plan for success and know what ALL your options are by insuring your prepared for any and all circumstances? In other words ALWAYS Plan for Success, because anything less could result in not only the loss of an aircraft, but the loss of life... If you want to argue that point be my guest... Unlike you, I don't consider failure an option... Lets say something does happen en-route and I'm forced to land, what just happened was I was prepared to successfully save the aircraft and the lives of those on board as a result of my planning for success... I hate to remind you, but failure does mean you failed to succeed, which means you most likely died...

 

 

 

 

 

Helistar,

Well since you called me out on it. I don't know what your experience is and I don't know what your instruction has been like but......

 

1. When you are flying do you constantly look for a landing spot or just expect that engine to keep running for you?

 

2. Are your hands always near or on the controls in the case of engine failure so you can immediately enter an auto?

 

3. Do you file a flight plan every time you fly cross-country so someone knows when you don't show up at your destination someone knows where to look for the crash?

 

4. Do you plan your route near airports when flying cross-country so in case you have an issue you can land where you can get help?

 

How is this not planning for failure? What planning for failure gives you is advanced notice of what a failure is and the steps to resolve it "in advance". Look at the emergency procedures of your training aircraft. This is planning for failure. Know what to expect and what to do when a failure happens. If you don't do this, when a failure happens your not sitting there with your thumb up your butt trying to figure out what the hell went wrong and what you need to do about it.

 

If you are not doing 1 through 4 every single flight than I highly suggest you have a polite but firm talk with your instructor.

 

FYI a "backup plan" is something to do instead. Like driving instead of flying.

 

Edited for spelling

[permison]

I've never seen a plan for failure book...

Your argument is to plan for failure? Why not plan for success and know what ALL your options are by insuring your prepared for any and all circumstances? In other words ALWAYS Plan for Success, because anything less could result in not only the loss of an aircraft, but the loss of life... If you want to argue that point be my guest... Unlike you, I don't consider failure an option... Lets say something does happen en-route and I'm forced to land, what just happened was I was prepared to successfully save the aircraft and the lives of those on board as a result of my planning for success... I hate to remind you, but failure does mean you failed to succeed, which means you most likely died...

 

 

Dude,

My argument is not plan to fail, it's to expect it and plan for it. That is planning for success. It's having a go to hell plan when things don't go the way you want them to which happens to everyone.

 

Plan for failure expect success, is a management concept that has been around far longer than you and I. It was taught at Harvard business school and in the military for years (and probably still is). I think even Sun Tzu even talked about it. Go look up the term. I am sure there is a Harvard business school paper on it somewhere. Basically it teaches that good management is planning for the worst case scenario not the best.

 

Besides you're splitting hairs here and not making a lot of sense. I would be happy to compare resumes, logbooks and penis sizes outside this thread but lets not hijack a good thread like trolls.

[helistar]

I'm impressed... You send me a pm attempting to bully me with threats... Here's the facts... You told some one seeking advise "to plan for failure" I then suggested they "Plan for Success" and you've since become upset and now are sending me a pm touting what a great COO you were outside of aviation and threaten any potential future employment I might have in this industry because you now have a commercial helicopter license...

Let me help you with your quote from Harvard Business "Failure to Plan = Planning to Fail" and in case you have a problem comprehending the definition, it simply means "Plan for Success"

 

So if you think you have the power to black list me because I won't follow your "plan for failure" go for it...

 

And since you love quotes so much here's one you should really enjoy...

"What a distressing contrast there is between the radiant intelligence of the child and the feeble mentality of the average adult."

Sigmund Freud

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dude,

My argument is not plan to fail, it's to expect it and plan for it. That is planning for success. It's having a go to hell plan when things don't go the way you want them to which happens to everyone.

 

Plan for failure expect success, is a management concept that has been around far longer than you and I. It was taught at Harvard business school and in the military for years (and probably still is). I think even Sun Tzu even talked about it. Go look up the term. I am sure there is a Harvard business school paper on it somewhere. Basically it teaches that good management is planning for the worst case scenario not the best.

 

Besides you're splitting hairs here and not making a lot of sense. I would be happy to compare resumes, logbooks and penis sizes outside this thread but lets not hijack a good thread like trolls.

Edited April 3, 2010 by helistar

[DeLtaFoxY]

Yes, ERAU does have a helicopter program (and ABA - or may I suggest ABA with a helicopter minor), at the Prescott Campus. Prescott AZ is very high up >5000 feet; you will not lack all the desirable training others have said they have in place of a degree. And flight schools are empty because students are unable to get the big loans they need, well at ERAU it's part of your degree program [but not in the ABA degree] so there are real student loans available, not the higher than a credit card interest rate-start paying right away-kind of loans.