Los Angeles TFR

[JDHelicopterPilot]

A lot of us fly in or around Los Angeles. Obama is coming to town along with a TFR on Monday and Tuesday.

[brushfire21]

I feel for everyone in the LA Area

[JDHelicopterPilot]

I feel for everyone in the LA Area

 

 

At least the TFR doesn't start until 1701 local on monday and is over around 1100 Tuesday. Guess he won't be in town to long....

[arotrhd]

Guess he won't be in town to long....

 

Just long enough to do a few more hundred Million dollars in damage to our local economy.

 

-WATCH FOR THE PATTERNS, WATCH FOR THE WIRES-

[Rick McWilliams]

All TFR's cause economic damage. This is one of the few things that the president can directly and immediately change to improve the economy. I had thought that GWB was the only a**hole who would do that kind of sh*t.

[EC120AV8R]

All TFR's cause economic damage. This is one of the few things that the president can directly and immediately change to improve the economy. I had thought that GWB was the only a**hole who would do that kind of sh*t.

 

Seriously? There is always a presidential TFR for 30nm around wherever the sitting president happens to fly in to. It's not a surprise and It's not something that was started by W. We knew it would only get worse with this president. We were told by the Secret Service that we would see more security around the current president than any other in the past. They have been true to their word.

 

As long as you want to bash the most recent past president, you might want to take a poke at Clinton. Remember when he held up everybody, while he got a haircut aboard Air Force One on the tarmac at LAX? That seems like a pretty "a**hole" move to me (to use your word). Can't remember W doing anything like that.

[Rick McWilliams]

The economic damage of a TFR is independent of the character of the president. The president could change that at any time. I know that Clinton did several trips fishing in Mexico. No TFR there, and no warships. He fished from a panga like everybody else. TFRs screw up aviation.

[EC120AV8R]

The economic damage of a TFR is independent of the character of the president. The president could change that at any time. I know that Clinton did several trips fishing in Mexico. No TFR there, and no warships. He fished from a panga like everybody else. TFRs screw up aviation.

 

What authority do we have to impose a TFR in a foreign country (Mexico)? Ummmm....none. Yes, a TFR can impact the local economy to some extent. However, even if the president could sign an executive order to do away with what is a regulatory requirement by public law, I don't think he would. The president takes his security advice from the Secret Service. If they are telling him that they can not ensure his safethy without a TFR, it is unlikely he is going to go against their professional advice.

 

Of course they don't take the overall impact on the local economy into account when a presidential TFR goes up. That was clear when he was on vacation in Hawaii. It did definitely impact the local tour business. However, the impact to the overall national economy is probably immeasurable. I think to say it will do hundreds of millions of dollars for an 18 hour TFR is absurd. As long as an aircraft is on an IFR flight plan, it will still be able to operate out of, into or through the TFR. I don't think the handful of VFR revenue generating operations will suffer hundreds of millions of dollars in damages in 18 hours.

 

TFRs are a pain in the ass, but they are a fact of life.

[Inferno]

Thanks for bringing some rationality to this discussion EC120....

[Rick McWilliams]

I think that the economic damage caused by a TFR is of the order of $4 million per day. Businesses like flight schools, tour operators, agricultural operators, FBOs have direct losses. ATC has far fewer operations and is thus mostly wasted cost. Private pilots lose another opportunity for flight experience. RC model flight is prohibited. Flight outside the TFR area is curtailed because the TFR could move unexpectedly.

 

The economy in LA is not doing very well, so small effects can combine to make the problem worse.

[EC120AV8R]

I think that the economic damage caused by a TFR is of the order of $4 million per day. Businesses like flight schools, tour operators, agricultural operators, FBOs have direct losses. ATC has far fewer operations and is thus mostly wasted cost. Private pilots lose another opportunity for flight experience. RC model flight is prohibited. Flight outside the TFR area is curtailed because the TFR could move unexpectedly.

 

The economy in LA is not doing very well, so small effects can combine to make the problem worse.

 

I would like to say you make a convincing argument, but you really don't. It's a matter of protecting our leader. It's one of life's minor inconveniences. The fact that a private pilot loses out on some experience for a day...seriously? Should the private pilot piss and moan every time he can't fly and misses out on experience for days on end due to IMC?

 

Yes some flight schools lost a day's worth of revenue, some VFR only operators (ENG, Ag, tour etc.) lost a day's worth of revenue. It's one day. As for the RC modelers...are you kidding me? So what? It's a hobby, what have they lost?

 

Again, it's a matter of protecting our president. If you want to put up a GOOD argument, then the discussion should be regarding the impact a multi-day TFR has. Such as pretty much closing down the entire island when the president was on vacation in Hawaii. Now there's a topic. How can we come to some compromise there? The fact of the matter, is there are really bad people in the world, who would do us and/or our president harm. We would be remiss not to afford the maximum amount of protection we can based on the input from the experts that provide that protection.

[Goldy]

I wrote a couple paragraphs, but its not a healthy discussion, and might be too revealing for the guys with the tiny gold badges...so we'll leave it at that.

 

The feds have but one job and that is protection. Nothing else matters or is even considered.....and thats how it should be. While I hate TFR's and the economic impacts, which I agree are significant, there is just no other way to minimize threats.

 

Goldy