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I've been spending a lot of time debating all the ways I could become an EMS pilot, and I think I have finally decided. I just would like to get some more feedback first.

 

I have come to the realization that I will not be able to pay for flight school without suffering for quite some time, and then having to fight for a job I may or may not get. I could make it happen, but I would not be able to focus solely on flying, and I don't like that.

 

So, I have semi-committed on the idea of going into the Army. I would like to go to college for a few years (personal preference, not because I think I need a degree first, even though I think it would help) before I sign up, but I still am not completely sure. I just want to get some opinions and make sure that the Army would be the best way or is there another military branch that would be better?

 

I know that any form of military requires commitment and a contract, and the dangers. But if I want to live out my dream, I believe that is going to have to be the chance I take.

 

Any help is appreciated.

Edited by eaw913
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You should check out the WOFT program, I think it allows you to apply to the flight program before enlisting?

 

You should definitly go to college. Even in the military, flying is still a long, hard road, and its good to have a backup plan. ;)

 

You may also want to try and get your Private before making any final decisions(just to make sure flying is something you can/really want to do). There is a huge difference between being a pilot, and being a career pilot(you may not enjoy it enough)? :huh:

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You might want to consider ROTC. One of my girlfriends did it. If you commit they pay for college but the first year or two you can take the classes with no commitment and no pay and decide if it's for you. You graduate an officer. It worked for her.

Karl

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I don't know much about military training so someone correct me if I am wrong.

 

I trained ROTC students who received a college degree while doing flight training, from my understanding you wont fly as much as a warrant officer, but it was still sweet.

 

Or you could go to college after and have the army pay for it with the GI bill.

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The last I heard the Army preferred that the applicants had at least a year of college. From what I have been told they feed you so much information, its like trying to drink from three fire hoses. So very good time management and study habits are mandatory. If you want to fly, become a warrant. As a commissioned officer, your primary job is not flying, its being an officer and the BS that goes with it. Being a warrant is the best deal, your job is to fly. Additional assigned duties are things like training, standardization and operations. As for becoming an EMS pilot, the army has something quite similar called Medevacs. Plus you get NVG training, high DA training and experience, etc. Plus all sorts of training that is available. Some colleges used to give college credit for your flight training and the other training you got in the army and the army had a program called bootstrap. Where they would pay for you to take college courses. I ran across a few guys in Afghanistan doing online college courses, mostly to kill time. They had to do something to keep from going crazy. No bars, no booze, no hookers, what kind of army post is that!

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You should check out the WOFT program, I think it allows you to apply to the flight program before enlisting?

 

You should definitly go to college. Even in the military, flying is still a long, hard road, and its good to have a backup plan. ;)

 

You may also want to try and get your Private before making any final decisions(just to make sure flying is something you can/really want to do). There is a huge difference between being a pilot, and being a career pilot(you may not enjoy it enough)? :huh:

 

Yeah I heard about that. I looked up some information, but I still know hardly anything about it. I just want to take the best route to becoming a helicopter pilot. I don't want to enlist and be sent into something I don't want to do and waste 10 years.

 

I have already taken quite a few lessons, and believe me. It is something I want to do ;)

 

 

You might want to consider ROTC. One of my girlfriends did it. If you commit they pay for college but the first year or two you can take the classes with no commitment and no pay and decide if it's for you. You graduate an officer. It worked for her.

Karl

 

ROTC in high school or in college?

 

The last I heard the Army preferred that the applicants had at least a year of college. From what I have been told they feed you so much information, its like trying to drink from three fire hoses. So very good time management and study habits are mandatory. If you want to fly, become a warrant. As a commissioned officer, your primary job is not flying, its being an officer and the BS that goes with it. Being a warrant is the best deal, your job is to fly. Additional assigned duties are things like training, standardization and operations. As for becoming an EMS pilot, the army has something quite similar called Medevacs. Plus you get NVG training, high DA training and experience, etc. Plus all sorts of training that is available. Some colleges used to give college credit for your flight training and the other training you got in the army and the army had a program called bootstrap. Where they would pay for you to take college courses. I ran across a few guys in Afghanistan doing online college courses, mostly to kill time. They had to do something to keep from going crazy. No bars, no booze, no hookers, what kind of army post is that!

 

Thanks. This is a lot of good information. I know I need to do the warrant path, that way I can focus solely on flying. And I assume I would be specializing in flying UH-60 Blackhawks, as it is the closest relation to flying EMS (medevac and crew transport). I will also have to look up the information on taking courses while in.

 

Also, as said before, I just want to take whatever route will get me flying the most. I will do anything necessary just to be able to fly.

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Yeah I heard about that. I looked up some information, but I still know hardly anything about it. I just want to take the best route to becoming a helicopter pilot. I don't want to enlist and be sent into something I don't want to do and waste 10 years.

 

I have already taken quite a few lessons, and believe me. It is something I want to do ;)

 

 

 

 

ROTC in high school or in college?

 

 

 

Thanks. This is a lot of good information. I know I need to do the warrant path, that way I can focus solely on flying. And I assume I would be specializing in flying UH-60 Blackhawks, as it is the closest relation to flying EMS (medevac and crew transport). I will also have to look up the information on taking courses while in.

 

Also, as said before, I just want to take whatever route will get me flying the most. I will do anything necessary just to be able to fly.

 

Let me preface this by saying that anything I have to say should be verified as I could have been misinformed by recruiters or info I found online.

 

I looked into applying for WOFT extensively before being turned down for pre-existing medical conditions that have long since gone away. I'm not sure how far down that path you've researched, but there is much to learn. Before you do anything, I would find the regulations for 1st class medical exams you must pass. You essentially have to be a perfect medical specimen with absolutely no medical history to speak of. Things like chronic rhinitis (aka stuffy nose), allergies, etc. can auto-disqualify you before you even get started, let alone if you've had any major issues in the past, regardless of if they've cleared up for many years. Also, you cannot have a criminal record, a bad credit report or anything that will cause you not to fail the application for SECRET security clearance that all pilots must have. That application is handled by the FBI and if there's something to be found, bet that they will find it.

 

Also, since you can apply for Army WOFT as a civilian, you do not enlist until after you've been accepted. With the Guard, you enlist then apply and if you're turned down, you're stuck doing whatever MOS (job) they decide you're best for. Also, again, from what I gathered, if you apply as a civilian, the slots are few and you will most likely need some college if not at least a Bachelors. A private license in FW or RW is a big bonus.

 

From what I gathered, the process being such a huge pain in the ass is somewhat of a test to see how bad you really want it. If you're only in it to get some free flight training, I'd take a real hard look at yourself and what you're required to do to become a pilot. You're looking at 8 weeks of basic training, 8 weeks of Warrant Officer training (basic training on steroids which includes SERE training) and up to 2 years of flight training (the good part). THEN your 6 year enlistment period begins once you get your wings. You'll most likely be deployed every other year for 12-15 months at a time. The best way to learn more about life as an Army aviator is to find the nearest Army or Guard aviation unit and try to make some contacts. Don't be afraid to talk to a recruiter, but take everything they say with a grain of salt as many of them are under intense pressure to get you to sign so that they can meet their quotas. They will flat out lie to you to get you to sign. They will tell you to lie about any medical history you have that would get you disqualified. Unfortunately, if you do and get caught, you are on the hook (dishonorably discharged and eligible for a felony conviction for lying on your application), not them. In the past, when medical records were hard to find unless you volunteered the information, people got away with this. Now that most medical records are part of a national database for insurers, it's a lot easier to get caught. Luckily, I have a family member who is a Guard recruiter that I could trust. Long story short, be very, very cynical and verify everything thrice.

 

Also, you mentioned having your heart set on Medevac. Unfortunately, it doesn't quite work that way in the Army. If you manage to get accepted into WOFT, your scores during WOFT (which also include physical fitness scores) determine your "rank" in your class. When your class finishes, there will be X number of slots per airframe available. You choose which airframe you would like in order of your class rank. So, if you're at the top of your class, you get to pick first. However, if you happen to come out of training when there are no UH-60 slots (unlikely as I believe UH-60 are one of the more common slots) or if you aren't ranked high in your class, you may be forced to pick a different airframe. You could end up in an AH-64 or a CH-47 through no fault of your own. Also, even if you end up in a UH-60, you could be assigned to a non-medevac role.

 

All of that being said, don't let all of this run you off of the idea. Even after all of this, I was still was ready to sign if they would accept me. Unfortunately, they won't so I'm now looking at civilian options, which may actually be a better fit for me anyway. The military path is a long, tough road but it could be the best thing for the right person. After you really dig into it and see what you're dealing with, it may be a great fit for you. Most all of the pilots I spoke with have said they can't imagine doing anything else and do not regret the hell they had to go through to get their wings and serve their country. That alone says more than I could ever say here.

 

I could go on and on about the process but it's all out there already. I'd suggest you start googling WOFT and hitting the military aviation forums.

Edited by CrashC
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I know for fact the Army doesn't offer guaranteed flying positions after completing a college ROTC program. So make sure you read everything available to you and listen to those that have ventured down this path before you. There's nothing wrong with a career as a military aviator, in fact it's a very rewarding career that will open a lot of doors for you in the future.

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eaw913:

 

I am currently in the process of applying for the Army's Warrant Officer Flight Training program. Here is something I typed up for my fellow applicants. It is a summation of the process, as per the information I have gathered. I hope it helps.

 

UNITED STATES ARMY – WARRANT OFFICER FLIGHT TRAINING

Flying for the U.S. Army is rather unique: all new aviators fly rotary-wing aircraft. While the Army does have several fixed-wing aircraft in its inventory, these are limited to seasoned and experienced aviators. Secondly, the Army is unique because Warrant Officer Flight Training (WOFT) contains a program casually called “street-to-seat” or “high-school-to-flight-school.” Civilians (college degree not required) may apply for this program. If selected, you sign a contract. If not selected, you have no obligation to the Army and are still a civilian. Sound easy? It’s not.

The WOFT Application Process works to eliminate those without the motivation to follow through. It is stressful, there are many components, and if flying for the Army is not something you really want to do, this is probably the time when you’ll figure that out…unless somehow everything works out perfectly for you. If so, I’m jealous.

 

As a civilian, the WOFT Packet consists of the following components:

ASVAB: Minimum 110 GT Score required. I used the ARCO book and got a 99 AFQT/139 GT Score, but apparently ASVAB for Dummies is highly recommended by many. Seriously.

AFAST: Minimum score of 90 required. Use the ARCO book, not the Barron’s book to study. Barron’s has entirely too many incorrect answers. I used ARCO and the FAA Rotorcraft Flight Manual, and scored a 140. I didn't really use any other study materials, though I did study my ass off.

MEPS Physical: Your recruiter will schedule this for you, most likely in conjunction with your ASVAB test. Try to get this done as early into your application process as possible, so that you know if you are disqualified for something like color-blindness, which is non-waiverable for potential aviators.

Class 1A Flight Physical: While it is easier for your recruiter to schedule this, it is possible for you as a civilian to do it. If you have a lazy recruiter, track down the number of the local Army flight surgeon that would perform the flight physical. Note: this is NOT the same physical given by FAA-certified flight physicians (read: the civilian version will not replace the Army physical).

APFT: You must pass, but to be competitive, you must score very well. Utilize Google to find the most recent standards, paying attention to your gender and age categories.

Letters of Recommendation: For civilian applicants, a minimum of three and a maximum of six are required. The general rule is to select a combination of people who know you very well and can speak to your maturity, responsibility, and leadership abilities, and people who are in a high position of relevant authority. Ideally, these people would be one and the same, i.e. an Army Colonel you have known for 10 years. However, if you are like me and did not know anyone like that, do not be afraid to get into contact with an Army Aviator and ask them politely if they would be willing to interview you and perhaps write a Letter of Recommendation. Quite a few applicants do this; just make sure that not all of your Letters of Recommendation are of this nature.

Resume: This is your chance to shine and list your accomplishments without appearing like you are bragging. The resume is something you can start early and simply add to as you progress throughout high school and/or college. Take advantage of this time and do some unique and worthwhile things; they will help your resume stand out from the rest.

Why I Want to be an Army Aviator” Essay: Straightforward: answer the question. 1 page. Write it early and simply edit it as time goes by.

¾ Length Photo: Don’t worry about this until the end of the application process. Ask your recruiter for details.

Educational Transcripts: The board will want official transcripts from high school through your most recent education level (i.e. Bachelors, etc). Obtain these ASAP so you don’t have to worry about it. This is also a hint that the board will look at your GPA, so be prepared to explain a low GPA, or you could always just focus on getting a solid one.

Professional Certificates/Flight Log (if applicable): If you have your Private Pilot’s License, are EMT-B certified, or something similar, include copies of your certificates. If you have logged significant flight time, make crisp and clear copies of your flight log.

SF-86 Form / Interim Secret Security Clearance: Your recruiter will have you fill out the computerized SF-86 form sometime during the process. This form asks you of your past history, and requires you list a lot of contacts/references as well as addresses of places you have lived and worked. Make it easier by printing out a copy of the SF-86 (easily available online) early on in the process and filling it out ahead of time, so you aren’t stressing out in the recruiter’s office because you can’t remember the address of a place you worked at five years ago.

Battalion Board Interview: This is the last major step in the process. Once your packet is completed, you will go before a “local” battalion board and they will interview you. Be prepared to answer standard interview questions (strengths and weaknesses, etc) as well as Army-specific questions (i.e. why do you want to be a Warrant Officer, what is your favorite Army value and why). The board will then rate you on a scale of 25 (some of which is based on appearance, apparent confidence level you exude, posture, etc), and send that rating along with the rest of your packet to Warrant Officer Recruiting Headquarters, who evaluates packets once every other month and makes the final decision. If you are selected, congratulations! Your recruiter will schedule you another visit to MEPS where you will find your dates and sign your contract. If you are not selected, you will be classified as either FQ/NS (Fully-qualified/Non-select, meaning your packet was complete but you were just not selected) or NQ/NS (Not-qualified/not-select, which usually means there was an issue with your packet). If FQ/NS, the board will automatically look at your packet again the next month. Again, if selected this time around, congratulations! If not selected, you are a twice non-select and must wait 6 months to reapply. Take that time to either examine other options if you cannot afford to wait for a year, or build up your packet and resume if you are set on this path.

 

Some potential hurdles:

Eyesight: if your vision is worse than 20/50 in either eye or is not correctable to 20/20, you will be medically “disqualified.” There are waivers, so not all hope is lost, but the waivers will not extend to those who have extremely poor vision. If you fall into that latter category (your vision is utterly terrible, as mine was), you have two options: PRK or LASIK eye surgery. I will not tell you which one to pursue, only that in general, the military “prefers” PRK (though the Army accepts both), and that I chose LASIK with incredible results. Research each on your own (and very thoroughly), and if possible consult with an Army flight surgeon to ensure that the surgery you choose is acceptable. Also, make sure you obtain all paperwork required by the Army, as your civilian surgeon will need to fill them out regarding your pre-operative refraction, and post-operative results. This paperwork is required for the eyesight waiver you will put in. You must wait three months after surgery before you are allowed to schedule your Flight Physical.

Hearing:

Color-blindness:

Height:

 

Incorrect/Incomplete packets:

 

Some other routes for getting to WOFT are:

Enlisting and then applying from within

ROTC

OCS (Officer Candidate School): While it is generally easier to get accepted to OCS than to WOFT as a civilian, there are very few (and I mean very, typically one to three at most per OCS class) Aviation slots in OCS, and there is no way to guarantee it. If you choose to go this route, you must be VERY prepared to serve in another capacity/branch of the Army. Do not go this route if you only want to fly. Strongly consider this route if your desire to serve in the United States Army as a Commissioned Officer is paramount to everything else. Keep in mind, however, that Warrant Officer Aviators can always choose to commission later in their careers.

USMA (West Point)

 

One disclaimer:

The process is constantly evolving, so I make no promises that the above information is 100% accurate. Furthermore, as you probably noticed, some of it is incomplete, such as portions of the Class 1A Flight Physical applicants may fail or require a waiver for. I simply have not had the time to look it up again.

 

If the Army route still interests you, I highly recommend scrolling down a bit on the forums to the Military Helicopter section - lots of good info, and a lot of people in your situation also considering the military route. Good luck, think hard about this decision, and do not hesitate to send me a PM or reply here if you have further questions.

 

//Lindsey

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I know that any form of military requires commitment and a contract, and the dangers. But if I want to live out my dream, I believe that is going to have to be the chance I take.

 

 

You seem real set on becoming an AVIATOR. Which is great. But that is only part of what it takes to be a WARRANT OFFICER and serve in the military. You'll be a soldier first, an officer second, and an aviator third.

 

In essense, it requires a commitment and contract that goes beyond signing up for six years once you get your wings. It means being part of something greater than yourself.

 

I'd suggest you read up about the military, and not just military aviators. 'Once An Eagle' by Anton Meyer would be a very good place to start. There are numerous books about flying helicopters in the US Army as well, like 'Low Level Hell', 'Chickenhawk', 'Nightstalkers', and 'Blackhawk Down'/'In The Company of Heroes' touch on the subject--this is just a handful of books.

 

Educate yourself on the profession of arms, and be certain that you're not going in just to pay for flight school. If that is your only reason, then you won't get much satisfaction out of a career or period of service that can be very rewarding. The flying is only there to support the missions.

 

As far as getting accepted goes, I think Lindsey spells it out as well as anyone can. The more you can add to your resume the better chances you'll have.

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So, I have semi-committed on the idea of going into the Army. I would like to go to college for a few years (personal preference, not because I think I need a degree first, even though I think it would help) before I sign up, but I still am not completely sure. I just want to get some opinions and make sure that the Army would be the best way or is there another military branch that would be better?

 

I know that any form of military requires commitment and a contract, and the dangers. But if I want to live out my dream, I believe that is going to have to be the chance I take.

 

 

I wouldn't "semi-commit" to any idea of going in the Army. Sounds to me like your just settling... Also sounds like you & pretty much everyone else on this thread are young, inexperienced, and trying to figure where life will take them. I think you a lot of others on here need a mentor. Maybe the moderators of VR can set something up like that. Honestly in todays world most folks are just trying to get theirs.

 

I will say having been both enlisted (marine corps), commissioned (army), & now a civilian. I would encourage you to do more research and be true to myself. The military can be pretty rough & demanding, but also very rewarding. Like anything in life its what you make of it. If you want to go to college, then go! Its not uncommon for warrants to have a four yr degree. And unless you would like to lead folks I would push the Warrant route. Most Commissioned officers are getting minimum time on the sticks by the time they reach Captain. However they pay/retirement is better.

 

If i didn't have my heart set on the military and lifestyle changes that come with it. I would proably just work and finance my way through flight training. Of course thats not what you want to here, but it the truth.

 

You like most on here are probably in the 20's and feel like they have to make these like altering decisions today, like your out of time or something. The best advice I can give anyone is just enjoy the ride!

 

Lastly 9/10 people will not be doing what they thought they'd be doing 10 yrs from now!

 

Best,

bd

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It is only impossible if you do not try.

 

Well Yoda, I've been trying for several years now, but I guess if it takes 20yrs to get a job, you can still say its not impossible. <_<

 

At least it seems the original poster has time on his side,...he's definitly going to need it!

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My brain is a bit fried today from studying so please forgive me if I have a hard time articulating my thoughts.

 

Whether or not you should join the military is dependent completely upon you. Never let someone else sell you on joining or talk you out of it. If it doesn't feel "right" to you, don't do it!

 

The first thing I can tell you is that the military is a huge commitment. You hear it time and time again I am sure, but you need to internalize that. It is easy to focus on the job aspect of the military, i.e., being an aviator. But there is so much more to military life than your job. I put life in bold because it is a lifestyle change. Some people hate it, some people love it. It depends on your attitude and personality. Just realize that when you sign that line you are not just saying "yeah I'll work for you for 8 years." You are signing that you will accept a new way of life for the next 8 years.

 

The second thing I can tell you is that if you feel the military is the right thing for you (and I don't just mean being a military aviator, I mean living the military lifestyle) then there is no greater opportunity in the world for you. Don't take the decision lightly.

 

I intended to write more and to go more in depth but I keep losing my train of thought. My apologies!

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Well Yoda, I've been trying for several years now, but I guess if it takes 20yrs to get a job, you can still say its not impossible. <_>

 

At least it seems the original poster has time on his side,...he's definitly going to need it!

 

Haha, understood, butters. :) I was more referring to the military route - it may seem impossible, but only if you don't put in a packet!

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Wow, you guys have giving me a ton of valuable information. And thank you, Lindsey. Much appreciated!

 

I have decided to definitely go military. I have friends who have done it, and I know what to expect and how the lifestyle is. I'm ready for that. I'm not afraid to go through hell to get to where I wanna be, especially if it means I can gain the life experiences of defending my country at the same time.

 

I don't want people here to think I am just expecting a free ride for flight training. If I was expecting that, I would beg my mother.

 

Thanks everyone, and at this point I really just want to know what all I need to do throughout the next 3-4 years of college while I prepare to dive into the WOFT packet.

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Have you gotten a Class 1A Flight physical yet? I'd heavily suggest again doing that first. You would be amazed what will disqualify you. The regulations PDF can be found online..do some googling and find it, read it then talk to a recruiter and ask them to contact MEPS to confirm you're physically eligible.

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"eaw913" said-

"And I assume I would be specializing in flying UH-60 Blackhawks, as it is the closest relation to flying EMS (medevac and crew transport)."

 

Don't rule out any 'track', Scouts especially. I've flown with guys from all backgrounds, military and civilian. while a good pilot STARTS with training and builds experience on that, because irregardless of exactly what's being done, there's something to be learned you'll use later.

That said, Scouts are, I believe, the only single-pilot helicopters the Army flies. Almost all civilian helos are single pilot, EMS especially. Most of the Scout mission profile is contact, low-level, good experience for EMS. Train the way you're going to fly is always the best idea. Not insulting the Lift guys (I were one), the Hook drivers, or Guns, those I work with are all really good aviators- but Scouts seem to have less problem adapting to civilian single-pilot operation.

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OH-58D still fly missions dual pilot. You wont see much single pilot time in the Army these days. We don't even have a solo flight during flight school.

 

 

Do you mean no solo during the OH-58 part of the training? Last I heard people still solo'd in the TH-67?

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Have you gotten a Class 1A Flight physical yet? I'd heavily suggest again doing that first. You would be amazed what will disqualify you. The regulations PDF can be found online..do some googling and find it, read it then talk to a recruiter and ask them to contact MEPS to confirm you're physically eligible.

 

I have not yet. I will search up the regulations PDF now. My only thing about talking to a recruiter and scheduling one is I don't want them to be all over me about enlisting. Even if I was definite, I'm not going to join for at least a while longer until I get a degree. I just don't want to be pressured constantly, considering I know exactly what I want and all they want is to get me enlisted.

 

 

"eaw913" said-

"And I assume I would be specializing in flying UH-60 Blackhawks, as it is the closest relation to flying EMS (medevac and crew transport)."

 

Don't rule out any 'track', Scouts especially. I've flown with guys from all backgrounds, military and civilian. while a good pilot STARTS with training and builds experience on that, because irregardless of exactly what's being done, there's something to be learned you'll use later.

That said, Scouts are, I believe, the only single-pilot helicopters the Army flies. Almost all civilian helos are single pilot, EMS especially. Most of the Scout mission profile is contact, low-level, good experience for EMS. Train the way you're going to fly is always the best idea. Not insulting the Lift guys (I were one), the Hook drivers, or Guns, those I work with are all really good aviators- but Scouts seem to have less problem adapting to civilian single-pilot operation.

 

What would be the best route to base most of my training (if possible) off of for EMS while in the army? And that makes sense that any form of training helps to your overall ability. Diversity is always a good quality, and opens up many other doors rather than just one.

 

What is a scout as far as what we are discussing? Just a different type of rank or what? I don't know the difference.

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Do you mean no solo during the OH-58 part of the training? Last I heard people still solo'd in the TH-67?

 

What he means is that there is no flight in flight school where you are the ONLY occupant in the aircraft. Your "solo" is performed with you and your stick buddy in the helicopter, and you trade off. Always two in the cockpit.

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