Rotoway Timebuilding

[kphansen4]

Do to the cost of helicopter training, has anyone purchased a Rotoway Helicopter for time building. They seem to be getting more popular, according to the number sold. With the slow economic period, seems flying a $30,000 helicopter makes more sense than flying a $120,000 if the hours are logged for the same training. Any thoughts appreciated, I'm a CFI with little job prospects but some income to build to that magic 1,000 hours minimum time.

[Dreamin of a Commuter 2B]

Not sure about rotorways,but I have heard of a guy that logged turbine time in a helicyle and got hired flying a Turbine Helicopter.

 

I have a Helicopter I restored for a guy to buy as a Time builder, but the guy backed out of the deal mid way thru the restore.

 

it is a rare Helicom Commuter Jr. H-1B single seat 90 h.p. cont. C90-12F engine.

this is the Helicopter the Safari helicopter evolved from.

and CHR international now has pics of my machine posted on the website.

 

 

now to find a new buyer for it as I am not helicopter rated.

[permison]

I love the Rotorway designs however three problems I see with this.

 

1. For it to be economical you need to buy a kit already built. Here you don't know how well it was built by the previous owner/builder. Safety concerns + Cost of used ship + Cost of flight time = ?

 

2. If you buy it as a kit and build it yourself you are going to spend over 100K and it will take over a year to build. Cost of kit + time to build + cost of flight time =

 

3. In either case after you purchase this kit (built or nonbuilt) you still have to pay for the flight time. Last I checked flight times for an owned ship were around $100 an hour (cost of maint, fuel and lube, ect...)

 

So by the time you spent the money you are out a significant amount. Now if you won the lottery then it's a good deal, but if you're a poor working shlub like the rest of us the economics don't work.

[wait4me]

I am working part time with a guy who does some Rotorway training and build assistance. I was a little skeptical of the idea of a homebuilt experimental helo, but after flying in a few I am pretty impressed with them. I have flown in 2 A600 Talons and one slightly upgraded 162f and they've all flown marvelously.

 

I am actually considering just as you are trying to acquire a used ship with low time, but even most of the used ships he has available right now are closer to $60,000 than $30,000. I've considered maybe getting a few cfi friends of mine to partner up and split the cost.

 

Ships in the 30k range are available, but may need a few upgrades to be really usable for extensive time building. In any case, if you want to talk to a guy who knows the ships inside and out, google airmark helo, or Mark Peterson.

[Little Red 22]

The Rotorway helicopter needs more maintenance time compared to a R22. There are a few Rotorways that get flown a lot, most gather dust in a hangar. It is a real drag for your helicopter to be down for service. We chose to buy a high time young R22 Beta 2. These usually sell for: core price $50,000 + $60 * hours remaining.

 

Why do people talk about time building? I see it as skill and experience building.

[edspilot]

kphansen4:

 

Where are you located?

 

edspilot

[kphansen4]

Thanks for all the reply's! I'm located in the Seattle area and do consider time building to be experience time. I've talked with many utility operators and they don't seem to care much about what you do before the 1,000 hours, it's after the 1,000 hours. Most just seemed to care about how you handle the machine in a utility situation. They also mentioned they would be willing to train the newbie if he or she was a likeable person, dependable and a decent stick. Some operators I talked with would even consider someone with less than 1,000 hours if the situation warranted it. Right place, right time was there motto, who wasn't reckless and cockey. Being clean and sober was another trait they were looking for, not the young party hopping skirt chasing kids they called them. Being on time for work and staying overtime was someone most were willing to try out.

[kphansen4]

kphansen4:

 

Where are you located?

 

edspilot

 

Seattle, Wa area.

[r22butters]

Why do people talk about time building? I see it as skill and experience building.

 

I have done a few time building things where I did learn a new skill, and gain some experience, i.e. Photos, LE. Sadly though, most of the time it feels like I'm just sitting there, waiting for the hobbs to flip over.

[ChprPlt]

Good idea to try to find alternate ways to build your flight time. I see lots of deals on here for dual R22 time (Like $99 per hour etc). Might be easier and more cost effective.

 

I wouldn't count on 1000 hours to be "magical". I thought it would be too and 800 hours later I'm still working as a CFI.

 

Good luck

[r22butters]

I wouldn't count on 1000 hours to be "magical". I thought it would be too and 800 hours later I'm still working as a CFI.

 

Good luck

 

So 1,800hrs and your still a CFi? Have you tried places like Temsco and Papillion? If so, are they that hard to get into?

[HELICOLT]

hey you can always look at the bright side of things.. Atleast your a working helicopter pilot gaining experience.. A lot of us would give an arm and a leg just for that cfi job

[ChprPlt]

So 1,800hrs and your still a CFi? Have you tried places like Temsco and Papillion? If so, are they that hard to get into?

 

 

yeah man I've tried all companies in the gulf, all the tour companies in Vegas/Grand Canyon, tour companies in NYC, Tour companies in Alaska, ENG jobs, Overseas jobs. I went to the job fair at the Heli Expo. I've drove down to the big four in the Gulf and dropped off resumes. I apply at every job I qualify for and even some I don't. Just haven't got my break yet but its not from a lack of effort.

 

I know I am lucky to still be employed as a CFI. At least I'm still flying!

 

***sorry to get off topic***

Edited June 24, 2010 by ChprPlt

[Trans Lift]

I wouldn't touch a Rotorway and if I ever see one again it will be too soon. Did one flight with a guy in it who wanted some personal intruction. I declined to fly any further after half an hour in the damn thing.

 

And some people think the 22 is bad....

[r22butters]

yeah man I've tried all companies in the gulf, all the tour companies in Vegas/Grand Canyon, tour companies in NYC, Tour companies in Alaska, ENG jobs, Overseas jobs. I went to the job fair at the Heli Expo. I've drove down to the big four in the Gulf and dropped off resumes. I apply at every job I qualify for and even some I don't. Just haven't got my break yet but its not from a lack of effort.

 

I know I am lucky to still be employed as a CFI. At least I'm still flying!

 

Well that's definitly the most depressing post I have ever read!

 

I guess its time for me to sign up for the McManagement Training Program, because if 1,800hrs can't get you out of teaching, then ALL HOPE IS LOST!

 

So much for time building?

[kphansen4]

I wouldn't touch a Rotorway and if I ever see one again it will be too soon. Did one flight with a guy in it who wanted some personal intruction. I declined to fly any further after half an hour in the damn thing.

 

And some people think the 22 is bad....

 

 

What was it about the Rotorway you didn't like?

[ChprPlt]

Well that's definitly the most depressing post I have ever read!

 

I guess its time for me to sign up for the McManagement Training Program, because if 1,800hrs can't get you out of teaching, then ALL HOPE IS LOST!

 

So much for time building?

 

 

The industry will get better. Not sure if it will ever get back to where it was. When I was training without fail every instructor that hit 1000 hours was off to the gulf. All industries are impacted by the economy. Its got to turn around. I was told in the 80's airplane guys had the same problem. They had to get to about 2500 hours before they could find work.

[Trans Lift]

Well that's definitly the most depressing post I have ever read!

 

I guess its time for me to sign up for the McManagement Training Program, because if 1,800hrs can't get you out of teaching, then ALL HOPE IS LOST!

 

So much for time building?

 

There are still people getting jobs with less hours than that man, my friend just got a job with 380 hours helicopters. He will be working on the ground for a bit but it is very promising. Another mate got a job instructing in NY. There are a few more that I know of too.

 

Some people think its all about the hours but its not. Some people just dont have the personality, the attitude, the right stuff fr a particular job. There was a guy going for the same job as me and had only 140 hours less than me. I got the job because of some of my experience from my previous job. I was more insurable than him. Plus I get on really well with the owners and we just click. Once again, its not just about having the minimums for the job.

 

Just because someone is still instructing at 1800 hours doesn't mean that is the same or the standard. He just hasn't had his break yet.

 

(Chprplt: I'm not saying that there is anything wrong with you or your ability, just merely implying that hours is not always what counts. Keep up the good work and your break is right around the corner)

 

Damien

[permison]

Like most things in life, it really is who you know not as much what you know. It's not fair and certainly not a perfect system but it seems to work. Something a lot of people don't take into account when choosing a school is how will the school help you find a job. What is the schools reputation (if they even have one) in the industry. I know a lot of people who refuse to hire from certain schools. So school owners can call up a hiring manager and say "Take a look at this guy" and that pretty much opens the door wide open.

[ChprPlt]

Damien,

 

I agree with you...my time will come eventually. Doing everything I can to network and stay positive. Heck if I could get 500 turbine hours I'm sure I could get a job in EMS!!

[sneakin]

I have to chime in here. I own a rotorway 162F and so does my boss/friend. We both fly law enforcement for a living and fly our "little birds" for pleasure. His ship is apx 13 years old and has close to 400 hrs with no major maintenance issues. My ship is just over a year old with only 50-ish hrs so far. It took me 11 months to build and after a few minor tweaks, it's flying fine. Anyone looking into the rotorway should check out www.rotorwayownersgroup.com as a source of information. The are several VERY knowledgeable persons who can answer questions and provide training. Mark Peterson, Orv, and Homer are the three that come to mind. I had Mark Peterson inspect my ship and perform the final rigging ( blade tracking/balance, etc) prior to the first flight...which I would highly recommend. The rotorway is a safe ship if care in building and maintenance is performed per rotorway inspections, and the ship is flown within limitations. My draw to this ship was the fact that it was within $$$ reach of a poor working slob like myself, and I can perform the required maintenance myself. It runs on 93 octane gasoline but also runs just fine on avgas. It holds 17 gals with a flight time of about 2 hrs. At $2.83 a gal here in Florida, that means about $24.00 bucks per flight hour. That does not include oil changes, new plugs, etc. All in all I am very happy with my machine and look forward to those days where I can fly for myself and not for someone else. Fly safe...... Bill

[cherminator]

I would strongly consider the single seat Mosquito XET turbine and build not just time, but turbine time. You can check out the stats and pricing at:

http://www.rotorfx.com .They will even build one for you. It looks like a brand new one built by them is between $51,500. and $56,500.

 

The Mosquito forum is at:

http://www.innovator.mosquito.net.nz/mbbs2/category-view.asp

[cherminator]

My link to Rotor FX above was not working due to me putting a dot in the wrong place. Now it is. Sorry for the inconvenience.

[Little Red 22]

The mosquito in an interesting little helicopter. Rotor FX is at VNY. I have never seen one venture the 30 miles to SZP or CMA. I hope that the helicopter is up to the trip and they come visit.

Edited July 16, 2010 by Little Red 22

[HeliAv8r]

Granted any way to get cheap time is good, but as a future employer does time in the experimentals carry as much weight as those in certified ships? It seems like 500 hours in a Robby would look better then 800 in a mosquito...