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Immigrants owning aircraft.


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I have a student and friend from South Africa here in the US who bought his own R44 a while back. Even though He'd been flying the aircraft fully registered and insured for about a year now, the FAA recently contacted him to tell him that he could not own an aircraft here in the US because he was not a citizen. Does anyone know anything about this ridiculousness? Do you know of any FARs that exist that would preclude him from owning, or any precedent that has been set by a judge in the past in this area? Think of how many N-reg aircraft around the world(Ireland & the UK as an example) that are owned and operated by non-Americans. Maybe it's just some mid-level FSDO guy going on a little power trip to get his rocks off or something.

 

I never heard anything like this before, so I told him to "Lawyer up" and rip his ass to shreds, if it is a lone FSDO guy.

 

Any input would be appreciated.

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Shocking but true!

 

Pursuant to 49 USC § 44101, an aircraft cannot be operated unless it is registered. Regardless of how one intends to operate an aircraft, there are stringent limitations on foreign ownership of U.S. registered aircraft. For those of us who assist foreign clients in the acquisition of U.S. registered aircraft, statutory and regulatory compliance is an in-depth process.

 

49 USC § 44102 states that an aircraft may be registered only when it is owned by a citizen of the United States, an individual citizen of a foreign country lawfully admitted for permanent residence in the United States ("Resident Alien") or a corporation not a citizen of the United States when the corporation is organized and doing business under the laws of the United States or a State, and the aircraft is based and primarily used in the United States.

 

FAR 47.2 defines "U.S. Citizen" as:

 

(1) An individual who is a citizen of the United States or one of its possessions;

 

(2) A partnership of which each member is such an individual; and

 

(3) A corporation or association created or organized under the laws of the United States or of any State, Territory, or possession of the United States, of which the president and two‑thirds or more of the board of directors and other managing officers thereof are such individuals and in which at least 75 percent of the voting interest is owned or controlled by persons who are citizens of the United States or of one of its possessions.

 

 

 

If your client is a non-citizen corporation, it may qualify for US registration under FAR 47.9 provided it is qualified to do business in one or more states and the aircraft will be based and primarily used in the United States. The definitions in FAR 47.2 regarding "U.S. Citizen" refers to both "corporation" and "association" that are properly created or organized under the laws of the U.S. or any state, meaning the regulation applies to business entities other than corporations. A limited liability company is treated as an "Unincorporated association", as defined in the Act and the Regulations, which must pass a citizenship test similar to corporations, but modified depending on the requirements of the state in which it is registered. For the purposes of registration, an aircraft is based and primarily used in the United States if the flight hours accumulated within the United States amount to at least 60 percent of the total flight hours of the aircraft (qualifying flights must originate and end within the United States).

 

If your client is a partnership, all partners must be U.S. citizens. However, if one, several or all of the members are not U.S. citizens, the client is faced with the decision to restructure itself to comply with the non-citizen corporation provisions above or transferring the non-citizen partner's interest to a trustee as described below.

 

If your client is not a US citizen or a qualifying non-citizen corporation, the most common means of meeting the threshold requirements for U.S. registration is through a trust. FAR 47.7 does not prevent foreign beneficiaries from having a majority, if not all, of the beneficial interest in such a trust. Keep in mind however, that the trust will be the registered owner of the aircraft.

 

Under FAR 47.7, the trustees must be U.S. citizens or resident aliens. Further, the applicant must submit all applicable trust documents, an affidavit of the beneficiary's citizenship, and if any of the beneficiaries are foreign, an affidavit that the foreign beneficiaries would not have more than 25 percent of the aggregate power to influence or limit the exercise of the trustee's authority.

 

Found this here http://www.avialex.com/ComingtoAmerica.shtml

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The alien airplane owners that I know have set up trusts, holding companies or use anonymous ownership scams. These guys would prefer to have the more simple ownership and tax structures of a US owner. The net effect is to generate some revenue for lawyers. It also saves the public from seeing how many of those fancy jets have middle eastern ownership.

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Hey guys, thanks for taking the time to reply on this.

is your friend gay? I cannot imagine why a guy would want to "rip his ass to shreds"...or maybe it is the lawyer that wants to do that... I must be missing something.

 

 

Sorry Apiaguy, that was just a figure of speech!

 

Shocking but true!

 

Pursuant to 49 US............................................of the trustee's authority.

 

Found this here http://www.avialex.c...toAmerica.shtml

 

 

It's pretty crazy stuff. I'm guessing they want you to have at least the Green Card(permanent residence) before you go buying aircraft. That end of it is understandable I guess.

 

 

The alien airplane owners that I know have set up trusts, holding companies or use anonymous ownership scams. These guys would prefer to have the more simple ownership and tax structures of a US owner. The net effect is to generate some revenue for lawyers. It also saves the public from seeing how many of those fancy jets have middle eastern ownership.

 

Having spoke to him this evening, He thinks that is the direction he's going to go with it. It's looks like it comes with a fee of about a Grand a year or something like that. More money for the lawyers!!

 

 

If people would just go through the process and do it right, there wouldn't be an issue. Why should he be entitled to something here in America when he has no citizenship?

 

I didn't say he was entitled. He didn't know, and nobody told him at the time he was buying and registering it initially that he couldn't legally do it. But he's pumped "Gazillions" or dollars into the economy since coming here, and with plenty to spare, he'll have no problem getting around the "little guy" laws. I'm not saying it's right, but isn't that one of the realities here....If you've got enough money, there's very little you can't do.

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If people would just go through the process and do it right, there wouldn't be an issue. Why should he be entitled to something here in America when he has no citizenship?

 

I really think that this comment is a load of BS. Why should he not be able to own an aircraft over here. Lelebebbel, you said it. I owned a car, a gun and other things before I became a permanent resident over here. Americans can do it in other countries so why not here, what makes this country so special?? :angry:

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Our laws say he can't, some other countries laws are less restrictive.

If you don't like our laws you can always go back to the country you came from or stay and try to change the laws you don't agree with.

 

MSgt Jerry Hain, USAF Ret.

 

P.S. I lived overseas for 10 years.

Edited by IFLYEVERYTHING
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I really think that this comment is a load of BS. Why should he not be able to own an aircraft over here. Lelebebbel, you said it. I owned a car, a gun and other things before I became a permanent resident over here. Americans can do it in other countries so why not here, what makes this country so special?? :angry:

I think this country is very special. If you do not feel the same way, maybe you should think about moving on.

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Alright, I think everyone needs to settle down a little before we run the risk of this "devolving" into a justhelicopters.com dumbass fest. This topic wasn't supposed to be anti-American, just anti-dumb rule.

 

I think the "if you don't like it here, you should leave" arguement is not a very smart one. Where would this country be if all the people who didn't like how things were done here over the years just left, instead of fixing them. IFLYEVERYTHING's "stay and change it" argument is a better option in my opinion.

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Where would this country be if all the people who didn't like how things were done here over the years just left, instead of fixing them.

 

A lot better off...its like the people that move in next to an airport then try and close the airport...if you don't like it, then move!

 

Anyway, this might help out your friend : http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/06/24/source-administration-weighing-unilateral-legalization-illegal-immigrants/

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A lot better off...its like the people that move in next to an airport then try and close the airport...if you don't like it, then move!

 

Anyway, this might help out your friend : http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/06/24/source-administration-weighing-unilateral-legalization-illegal-immigrants/

 

A. Seriously...you are comparing America to an Airport...and the people who disagree with how some things are done in the government or society to the people that live next to airports?

 

B. "A lot better off" if people just moved if they didn't like how things were done. Well in that case my friend. America would have no;

Women - because we didn't give them equal rights until 1972, and there was that whole trying to burn them during the Salem witch trials (those damn witches should have just left if they didn't like getting burned alive (according to you))

Irish people - The immigrants we mistreated and took advantage of during their early years here in America.

African Americans- the whole slavery thing

Japanese Americans - The whole wrongful imprisonment camps thing during WWII

Homosexuals- Because they still don't have equals rights

and many other people that make America, America...

 

C. This is why the America has a Constitutions that has 27 Amendments, and this is why societies ideals are constantly evolving. Things will always change and evolve, that is how life and society operates. If the people that didn't like how things were just moved than we would never evolve and we would be left behind and America would not be America at all. It would be something far worse.

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I have a student and friend from South Africa here in the US who bought his own R44 a while back. Even though He'd been flying the aircraft fully registered and insured for about a year now, the FAA recently contacted him to tell him that he could not own an aircraft here in the US because he was not a citizen. Does anyone know anything about this ridiculousness? Do you know of any FARs that exist that would preclude him from owning, or any precedent that has been set by a judge in the past in this area? Think of how many N-reg aircraft around the world(Ireland & the UK as an example) that are owned and operated by non-Americans. Maybe it's just some mid-level FSDO guy going on a little power trip to get his rocks off or something.

 

I never heard anything like this before, so I told him to "Lawyer up" and rip his ass to shreds, if it is a lone FSDO guy.

 

Any input would be appreciated.

 

I know how to do it as I was in the same situation, call me 310-854-2555

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A. Seriously...you are comparing America to an Airport...and the people who disagree with how some things are done in the government or society to the people that live next to airports?

 

B. "A lot better off" if people just moved if they didn't like how things were done. Well in that case my friend. America would have no;

Women - because we didn't give them equal rights until 1972, and there was that whole trying to burn them during the Salem witch trials (those damn witches should have just left if they didn't like getting burned alive (according to you))

Irish people - The immigrants we mistreated and took advantage of during their early years here in America.

African Americans- the whole slavery thing

Japanese Americans - The whole wrongful imprisonment camps thing during WWII

Homosexuals- Because they still don't have equals rights

and many other people that make America, America...

 

C. This is why the America has a Constitutions that has 27 Amendments, and this is why societies ideals are constantly evolving. Things will always change and evolve, that is how life and society operates. If the people that didn't like how things were just moved than we would never evolve and we would be left behind and America would not be America at all. It would be something far worse.

 

I didn't compare that...I compared illegals (foreigners) coming here and telling us that just because they can do it in their crap hole country that they should be able to do it here! I don't agree with that! If they can do it in their crap hole country then STAY THERE!!

 

And if you haven't noticed, America is already changing from America to something like those crap hole countries that these people are coming from!

 

LOVE IT OR LEAVE IT!

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...and what do illegal immigrants have to do with anything in this thread?

 

3192435737_6d81f4bb88.jpg

 

 

I mean, nothing wrong with being against illegal immigrants and the issues they may cause, but this isn't about some poor bugger who jumps a fence to get into the US and then wants a social security check or something -

 

It was about a LEGAL (two letters, big difference!) immigrant buying a $500,000 US product with his own money

Edited by lelebebbel
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I was just going by that...? I thought that would mean he's here illegally?

 

Adam, you're not intelligent enough to be argued with. Maybe if you went back to school and got someone to teach you to read then you might qualify to partake in this particular conversation.

 

It is fun getting you guys all riled up though! :P

 

There's no point in trying to back track now, your bigotry has shone through in all it's glory when you jumped on the word "Immigrant" as being illegal. I especially liked how you topped it off with the Fox news link you posted. Well done though, there's a lot of people who go through their whole lives without ever coming close to expressing themselves as well as you have here today.

 

Anywhooo, my work here is done. I managed to get some answers before the circus kicked off, which I suppose is all you can hope for really with a topic as sensitive as this. I thank the rest of the commenters for their info. As always, you guys are an invaluable source of information, and you help make this industry more special than it already is, and I'm proud to be among you.

 

Cheers,

Darren.

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Adam, you're not intelligent enough to be argued with. Maybe if you went back to school and got someone to teach you to read then you might qualify to partake in this particular conversation.

 

 

 

There's no point in trying to back track now, your bigotry has shone through in all it's glory when you jumped on the word "Immigrant" as being illegal. I especially liked how you topped it off with the Fox news link you posted. Well done though, there's a lot of people who go through their whole lives without ever coming close to expressing themselves as well as you have here today.

 

Anywhooo, my work here is done. I managed to get some answers before the circus kicked off, which I suppose is all you can hope for really with a topic as sensitive as this. I thank the rest of the commenters for their info. As always, you guys are an invaluable source of information, and you help make this industry more special than it already is, and I'm proud to be among you.

 

Cheers,

Darren.

 

You said he's NOT a citizen, right? What does "not a US citizen" mean? You are either a legal citizen or you're not. You say he doesn't have a green card either? So, either do it the right way, quit complaining or go back to you're crap hole country!

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I managed to get some answers before the circus kicked off, which I suppose is all you can hope for really with a topic as sensitive as this. I thank the rest of the commenters for their info. As always, you guys are an invaluable source of information, and you help make this industry more special than it already is, and I'm proud to be among you.

 

Cheers,

Darren.

 

I do appreciate the topic and answers.

 

Adam

If someone wants to visit our country they just need a visa (not VISA) with passport then they are here legally. If they want to live here they get a immigration visa and apply for a green card so they can work. They don't have to apply for citizenship to stay here and they are still Legal immigrants. Only the ones that don't do the paperwork and sneak in are illegal. My wife is a naturalized citizen so she can own an aircraft now...I never knew she couldn't.

I need to read it again, you might be able to own it but not register or fly it.

 

Jerry

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You said he's NOT a citizen, right? What does "not a US citizen" mean? You are either a legal citizen or you're not. You say he doesn't have a green card either? So, either do it the right way, quit complaining or go back to you're crap hole country!

 

 

Adam32 you poor individual you. You are about as sharp as a marble!!!!There is no need to be Xenophobic, please stay with me here I know that was a big word for you. Now your quote above stating that South Africa is a crap hole country......wow!!!!! "take the log out of your eye before you take the splinter out of mine". Individuals such as yourself are really taxing on this great website. So please stay away and let the people who have the knowledge the freedom to pass it on. Jou Fokken Moer!!!!! There is a bit of South African for you, see if you can figure that out.

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You said he's NOT a citizen, right? What does "not a US citizen" mean? You are either a legal citizen or you're not. You say he doesn't have a green card either? So, either do it the right way, quit complaining or go back to you're crap hole country!

"not a US citizen" can mean the person is here on one of a lot of different types of visas. And why is every other country a "crap hole"? I would say this country would be better off with out the likes of you.

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