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Hmmmmmm. Well as an instructor I guess I should say something and since you are not a pilot I will go easy on you. I don't think you want to learn to fly like that guy. Although his helicopter handling skills are fine it's his decision making skills that are lacking and that is what contributes to about %90 of accidents. There is a time and place for that kind of flying (like a movie shoot) but to do that around people who can get injured or killed if anything goes wrong is irresponsible. Now go find a good instructor and learn to fly responsibly, there is plenty of reward in that alone.

Edited by HeloJVB
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Someone's phone is going to be ringing if you keep flying like that, on video to boot!

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He did not have Forrest's Mom to teach him ("stupid is as stupid does"). There is, unfortunately, no shortage of stupid out in the world. It makes Frank and I cry; CFIT, unintended ditching, hangar doors, continued flight into IMC...where do bad`apples get the mag keys, and certificates??!! Don't follow people, follow rules.

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The youtube vid has the N number posted on it, awesome. Now I know who not to fly with/for. That was ridiculously stupid and dangerous, both to the pilot/passengers and the people on the deck and the water. Engine failure? Ditch in the drink, rotor tears itself apart and maybe pieces hit people/boats, maybe the people in the aircraft get out, maybe they drown. If I trained you, you'd never fly like that, that kind of stuff kills people. The moment you put yourself in a position where an engine failure could kill you, it will. Ugh. Showing off is dumb, a good pilot doesn't need to. Brings to mind that joke about rednecks and last words, "Hey y'all watch this!"

 

Don't mean to come across harshly or anything, but when accidents happen due to stuff like that it puts all us pilots and the helicopter industry in a bad light.

Edited by Chewie
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REALLY PERMISON!?!?! I TOLD THE FAA ON YOU!?! C'mon man.. we fly helicopters for the things they can do.. and HOVERING isn't exactly awful. people like you are the reason that there are so many rules. you feel you need to tattle on someone because they did something you wont do.. jesus christ. what a joke. I hope the "I turned him in" comment is a troll.

 

Same thing to Chewie...

 

ITS A HELICOPTER... hovering is an amazing feat that we all do, he didn't hover over anyone. he hovered near some people. I did that on a regular basis when I gave rides in an R44. was that irresponsible of me and dangerous? If you aren't teaching your students how to fly and hover OGE, or hover low, near objects. Then I dont want to fly with you...

 

I think you guys are trying to be a little to "holier than thou" with this. you guys must only fly at 1000+ AGL, straight and level, banks less than 30 degrees, NEVER inside the HV diagram and always ALWAYS land at the far end of the airport where there are no hangars or people.. because that would be just dangerous.

Edited by clay
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maybe I saw the wrong video... some helicopter hovering over the water... dropping a couple ping pong balls... looks pretty ho hum...

permison...are you serious?...what kind of ops do you fly?

 

Maybe you didn't see the last part of the video but he gets awful close to a passing boat that was not part of the party. I am not the judge and jury so I will let those at the FAA decide if this incident is to be investigated but it sure looked unsafe to me.

 

His flying was counting on everything going right. Had that engine failed (admittedly a very uncommon event) he would have been in the water and possibly injured or killed those around. Note the quick stop, when he comes in (you can see the rotors coning significantly), towards the people on the deck. Then the pilot has a boat sail almost directly under the rotor tips as he dunks the skids in the water. What about this isn't extremely poor judgment in your opinion? If this was a commercial op they could probably have their op ticket pulled.

 

Remember it isn't just our view of how things go but the public's opinion (unqualified as it may be). Regardless of the pilots ability (he might be the best pilot in the world), his flying sure did look dangerous to me and I "am" qualified to judge. I can only imagine what the people in the boat were thinking.

 

Had enough people (unqualified as they may be to judge) complained it could impact helicopter operations in the area for years to come, as has happened on the east coast now with recent rules. We are a community and are constantly under review by everyone. Stunts like this are not appropriate. They "might" be legal but I highly doubt it.

 

Part 91 section 119 part D says "Helicopters may be operated at less than the minimums prescribed in paragraph (B) or © of this section if the operation is conducted without hazard to persons or property on the surface. In addition, each person operating a helicopter shall comply with any routes or altitudes specifically prescribed for helicopters by the Administrator."

 

In my opinion that seemed to place the people on the deck and more so those in the boat in extreme hazard.

 

The FAA will probably investigate, and make a determination based on what they find.

 

But I will tell you what if this guy worked for me or flew one of my aircraft I would do a lot more than sh*t can his ass.

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Part 91 section 119 part D says "Helicopters may be operated at less than the minimums prescribed in paragraph (B) or © of this section if the operation is conducted without hazard to persons or property on the surface. In addition, each person operating a helicopter shall comply with any routes or altitudes specifically prescribed for helicopters by the Administrator."

 

But I will tell you what if this guy worked for me or flew one of my aircraft I would do a lot more than sh*t can his ass.

 

So YOU deemed it a hazard? does that mean your are the deciding factor? and what company or aircraft do you own? I'd be curious to know what line of work your in

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REALLY PERMISON!?!?! I TOLD THE FAA ON YOU!?! C'mon man.. we fly helicopters for the things they can do.. and HOVERING isn't exactly awful. people like you are the reason that there are so many rules. you feel you need to tattle on someone because they did something you wont do.. jesus christ. what a joke. I hope the "I turned him in" comment is a troll.

 

Same thing to Chewie...

 

ITS A HELICOPTER... hovering is an amazing feat that we all do, he didn't hover over anyone. he hovered near some people. I did that on a regular basis when I gave rides in an R44. was that irresponsible of me and dangerous? If you aren't teaching your students how to fly and hover OGE, or hover low, near objects. Then I dont want to fly with you...

 

I think you guys are trying to be a little to "holier than thou" with this. you guys must only fly at 1000+ AGL, straight and level, banks less than 30 degrees, NEVER inside the HV diagram and always ALWAYS land at the far end of the airport where there are no hangars or people.. because that would be just dangerous.

 

Clay,

Yes we can do all those things, but it doesn't mean we should. There is a right time to do this and a not right time. This falls under my definition of "Not the right time".

 

No I am not trolling by turning him in. I get nothing personally out of it. But his actions do affect the rest of us. He is not using good judgement, period, dot.

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Much ado about NOTHING! Permison, nice outing yourself as a RAT. I hope you get ramp checked and they find some chicken crud thing to ding you on. You think it is dangerous? You talked about a quick stop... I did not see a quick stop. And how can you tell anything about the blades being coned in a video? I have seen video where the blades were STOPPED the entire time, yet the helicopter was hovering just fine. None of those boats were even remotely close to the rotors. If he crashed it is possible flying debris could have posed a hazard but that is true just about anywhere you land on an airport ramp. As for hovering over the water.... why is that dangerous? I do a hundred times a day when I am filling my Bambi Bucket. It sure is nice that we have a judge, jury and executioner right here on VR that can look at a video on youtube and pronounce judgment.

 

SuperPilot, please refrain from verbally attacking other members because you don't agree with them.

 

Everybody is free to post their opinions on the topic, but insulting somebody because they disagree with you and may or may not have taken action to notify the FAA will not be tolerated.

 

We now return to our regularly scheduled programming.......

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The pilot did hover unnecessarily close to an (apparently) uninvolved boat. I also doubt the persons on the dock had any understanding of the danger from flying debris in the unlikely event the helicopter crashed.

 

I think that in order for the hazard {91.119(A)} to become "undue" to persons there must be an element of danger, and the persons must not fully comprehend that danger. So, a helicopter hovering over a person wouldn't be an undue hazard to a properly trained ground crew hooking a load, but it is an undue hazard to the spectator watching from the roadside.

 

In other words, if the people on the dock and boat actually understood that if the helicopter crashed they could be grievously injured by flying debris, and consented to the helicopter operating that close, then this isn't reckless or negligent flying, just dangerous. If they didn't fully understand or weren't even aware that there would be a helicopter operating in very close proximity then the hazard becomes undue, and 91.119 has been violated.

 

In the grand scheme of things, the pilot didn't do anything terribly dangerous, however, it was very stupid to operate like that around people that aren't accustomed to being around helicopters.

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The moment you put yourself in a position where an engine failure could kill you, it will

 

Chewie,

 

Most aspects of the flying in my job pretty much puts where an engine failure could possibly kill, actually everytime you get in a helicopter you put yourself in that position.

 

So, a helicopter hovering over a person wouldn't be an undue hazard to a properly trained ground crew hooking a load, but it is an undue hazard to the spectator watching from the roadside.

 

Ha ha, not with some of the ground crew I have had.

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Much ado about NOTHING! Permison, nice outing yourself as a RAT. I hope you get ramp checked and they find some chicken crud thing to ding you on. You think it is dangerous? You talked about a quick stop... I did not see a quick stop. And how can you tell anything about the blades being coned in a video? I have seen video where the blades were STOPPED the entire time, yet the helicopter was hovering just fine. None of those boats were even remotely close to the rotors. If he crashed it is possible flying debris could have posed a hazard but that is true just about anywhere you land on an airport ramp. As for hovering over the water.... why is that dangerous? I do a hundred times a day when I am filling my Bambi Bucket. It sure is nice that we have a judge, jury and executioner right here on VR that can look at a video on youtube and pronounce judgment.

 

 

Rat? really, what is this elementary school? It is amazing to me how quick you and Clay are to jump to this guys defense. I am sure both you and Clay are excellent pilots. But let's be real here, this guy was flying dangerously. Yes, we all have moments where we are exposed to difficult and dangerous flying. Yes, you do the same thing when you fill up your bucket, but you're doing a job and I am sure ensuring the area is clear and safe as it can be. Clay I am sure you fly in the H/V curve every day. We all do. And most of the time we do it safe. We do it as part of our job. Helicopters are just inherently dangerous and that is part of why not everyone can do it. But this guy was completely out of line and clearly doing something inappropriate. This guy was showboating pure and simple.

 

But clearly you both can't see the bigger picture here. Let's give the guy the benefit of the doubt, he probably had permission to do the flight, he probably had permission to throw objects from the aircraft, Yes he can "legally" fly that low. Did he believe he was safe? In "Sky king's" mind I am sure he was god of aviation and couldn't possible get into trouble. But the reality is he very well could have and put others lives at risk, though I doubt they realized that.

 

But more importantly the issue is one of perception. A lot of people don't like helicopters. They think they are dangerous. There are ongoing attempts to severely impact our industry due to perceptions of show boaters just like this idiot in the video.

 

By example I give you the ADIZ around Washington DC and the ongoing attempts at new rules for flights in and around long island. (Remember this post by Lynn? http://tinyurl.com/397ohwm)

 

Did any General Aviation pilots have anything to do with the attacks on 9/11? Yet General Aviation is excluded from the airspace in and around DC. Know how many aviation companies went out of business because of this?

 

I am sure 99% of all pilots in and around Long Island are flying within the FAA rule of law. Yet even though they flew legally pilots operating in that area are now at risk of increased cost to fly, limitations on where they can fly, and in some cases could be put out of business all together.

 

Remember the idiot who flew his plane into the IRS building in Texas? Now there is legislation for putting up a no fly zone around the city.

 

ALL BECAUSE OF PERCEPTION.....

 

Now let me be clear here. I do not work for the FAA, nor have I ever been an employee of the FAA. I have no control over this persons certificate nor the outcome of any investigation. I am not Judge Jury and Executioner.

 

However I am a commercial pilot, I earn income as a pilot. I don't have to explain or defend my actions to either of you. Nor do you need to know who I am or who I fly for. However I am smart enough to recognize the threats to our industry because of dipshits like this. It is up to us to ensure each of us flies safe and responsible or we risk big brother coming in to do the job for us. We can't just sit and be pilots and let someone else police the bad guys.

 

So do you want a ADIZ like airspace around every city in the country? Do you want to be limited to specific route and altitudes to fly? Let dipshits like this keep flying like this and that is exactly what you will get.

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Just out of sheer curiosity, what makes this acceptable and what took place in the video non-acceptable? Does it go back to what svrider posted and the issue of consent?

post-15642-127967871418_thumb.jpg

Granted it still isn't very smart what he did...just wondering...

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HeliAv8r,

 

Looks like a military or Law enforcement exercise or training. There is something in the water off to the right hand side of the helicopter. The other guy in the OP's video was just burning holes in the sky!

 

Still could go wrong though!!

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Just out of sheer curiosity, what makes this acceptable and what took place in the video non-acceptable? Does it go back to what svrider posted and the issue of consent?

hitdorf003.jpg

Granted it still isn't very smart what he did...just wondering...

 

Well the picture doesn't show us much. I am sure someone here knows the story. But I assume since both the boat and the Heli have police on the side and the guys are all in uniform this might be a police training exercise. I would imagine (from my experience participating in these sorts of ops) that a lot of preparation went into the planning of this event. The boat crew is there for safety while the helicopter engages in high risk training. There is probably a plan for if something goes wrong with the aircraft and the boat is also responsible for keeping the public clear. Note both the aircraft and the boat are police vehicles, note the rescue divers in the boat with helmets on and the one in the water. Looks like they are either picking up rescue divers or training to pick up people in the water. Picking or dropping off anyone in the water is extremely risky and requires practice to do it right. I could be wrong here but that is what it looks like from the single picture you provided.

 

Big difference in training and joy riding.

 

Our future member of the Darwin award from the video did nothing to protect those around in case of emergency. Didn't have anyone to keep the public clear and in point of fact seems to go out of his way to approach the passing boat.

 

Again our idiot in the video was joyriding and the guys in this picture seem to be training. And seem to have taken the necessary precautions to protect everyone.

 

There are good reasons to fly at low level above the water like "Sky King" but that wasn't the time. Water Rescue, Helitac (IE Aerial firefighting), etc all require low slow flight over water. It is inherently dangerous and takes significant training, planning and preparation to do it right. And even then with all your planning something can go wrong. If people are standing around watching close by they can get hurt if things go wrong.

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Thanks for the replies, it was in fact a law enforcement water training mission. I just wanted to make sure we weren't creating another double standard to add to the list. Even if ALL parties involved are prepared and familiar with inherent risk I'l still be leaving it to the real professionals...and try not to win any Darwin awards ;)

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Let me tell you a true story. An FAA inspector is at a campground beach with his family. There are about 50 people on the beach, and the beach is around 3000 feet long. I know, I have camped there. An airplane flew overhead, at about 300 AGL along the waterline. The inspector wrote down the tail number and violated the pilot for flying over a congested area at less than the required 1000AGL (for an airplane).

 

Now, having read that. And having seen this video, what do you think that same inspector would think? BTW, that pilot lost his certificate, and appealed to the NTSB. My understanding is he lost that appeal.

 

You could accomplish the same things that helicopter just did, and do them in a way which meets the FAR's and doesnt cause these kinds of discussions on VR. Dropping ping pong balls over bystanders heads and flying the skids in the water would not be viewed by any inspector I know as a safe operation. Operating out of the HV curve, over workmen trained and in communications with the helicopter, with a safety briefing, with people wearing PPE, could be a perfectly safe operation within the FAR's.

 

While I am not going to criticize that pilot,(he may be bigger than me...then again..not likely!), I hope I never fly like that and then go set down and think I have just conducted the safest operation possible within the parameters I had to work with.

 

Fly safe,

 

Goldy

Edited by Goldy
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