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FAR 119.1


nehpilot
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I have a few questions about 119.1

 

 

 

1. 119.1(7) Helicopter flights conducted within a 25 statute mile radius of the airport of take off if-

 

All 119 flights must be within 25 SM of the airport?

 

2. 119.1(7) (v)- The number of flights does not exceed a total of six in any calender year

 

You are only allowed to do 6 flights under 119.1 a year? That doesn't make any sense.

 

Any help or insight on understanding FAR 119.1 would be greatly appreciated.

 

Thank you

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I have a few questions about 119.1

 

 

You are only allowed to do 6 flights under 119.1 a year? That doesn't make any sense.

 

 

You are only allowed to do 6 of the people transportation flights per year under the stipulations outlined e-7

 

You can do the other items e-1 through e-5 to any distance

 

The letters and numbers before each statement are key to what the FAR is saying.

 

Part 119 is a cluster.

 

From my limited understanding:

 

don't act as a taxi outside of a 135 op (certain exceptions apply)

 

compensation can be in the form of flight hours or good will, not just money

 

do the items listed such as pipeline

 

do transport people within a company under part 91 as a corporate pilot

 

You could transport people for hire so long as you don't advertise, they come to you, and the helicopter and yourself are not from the same place, ie you work at an FBO and the helicopter is owned by that FBO.

 

I'm not sure this happens too often though.

 

"But Shaun I'll just ask the FSDO about a weird op"

 

Careful, I've had FSDO's tell me the helo needed floats before it could go over water, they're a great resource but unless you have something in writing, I'm not sure a phone conversation granting permission would hold up.

 

"It's ok Shaun I've found a loophole for my midnight taxi service"

 

There is no reasonable doubt or court precedents, the FAR does not get thicker covering each permutation, rather the FAA obliterates anyone trying to sneak around.

 

They are protecting the general public who won't know enough about helicopters to spot any dangers.

 

 

Maybe someone else want's to weigh in here though.

Edited by Shaun
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I have a few questions about 119.1

 

 

 

1. 119.1(7) Helicopter flights conducted within a 25 statute mile radius of the airport of take off if-

 

All 119 flights must be within 25 SM of the airport?

 

2. 119.1(7) (v)- The number of flights does not exceed a total of six in any calender year

 

You are only allowed to do 6 flights under 119.1 a year? That doesn't make any sense.

 

Any help or insight on understanding FAR 119.1 would be greatly appreciated.

 

Thank you

 

This is about conducting CHARTER without a 135 Cert. Each flight requires FSDO approval beforehand. Has nothing to do with part 91 and 119 rides or charity. keep ready for that.

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Simply put!

 

Not-for-Profit:

Basically, the “charity” type of flights or community event flights. That is why it is limited to only 6 and it is not for profit.

 

Rides/Tours (for profit):

If you want to do tours/rides then you need a Letter of Authorization (LOA) from the FSDO. Additionally, you will need to be on a Drug Abatement Testing Program, yours, or be a part of a larger group program. The FSDO does not care about the drug program. The FAA’s Drug Abatement Section in DC does. You will deal with the DC people and be inspected by them for your drug program compliance. Pickup and drop off at the same point and within 25 statute miles. Now, that 25 mile ring can move. Example, say if the person wanted the ride to take pictures of the fall colors, maybe you are a little too far away from the mountains, you then want to pick them up and drop them off at another point closer to the colors and do the ride from there.

 

Part 91 (included within another business:

The transportation of people or things is not the primary goal of the business. It is just part of an overall business plan to move people around to facilitate them doing their normal jobs.

 

Part 135:

This is for transportation of goods and persons from point A to B, for the express purpose of profit. This will entail a lot of work on your part and cost a lot of time and money to put together.

 

Hope this helps.

 

edspilot

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1. 119.1(7) Helicopter flights conducted within a 25 statute mile radius of the airport of take off if-

 

All 119 flights must be within 25 SM of the airport?

 

2. 119.1(7) (v)- The number of flights does not exceed a total of six in any calender year

 

You are only allowed to do 6 flights under 119.1 a year? That doesn't make any sense.

 

Okay, I have follow-up questions:

 

Can't you apply for an LOA under 119.1(e)(2). This allows for air tours within 25 sm without a restriction on the number you can do in a year that you would have if you did the flights with an LOA issued under 119.1(d)(7)? The 91.(147?) drug testing requirements will be the same.

 

Since the air taxi issue was raised, wouldn't this be permissible under 119.1(d)(7) as long as the air taxi operations were kept under 25 sm?

 

119.1 doesn't appear to apply to charity/not-for-profit flights. Those are handled completely under 91.146, including the requirements, number of flights, and minimum qualifications for private pilots to conduct them.

 

Also, the 6 (or 4 for charity) flights bit, it's interpreted as ~6 events, not 6 pick-ups/set-downs. The Mosquito Fest rides are one flight, SeaFair another, etc. And the bit about having floats over water appears to be true--regardless of whether it's a river or the Pacific Ocean, or it's just in your approach/departure or mid-route. That's what I remember reading when I looked into it earlier this summer.

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Okay, I have follow-up questions:

 

Can't you apply for an LOA under 119.1(e)(2). This allows for air tours within 25 sm without a restriction on the number you can do in a year that you would have if you did the flights with an LOA issued under 119.1(d)(7)? The 91.(147?) drug testing requirements will be the same.

 

 

e-2 is for tours, e-7 is 6 flights transporting people for whatever reason you want, not just charity flights. People have tried to be a taxi under the label of a tour and flight instruction, FAA nuked that.

 

 

Since the air taxi issue was raised, wouldn't this be permissible under 119.1(d)(7) as long as the air taxi operations were kept under 25 sm?

 

 

Did you mean e-7? Yes you can be an air taxi, but the restrictions are so large that I'm not sure anyone really does that, or for that matter why this reg is here.

 

 

119.1 doesn't appear to apply to charity/not-for-profit flights. Those are handled completely under 91.146, including the requirements, number of flights, and minimum qualifications for private pilots to conduct them.

 

 

Yea no where in part 119 are charity flights spoken about.

 

 

 

Also, the 6 (or 4 for charity) flights bit, it's interpreted as ~6 events, not 6 pick-ups/set-downs. The Mosquito Fest rides are one flight, SeaFair another, etc. And the bit about having floats over water appears to be true--regardless of whether it's a river or the Pacific Ocean, or it's just in your approach/departure or mid-route. That's what I remember reading when I looked into it earlier this summer.

 

 

Ah nope, floats are not required under part 91, in fact boatpix had a crash of a helicopter without floats in the water, the FAA said nothing, about floats at least.

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You need floats if you are further than gliding distance from the shoreline when carrying passengers under 91.147 as you have to comply with Part 136 subpart A.

Edited by Trans Lift
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You need floats if you are further than gliding distance from the shoreline when carrying passengers under 91.147 as you have to comply with Part 136 subpart A.

 

Ah I didn't see that one.

 

But in part (a) it says

 

"operator means any person conducting nonstop passenger-carrying flights for compensation or hire in accordance with 119.1(e)(2), 135.1(a)(5), or 121.1(d), of this chapter that begin and end at the same airport and are conducted within a 25-statute mile radius of that airport."

 

So the only part it applies to is e-2 or tours, and 135/121, other than that you do not need floats. Unless I'm reading it wrong.

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So the only part it applies to is e-2 or tours, and 135/121, other than that you do not need floats. Unless I'm reading it wrong.

 

I think you're right. So if you get the LOA under 119.1(e)(7), no floats...? Missed that part.

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I think you're right. So if you get the LOA under 119.1(e)(7), no floats...? Missed that part.

 

Yea there are millions of pictures and videos of float-less helicopters over water with passengers on board, I can even think of a few TV shows. And on the fixed wing side you don't need a sea plane to fly over water.

 

What I don't get is why e-7 exists in the first place, the restrictions being what they are.

Edited by Shaun
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Ok, We're going through this process at the moment with the FAA. Part 119 is for air carriers and commercial operators, as you said 121 and 135. For a company doing the non-stop commercial air tours and rides using their LOA issued under part 91.147, you have to comply with Part 136 Subpart A which is the whole section, not just the first paragraph (a). Read through it again.

 

119.1 (e)2 Is what you can do when common carriage is not involved. (6 FINE PEAS is how I learned it). So as far as I see it and the FAA seem to be the same way, you need floats when operating commercial air tours past the gliding distance to the shoreline.

 

It is kind of confusing though!

Edited by Trans Lift
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Ok, We're going through this process at the moment with the FAA. Part 119 is for air carriers and commercial operators, as you said 121 and 135. For a company doing the non-stop commercial air tours and rides using their LOA issued under part 91.147, you have to comply with Part 136 Subpart A which is the whole section, not just the first paragraph (a). Read through it again.

 

119.1 (e)2 Is what you can do when common carriage is not involved. (6 FINE PEAS is how I learned it). So as far as I see it and the FAA seem to be the same way, you need floats when operating commercial air tours past the gliding distance to the shoreline.

 

It is kind of confusing though!

 

Yea that's what I said. You need floats for tours, 135 and 121, but nothing else. oh 119 you're such a tease

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I think you're right. So if you get the LOA under 119.1(e)(7), no floats...? Missed that part.

 

You don't need an LOA for this part, just approval for the flight from the FSDO!

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Ha ha, ok. It is just an acronym to remember 119.1, what you can do without it being considered common carriage.

 

6 - Helicopter flights per year (e7)

 

F - Ferry flights

I - Instruction

N - Non-stop commercial air tours within a 25nm radius

E - Emergency mail

 

P - Parachute jumps

E - Election candidates, carriage of (91.321)

A - Aerial work (FABCHOP)

S - Sight seeing in a balloon

 

 

 

F - Fire fighting

A - Aerial photo or surveys B - Banner towing

C - Crop dusting, spraying, bird chasing

H - Heli construction

O - Just to make the word fabchop???????

P - Pipe/power line patrol

Edited by Trans Lift
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Cool. Here's the list of mnemonics that I've aggregated--yours is a first.

 

For 119.1(e)(7), we'd asked the local FSDO about that, and they referred us to 91.147 ("...any essential information that the office requests"). I didn't follow through on it to see if that's in fact what they wanted at the end of the day though.

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Cool list. There are a few differences to what I use like, SOFATACOS for the required eqiupment, FARMCOW, PALISS, ARROW the extra R is for Radio license (when operating outside the US). I really like some of your ones though. Good stuff!

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Cool list. There are a few differences to what I use like, SOFATACOS for the required eqiupment, FARMCOW, PALISS, ARROW the extra R is for Radio license (when operating outside the US). I really like some of your ones though. Good stuff!

 

Very cool list, but who can remember all the mnemonics?? Not me!

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Yea they need to be more illicit and laced with innuendo for me personally.

 

Whatever works! Of all the things I remember from grad school, I remember the mnemonic "Some Say Marry Money But My Brother Says Big Breasts Matter More", which is the order of motor and sensory cranial nerves. Some med students left it on the chalk board after their class. It's also about the only thing I know about the nervous system.

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