Robinson Operating Costs

[WestTexas]

I was wondering, for anyone who owns one, what the operating costs were for the 22 & 44. Are the figures that Robinson gives on their website accurate?

 

Also, does anyone know how busy flight schools are in Texas? On average how many people they run through in a year?

 

Thanks for the info.

[Stinky78]

Found it online from Robinsonheli.com and prices are quoted as of January 15th 2010.

 

Hope that helps you a bit.

[edspilot]

I posted this on another thread asking about costs of ownership vs. renting.

 

edspilot

 

 

I have a 2005 R22 Beta II and here are my cost for about 1 year of ownership.

 

Insurance (personal): $7,450.00 yearly

Hanger: $2,400.00 yearly

Annual Inspection total: $1,800.00

Scheduled 50/100 hours Inspections: $1,100.00

Fuel (120 hours x 9 gal p/h x 4.50 p/g): $4,860.00

Oil (average 1 qt each 8 hours x 8.50 p/q): $127.00

This year total: $19,537.00

 

Cost to buy (age & hour dependant): $120,000.00 to 160,000.00

 

This does not count setting aside anything for reserves and upgrades, just actual out of pocket expenses.

 

I do not know if it is cheaper to rent but I choose to own so I do not have to worry about how others might treat it and I never have a scheduling conflict.

 

Hope this gives you some reference.

[Goldy]

The only thing not covered in the other posts is unexpected maintenance issues. On the R22 I am a partner in we only had two items that didnt make it to the 2200 hour replacement mark. A small spring broke in the clutch actuator...you can't buy the spring, but you can buy a whole new actuator for 5 grand or so!! And because we do a lot of training in dry washes, the tail rotor was getting abrasion from the sand, so we had to replace it at 17 or 1800 hours.

 

If you don't overspeed the rotor, there isnt too much unexpected stuff that goes wrong. I would plan on 10K of unanticipated mechanical issues in each 2200 hour period.

[WestTexas]

Thanks for all the input! One other question, they have the estimated cost for the 2200 hr overhaul on their website but at 4400 isn't it quite a bit more?

[edspilot]

I think it is around $30,000.00 more than the R22. Mostly, the engine, I expect.

 

Having said that, the econmic downturn as it is, you might be able to trim some of the labor down as O/H facilities might want to keep their techs working.

 

On a R22 you are usually charged about $25,000.00 for the labor and about $30,000.00 for the R44, at least here around the Mid-Atlantic area.

 

I am sure there are some more knowledgable techs that can correct me if I am off base.

 

edspilot

[rick1128]

Thanks for all the input! One other question, they have the estimated cost for the 2200 hr overhaul on their website but at 4400 isn't it quite a bit more?

 

The 4400 hour is more due to the fact you have to replace the tail boom.

[HeloJunkie]

I have almost 600 hours on an R44 that I bought brand new in Feb 2008. Picked it up from the factory with 4 hours on the hobbs. After 2.5 years of ownership and a lot of flying in that time (for a private ship), I know exactly to the penny what it costs me to operate the ship because every single expense is tracked.

 

WITHOUT including anything for the 2200 hour overhaul, but including oil, fuel, maintenance, hanger rent, 50 hour, 100 hour, 300 hour, 500 hour and two annual inspections plus two pitch link bearings and a track and balance I am in it at $183.18/hr. I pay about $12k a year for insurance via Sutton James.

 

Now, this DOES NOT include several repairs that were done under warranty (twice with the air conditioning and some misc SBs that Frank paid for on my behalf).

 

This is my actual costs...your mileage may vary.....

[Goldy]

This is my actual costs...your mileage may vary.....

 

Richard, this does not include any financing or acquisition costs, correct?

[HeloJunkie]

Richard, this does not include any financing or acquisition costs, correct?

 

Correct - I paid cash so no financing.

 

By my guess (if I back out hanger) and add in the $80.83/hr reserve I am about $40/hr higher than Papa Frank suspects I should be at :-) But he gets a great price on fuel and uses less than I do..so maybe that's where it is at...

 

But according to him I should have 1,250 hours on my bird already at 500 hours a year!

 

:-)

[Goldy]

Correct - I paid cash so no financing.

 

By my guess (if I back out hanger) and add in the $80.83/hr reserve I am about $40/hr higher than Papa Frank suspects I should be at :-) But he gets a great price on fuel and uses less than I do..so maybe that's where it is at...

 

But according to him I should have 1,250 hours on my bird already at 500 hours a year!

 

:-)

 

Yeah, its very convenient how their estimated costs includes so much flight time a year. Makes those fixed costs seem not so bad after all !

 

I still think the best deal is to buy a ship, you get to keep the 5 year depreciation, and lease it to a flight school to make all the payments. If its close by, you can fly the ship at a well reduced rate, just have to live with their schedules.

[HeloJunkie]

Yeah, its very convenient how their estimated costs includes so much flight time a year. Makes those fixed costs seem not so bad after all !

 

I still think the best deal is to buy a ship, you get to keep the 5 year depreciation, and lease it to a flight school to make all the payments. If its close by, you can fly the ship at a well reduced rate, just have to live with their schedules.

 

Well, I figure it this way - I paid $405k for my ship, the local schools around here rent them for $595/hr - I have spent 600 hours flying mine, that would have cost me $357,000 just to rent it, instead I paid $157,800 (including overhaul) (plus the purchase), I get the deprecation, no scheduling conflicts, no worrying about who did the last full down and how badly they did it, or how high the rotor rpm actually went in the process....

 

So that's a $200,000 savings over renting with none of the headaches...when I hit 1200 hours, the machine will have paid for itself (actually more than paid for itself counting tax benefits) and I will still have 1,000 hours that I can fly it at a savings of over $330,000 for that last 1000 hours.

 

Of course, if I choose NOT to overhaul it at 2,200 hours, sell it run out, then I save an additional $176,000 ($80/hr * 2200 hrs) and whatever I get for it run out but chocked full or great avionics :-)

 

In any case, I agree with you Goldy, if you can buy - that is the cheapest way to make flight time, but it takes the financing capability to do so!

[Mikemv]

Does anyone have to replace the forward left cylinder at around 1300 to 1500 hours? If I remember correctly, this one gets less cooling and is a common replacement item. Mike

[HeloJunkie]

Mike -

 

I run the EDM800 which tracks and records (every 10 seconds) all CHTs and EGTs. I have not noticed any of the cylinders running any hotter than the others. My #5 cylinder tends to run a little cooler than all the rest, but the rest are all within a few degrees of one another.