Weight & Balance

[Super Petey-O]

To All,

 

I am an ex-mil pilot trying to make the transition to civ flying so please be gentle.

 

That said. Aside from what is stated in AC 120-27E reference aircraft weighing, can anyone tell me the requirement for currency on the weight and balance form contained in the logbook? I got into a discussion over the term "illegal" with a mechanic because the date for the most current W&B calcs for the helo (Schweizer 269C) that I was flying that day was 2001.

 

Thanks in advance for any and all advice/comments

 

Peter

[AngelFire_91]

To All,

 

I am an ex-mil pilot trying to make the transition to civ flying so please be gentle.

 

That said. Aside from what is stated in AC 120-27E reference aircraft weighing, can anyone tell me the requirement for currency on the weight and balance form contained in the logbook? I got into a discussion over the term "illegal" with a mechanic because the date for the most current W&B calcs for the helo (Schweizer 269C) that I was flying that day was 2001.

 

Thanks in advance for any and all advice/comments

 

Peter

 

As far as I know there is no currency for W&B as long as nothing has changed to the aircraft. If any component is added or removed, then a new W&B would have to be computed.

[rick1128]

To All,

 

I am an ex-mil pilot trying to make the transition to civ flying so please be gentle.

 

That said. Aside from what is stated in AC 120-27E reference aircraft weighing, can anyone tell me the requirement for currency on the weight and balance form contained in the logbook? I got into a discussion over the term "illegal" with a mechanic because the date for the most current W&B calcs for the helo (Schweizer 269C) that I was flying that day was 2001.

 

Thanks in advance for any and all advice/comments

 

Peter

 

It would depend on what regs the aircraft is being operated under. For Part 135, the aircraft has to be weighted every 3 years. For Part 91, it does not have to be weighed. If major changes are done to the aircraft and its equipment, the aircraft can be weighed or the weight and balance changes can be computed without actually weighing the aircraft.

[C of G]

It would depend on what regs the aircraft is being operated under. For Part 135, the aircraft has to be weighted every 3 years. For Part 91, it does not have to be weighed. If major changes are done to the aircraft and its equipment, the aircraft can be weighed or the weight and balance changes can be computed without actually weighing the aircraft.

 

 

Actually, the 36 months requirement is only for multi engine aircraft.

[iChris]

I got into a discussion over the term "illegal" with a mechanic because the date for the most current W&B calcs for the helo (Schweizer 269C) that I was flying that day was 2001.

 

Peter

 

No recurrent weighing or W&B Control Program required for your 269/300 for standard 91 or 135 operations.

 

Just keep your W&B Record and Equipment List up-to-date with what's actually installed in the aircraft. Both W&B Record and Equipment list should be in the aircraft in or alone with the RFM.

 

The currency requirements I've seen had to do with airplanes under FAR 125.91, Multiengine aircraft under 135.185, and government contract requirements.

 

Illegal:

 

1. Prohibited by law.

 

2. Prohibited by official rules:

 

That could be a mechanic "made-up" requirement. Go back and have him/her quote the regulation.

Edited December 7, 2010 by iChris

[Super Petey-O]

Actually, the 36 months requirement is only for multi engine aircraft.

 

 

103. How often are aircraft weighed?

 

a. Individual Aircraft Weighing Program. Aircraft are normally weighed at intervals of 36 calendar-months. An operator may, however, extend this weighing period for a particular model aircraft when pertinent records of actual routine weighing during the preceding period of operation show that weight and balance records accurately reflect aircraft weights and CG positions are within the cumulative limits specified for establishment of OEW (see paragraph 102). Under an individual aircraft weighing program, an increase should not be granted which would permit any aircraft to exceed 48 calendar-months since the last weighing, including when an aircraft is transferred from one operator to another. In the case of helicopters, increases should not exceed a time that is equivalent to the aircraft overhaul period.

 

NOTE: Per section 125.91(, no person may operate an airplane in a part 125 operation, unless the current empty weight and CG are calculated from the values established by an actual weighing of the airplane within the preceding 36 calendar-months.

[Super Petey-O]

No recurrent weighing or W&B Control Program required for your 269/300 for standard 91 or 135 operations.

 

Just keep your W&B Record and Equipment List up-to-date with what's actually installed in the aircraft. Both W&B Record and Equipment list should be in the aircraft in or alone with the RFM.

 

The currency requirements I've seen had to do with airplanes under FAR 125.91, Multiengine aircraft under 135.185, and government contract requirements.

 

Illegal:

 

1. Prohibited by law.

 

2. Prohibited by official rules:

 

That could be a mechanic "made-up" requirement. Go back and have him/her quote the regulation.

 

 

Ok a bit of confusion. I was the one who used the term illegal. This was based on the fact that one on my study manuals termed it "what documents do you need to be legal to fly?". The answer was A.R.R.O.W. I'm sure we all know the "W" stands for weight and balance. So based on my reply posted below about the 36 (48) month requirement, I made a comment that the W&B balance was not current.

[C of G]

103. How often are aircraft weighed?

 

a. Individual Aircraft Weighing Program. Aircraft are normally weighed at intervals of 36 calendar-months. An operator may, however, extend this weighing period for a particular model aircraft when pertinent records of actual routine weighing during the preceding period of operation show that weight and balance records accurately reflect aircraft weights and CG positions are within the cumulative limits specified for establishment of OEW (see paragraph 102). Under an individual aircraft weighing program, an increase should not be granted which would permit any aircraft to exceed 48 calendar-months since the last weighing, including when an aircraft is transferred from one operator to another. In the case of helicopters, increases should not exceed a time that is equivalent to the aircraft overhaul period.

 

NOTE: Per section 125.91(, no person may operate an airplane in a part 125 operation, unless the current empty weight and CG are calculated from the values established by an actual weighing of the airplane within the preceding 36 calendar-months.

 

 

The 36 month limit I was refereing to, was the 135 requirement:

 

§ 135.185 Empty weight and center of gravity: Currency requirement.

 

 

(a) No person may operate a multiengine aircraft unless the current empty weight and center of gravity are calculated from values established by actual weighing of the aircraft within the preceding 36 calendar months.

 

Paragraph (a) of this section does not apply to—

 

(1) Aircraft issued an original airworthiness certificate within the preceding 36 calendar months; and

 

(2) Aircraft operated under a weight and balance system approved in the operations specifications of the certificate holder.

 

 

 

 

I wouldn't even know what the "103" reference is from, nor know what a typical overhaul calander limit is, save for the 12 year on Robinsons.

 

 

Regarding a helcopter on a 121 certificate: They are more rare than rocking horse sh!t.

[Super Petey-O]

The 36 month limit I was refereing to, was the 135 requirement:

 

§ 135.185 Empty weight and center of gravity: Currency requirement.

 

 

(a) No person may operate a multiengine aircraft unless the current empty weight and center of gravity are calculated from values established by actual weighing of the aircraft within the preceding 36 calendar months.

 

Paragraph (a) of this section does not apply to—

 

(1) Aircraft issued an original airworthiness certificate within the preceding 36 calendar months; and

 

(2) Aircraft operated under a weight and balance system approved in the operations specifications of the certificate holder.

 

 

 

 

I wouldn't even know what the "103" reference is from, nor know what a typical overhaul calander limit is, save for the 12 year on Robinsons.

 

 

Regarding a helcopter on a 121 certificate: They are more rare than rocking horse sh!t.

 

LOL. The AC I'm using as a reference is AC 120-27E AIRCRAFT WEIGHT AND BALANCE CONTROL. I am going through the CFI course under 141 so I can use my GI Bill bennies. Maybe I'm paranoid from my days of check-rides with the Army and am over-thinking this whole thing. It was a topic you had to know. Acft was weighed every 3 years and the 365-4 was updated every 90 days, period.

 

Again, new to the civilian side of things and am just trying to do good and look sorta edgamuhkated.

[iChris]

Ok a bit of confusion. I was the one who used the term illegal. This was based on the fact that one on my study manuals termed it "what documents do you need to be legal to fly?". The answer was A.R.R.O.W. I'm sure we all know the "W" stands for weight and balance. So based on my reply posted below about the 36 (48) month requirement, I made a comment that the W&B balance was not current.

Don't be confused.

 

Your original question was:

 

"Aside from what is stated in AC 120-27E reference aircraft weighing, can anyone tell me the requirement for currency on the weight and balance form contained in the logbook?"

 

Answer: There are no W&B currency requirements for the actual weighing of a single engine helicopters.

 

Just keep your W&B Record and Equipment List up-to-date with what's actually installed in the aircraft.

 

This is done by keeping those records up-to-date by adding or subtracting items of equipment as they are added or removed from the aircraft. This is a bookkeeping function which doesn't require a physical weighing of the aircraft. If your helicopter was weighted 10 years ago and hasn't had any equipment changes or modifications [effecting W&B], you're legal.

 

Chart C—Basic Weight and Balance Record

Edited December 10, 2010 by iChris

[iChris]

Ok a bit of confusion. I was the one who used the term illegal. This was based on the fact that one on my study manuals termed it "what documents do you need to be legal to fly?". The answer was A.R.R.O.W. I'm sure we all know the "W" stands for weight and balance. So based on my reply posted below about the 36 (48) month requirement, I made a comment that the W&B balance was not current.

 

I understand (from your above post) you're going through a 141 CFI course. As a side note, what did that manual say about the two "R's" in A.R.R.O.W.?

[Shaun]

You also don't necessarily need to add or remove equipment to change the WB, sometimes new replacement parts weigh less than the old ones. Take an old R-22, overhaul it and the new parts might take 70 lbs off the gross weight.

 

I'd be a little suspicious of an aircraft with old WB records.

Edited December 11, 2010 by Shaun

[Super Petey-O]

I understand (from your above post) you're going through a 141 CFI course. As a side note, what did that manual say about the two "R's" in A.R.R.O.W.?

 

R = Registration Cert. (Required by FAA)

R = Restricted RDO permit (Required outside the US)

 

Taken from the Schweizer Helicopter Pilot Textbook