Steep approach into confined area

[StanFoster]

Here is a video of my Helicycle doing a steep approach into my confined area next to my stairshop. It is a little less dramatic than my flameout forced landing video. I have the camera mounted on the cabin door flange....I love the view of the collective, pedals and cyclic...but my camera mount wasnt rigid enough. That helicopter is smooth as glass...and this video makes it look like a mouse was inside one of my blade tips.

 

 

 

Stan

[Wally]

Here is a video of my Helicycle doing a steep approach into my confined area next to my stairshop. It is a little less dramatic than my flameout forced landing video. I have the camera mounted on the cabin door flange....I love the view of the collective, pedals and cyclic...but my camera mount wasnt rigid enough. That helicopter is smooth as glass...and this video makes it look like a mouse was inside one of my blade tips.

 

 

 

Stan

 

Me, I like a lot slower forward, no flare at all- but never had any doubts watching your flick. Nice one, Stan.

[apiaguy]

what is the min. width between the trees on your departure course?

and what kind of camera do you use?

Edited December 7, 2010 by apiaguy

[Trans Lift]

Yeah I prefer a bit slower too and no flare also. You have a nice area to play in though. Looks fun, I'd like a go in one of those toys!

[gary-mike]

what is the min. width between the trees on your departure course?

 

That was what I was thinking! The path through the trees looked like more pucker factor than the aproach to me.

 

I was checking out the helicycles the other day, they seem reasonably priced.(for the kit) What is your estimation of cost from start to finish?

[StanFoster]

Apia- The chopper channel is 70 feet wide, and the centerline is clearly marked with buried paint bucket lids. My had my instructor check it out and he said it was fine. It looks narrow in the video. My camera is a Sony Cybershot.

 

Mike- The cost of my Helicycle over the kit price which includes the turbine, plus painting, avionics, battery, seat belt, nav lights, strobe light, and that's about it.

That was what I was thinking! The path through the trees looked like more pucker factor than the aproach to me.

 

I was checking out the helicycles the other day, they seem reasonably priced.(for the kit) What is your estimation of cost from start to finish?

[lelebebbel]

I agree with the others here. Judging from the angle, speed and collective position, your disc was unloaded the whole way down, followed by a big pull at the bottom. Worked in this case, but it could end in tears one day, maybe in a less powerful or heavier machine, when you won't have enough power to stop the descent.

IMO, the problem with this flight path is that you will not know for sure, until it is way too late to do anything about it.

 

Does your machine have any sort of a power/torque indicator? Try to come in slower, you will find that you can get in the same area using far less power. It also looks like you could come in at a more shallow angle, although the picture might be deceiving.

 

The departure path looks ok to me, plenty of clearance judging by the shadow.

 

This is meant to be constructive criticism by the way, i'm not trying to bag your flying or anything like that.

Edited December 7, 2010 by lelebebbel

[StanFoster]

Guys- I appreciate the constructive critique. I post stuff here like my flameout and this not to receive kudos, but to have your experience along with me . I fly a single seat helicopter, and am a new pilot who probably won't have an instructor alongside me except until

my flight review once every two years. So I am learning a lot by drawing your comments as you ride along on my cyber seat. I am not thin skinned and I listen. I came to the same conclusion as I was doing this steep approach. I should have come in with a slower descent and forward speed, as I did have to pull more collective than necessary and a little flare also at the end. I was monitoring my descent and was not near a VRS , and I did have a lot of reserve power. But, I can see if say I had done this in a two place and was bringing in a heavy passenger, then I may be surprised at the end coming in a little too hot. Thanks everyone , and I have many more videos to critique. I am becoming a better pilot listening to you all, and your words can never harm me , but do indeed help me. Stan

I agree with the others here. Judging from the angle, speed and collective position, your disc was unloaded the whole way down, followed by a big pull at the bottom. Worked in this case, but it could end in tears one day, maybe in a less powerful or heavier machine, when you won't have enough power to stop the descent.

IMO, the problem with this flight path is that you will not know for sure, until it is way too late to do anything about it.

 

Does your machine have any sort of a power/torque indicator? Try to come in slower, you will find that you can get in the same area using far less power. It also looks like you could come in at a more shallow angle, although the picture might be deceiving.

 

The departure path looks ok to me, plenty of clearance judging by the shadow.

 

This is meant to be constructive criticism by the way, i'm not trying to bag your flying or anything like that.

[Wally]

Yo Stan- Not harshin' yer mellow with the critiques, man. We cool, Bro?

 

My favorite technique/tip is to find a speed/attitude/power combination that I can hit at 300' (above terminal hover) that I can hold unchanged until the terminal hover/touchdown if going to the dirt. I can't give you specific fuselage angle that holds the normal (school's "steep approach", mostly I do confined areas/pinnacles on my job) approach angle, but I know it's initiated at 60 knots in a 206, and 70 in an Astar, and whatever power that holds the angle at weight. I hold this until the 'shudder' at ETL, at which point if I'm really heavy/power limited, I slow waaaaaay down and creep the vertical into the confined area and/or touchdown, no such thing as too slow. That keeps you out of VRS, etc., and it's easier to stop/adjust/adapt with limited power. Philosophically, flares are counter-productive unless you're an airplane or autorotating. If you flare besides those two situations, you made a mistake in planning or you're cowboying. Yes, sometimes...

 

I am a big fan of the vertical in and out, unless I have a surveyed and known departure path like the video's 'chopper channel(?)'. All in all, looked like a good day, nice flight in a very nice ride.

Edited December 7, 2010 by Wally

[Mikemv]

Stan, it was great talking with you on the phone yesterday and so glad you called!

 

How about some consideration for forced landing areas on the way in?

 

Why not over fly the clear path inbound on a steep approach angle. We should be into the wind before giving up ETL but do not have to be into the wind during the entire approach.

 

Also, many good points in previous posts about speed and flare and such.

 

Is there a flag or windsock on the property?

 

Best wishes,

 

MikeMV

[Gomer Pylot]

My approach technique varies, depending on the site and the situation. If it's a confined area I've never been into, I go really slow, because IMO the thing most likely to hurt me is an unseen obstacle or wire. Wires are everywhere, and will definitely hurt you. If it's a site I go into regularly, I'll be a little faster, because engine failure at near zero airspeed will also hurt you. I try to play the odds, and avoid the most likely disaster. I don't keep a constant rate of descent all the way down, either. I try to keep it around 500'/min until I get to a couple of hundred feet above the landing site, assuming level terrain and no other obstacles, because there are no wires above that height where I usually fly. When I hit that altitude, more or less, I slow it back to ~250'/min, and keep that if it's a site I know, but if it's a scene, I'll slow way back when I get near the trees, and go the rest of the way at a crawl. I want to be able to stop my descent completely almost immediately, so that I can see a wire only a few feet above it and stop. That requires a very slow descent rate, because inertia is a strong force. That's why you need a lot of power to stop a fast descent on the bottom - inertia keeps the aircraft moving in the same direction, and the faster you're going, the longer it takes to stop and the further you travel even with max power. It's exactly the same thing as stopping a car, a truck, or a train on the ground. The heavier you are, and the faster you're going, the longer it takes to stop. Fast enough and heavy enough, and there simply isn't enough power to stop no matter how much you overtorque it. It's proportional to the mass, but the square of the velocity. Therefore I want my velocity to be very low well before I hit the ground, or the wires.

Edited December 8, 2010 by Gomer Pylot

[StanFoster]

Gomer- Thanks for your excellent reply. I learn the more I post here. A lot of this stuff is really getting hard wired into my brain. Stan

My approach technique varies, depending on the site and the situation. If it's a confined area I've never been into, I go really slow, because IMO the thing most likely to hurt me is an unseen obstacle or wire. Wires are everywhere, and will definitely hurt you. If it's a site I go into regularly, I'll be a little faster, because engine failure at near zero airspeed will also hurt you. I try to play the odds, and avoid the most likely disaster. I don't keep a constant rate of descent all the way down, either. I try to keep it around 500'/min until I get to a couple of hundred feet above the landing site, assuming level terrain and no other obstacles, because there are no wires above that height where I usually fly. When I hit that altitude, more or less, I slow it back to ~250'/min, and keep that if it's a site I know, but if it's a scene, I'll slow way back when I get near the trees, and go the rest of the way at a crawl. I want to be able to stop my descent completely almost immediately, so that I can see a wire only a few feet above it and stop. That requires a very slow descent rate, because inertia is a strong force. That's why you need a lot of power to stop a fast descent on the bottom - inertia keeps the aircraft moving in the same direction, and the faster you're going, the longer it takes to stop and the further you travel even with max power. It's exactly the same thing as stopping a car, a truck, or a train on the ground. The heavier you are, and the faster you're going, the longer it takes to stop. Fast enough and heavy enough, and there simply isn't enough power to stop no matter how much you overtorque it. It's proportional to the mass, but the square of the velocity. Therefore I want my velocity to be very low well before I hit the ground, or the wires.

[SBuzzkill]

What altitude did you start the approach? Just curious as it's hard to judge depth from a video.