What is the ideal amount of money to have at your disposal before beginning your training as a career pilot?

[cthomasgunter]

Hello Vertical Reference Community. My name is Chad. I'm a 24 year old currently living and working overseas in Seoul, South Korea. I've been here for nearly a year and a half now trying to save up some cash because I am considering a career in aviation. A few months ago I took a couple chopper lessons in my hometown of Charleston SC through a school called Charleston Helicopters. This was a great experience so I am finding it likely that flying helicopters for a living could be in my future.

 

My question (like many others I have read on VR) is financial. What is the ideal amount of cash to have on hand if you are serious about starting a career with helicopters. Clearly, having $50,000 or $60,000 would be great but that is tough to put up. The fella I met at Charleston Helicopters said that on occasion they have people come through who have just left a job and are looking to fly. They may bring in $30,000.

 

I'm looking at returning to America with $35,000. Is this a good start or should I try to get some more cash together before making the steps to a career? I can save up some more if necessary, I have a decent job. I'm just ready to get started and getting sick of traveling and living overseas. That would result in more loans. I already have $16,000 from university so I suppose I would have to tack some more on that.

 

In short, I'm looking for any advice. Should I fly back home in 8 months with $35,000 and go for it by taking out loans and working some sort of shift work?

 

Did you find that paying off the loans was feasible? How much cash do you think it will end up being in the long run (from student to CFI)?

 

How did you do it? What did you come in with? What would you've done different?

 

I realize that entrance to this field seems to be marred by financial difficulties and sacrifice, in a sense I feel I've already started on that road living and working overseas to put up this $35,000. Let me know what you think. I've given a solid explanation of my current financial status.

 

Thank you for your time and advice. I would greatly value and appreciate any responses I may receive.

[Rogue]

PAY CASH all the way through.

[ADRidge]

What Rogue said. The more cash you can save while you're overseas, the better. 35,000 is GREAT, don't get me wrong, but more is always better.

[Rogue]

More in line with your question -

 

If you could use a break in your job, come home, pay cash for your Private then reevaluate at that time.

[Shaun]

The longer your training takes the more expensive it will be. I think it's best to save up and do it all at once, but even then it's very risky to zero out your savings.

 

Avoid loans, the payments will kill you, this isn't a college degree, you're likely to not have a job at the end of it and private loans will not care. Even if you lose all your limbs you will still have to make payments.

[Rogue]

I don't know if I subscribe to the longer it takes the more it will cost theory.

 

My personal experience, I added on heli at 23 hours - which I totally credit to my super experienced and awesome instructor. I flew for a couple of hours, then didn't fly again for about a year. I spent three years total working on it. Some of my best performances were after having been out of circulation for a couple of months.

 

I think that is something that depends on the student and can't be covered by a catch all blanket statement.

 

In my experience you will pay A LOT more by taking lessons from an inexperienced instructor. I wasted a lot of time and money flying around in airplanes with inexperienced instructors. Once I found and was able to switch to a highly experienced instructor ( read: ATP and over 10k hours ) I progressed as rapidly as my checkbook would allow.

Edited December 9, 2010 by Rogue

[helonorth]

Three years and 23 hours? Who did your checkride? Back to the question: The amount of money that would be best, would of course, be all of it. I would start training now but keep the job until you are an established instructor building some decent hours. Be prepared for the long haul as jobs for pilots with 1500 hours and no turbine time are a rare commodity. I would say at least get your private and then reevaluate. And yes, you will need a good instructor, but if you don't pick things up real fast, no instructor in the world can speed things up. Plenty of so-so or even very bad higher time instructors. Remember, you have to have 150 hours before you are even eligible to take the commercial ride. Don't forget to squeeze the instrument in there. Good luck.

[Rogue]

Three years and 23 hours? Who did your checkride?

 

Uhh the DPE, only got to have 3 hours in the last 90 days there champ. Might wanna brush up on your FARs.

 

"I added on heli at 23 hours "

 

Another reason I endorse highly experienced instructors

Edited December 9, 2010 by Rogue

[Boatpix]

Uhh the DPE, only got to have 3 hours in the last 90 days there champ. Might wanna brush up on your FARs.

 

"I added on heli at 23 hours "

 

Another reason I endorse highly experienced instructors

[kodoz]

In my experience you will pay A LOT more by taking lessons from an inexperienced instructor. I wasted a lot of time and money flying around in airplanes with inexperienced instructors.

 

Me too. The inexperienced time-builder (systematic approach to finding an instructor and school.

[supergokougt]

i like the reevaluation after private idea.

 

do instrument before commercial, and take the instrument instructor written the same time as instrument written - i biffed that one.

 

- although I don't know where things fit with that recent letter and instrument/commercial time.

 

plan to get at least 200 hours since cfi in Robinson needs that. a lot of people I spoke to wanted me to have 300 hours for their insurance, but make a good showing at your school because there will be a spot for the first job.

 

a school with one ship and many students going for the career goal might give you a lot of competition for that first job.

 

with all that said I got to 200 hours with $70000. pay as you go and buy small blocks like this one school gave me 100 if i purchased 1000. i knew i would fly that amount. also get a good credit card with awesome rewards. i got flights, ipods and the best one was cash back!!! but pay your credit card bill.

[helonorth]

Uhh the DPE, only got to have 3 hours in the last 90 days there champ. Might wanna brush up on your FARs.

 

"I added on heli at 23 hours "

 

Another reason I endorse highly experienced instructors

I didn't say you didn't have enough time, sport. I asked who did your ride because it doesn't sound plausible. And who was the DPE? Someone other than your instructor?

[Boatpix]

If you want to be a career pilot I would suggest you will need to pay about $75,000 in training expenses to get to CFII, but the key is finding a job!

 

I have a 141 school and I like to keep a student in a job and have them pay after each lesson while living in their own house. But it might be cheaper to come to our school in Ft Lauderdale as if you are in our career program (which will cost you $75,000 to get PPL, CPL, IR, CFI) we'll guarantee you get the private for under $11,000: http://www.helicopteracademy.com/training/PPL%28H%29.htm I've had students do zero to ppl in 28 days so it depends if you can take some time off to get the first rating?

 

Most people pay a LOT more and then jammer on about how great the school was but the truth is the helicopters, books and exams are the same everywhere. It's all really the same much like every college uses the same books and exams, too. But college and helicopter schools don't give you a job usually, but only our school guarantees you a job.

 

If you don't get a job you might as well have spent $75,000 on jetskis and women, right?

 

Look carefully at the dual rate you are paying as these hourly rates can vary wildly. Our prices are based upon $250/hour and I don't know of anyone that has cheaper rates. Silver State Helicopters had a program that was $70,000 and if you divided that by the 200 hours you were to receive it worked out to $350/hour. Many schools hit you with all sorts of fees for insurance, enrollement and the like but not all schools are like that.

 

You will find one helicopter in Charleston for training and that's about it as helicotpers are sparse in that region. After you are trained you will likely have to move to find a job; you will find a lot more helicopter in Florida and California.

[Eggbeater]

I think the issue for you comes down to timing. The most important thing about starting all this is to stack the odds in your favor that you will get a job at the end of your training. As I'm sure you are well aware, things are pretty grim, even for those people who have 1500 hours PIC. There are plenty of people out there who paid for the full program and might never be paid to fly due to the job market.

 

I paid for my training mostly with loans, and I would do it again in a heartbeat. The reason again comes down to timing - loans helped me finish my training quickly, get a job as an instructor, and move right into commercial flying before this economic collapse occurred. If I paid in cash, I would probably just be finishing my training and not have a very good chance of getting a job.

 

It is for this very reason that I think you should avoid taking out too much in loans right now. Now is a good time to be working a steady job and waiting for things to get better. Plenty of people have stated here that now would be a great time to be training because this economy can't go on like this for much longer and when things get better they want to be ready with their training complete. But that was a year ago, and things are still looking bad.

 

With how much training costs, if it were me, I would wait until the economy actually started to improve noticeably, because you really only get one shot at this instructing thing. The likelihood of ever getting a flight instruction job decreases substantially the longer you wait. The costs of keeping current enough to teach maneuvers will become very cost prohibitive.

 

Why give up a good job where you are saving money to enter a notoriously difficult job market? And why use loans that will make life more difficult financially at a time when you won't be making much money? Loans are a great tool, mine personally are very manageable and I'm paying most of them off early. But I couldn't imagine doing it without a full time well paying job, and you have to assume the worst in this economy.

 

I actually think that getting your private with your current cash isn't a terrible idea. If you are getting as sick of work as you say, maybe take a couple months to get the rating, and use that as motivation to go back to that job and keep working till things get better. As long as too much time doesn't pass between your private and commercial rating, it should only take a couple hours to reach the same proficiency. Only do this if you are sure you can walk right back into your previous job though. Hope this helps...

[Inferno]

Ideally, you should have enough to pay for all the training + some extra for living expenses. Now realistically, this is not going to be common... Just don't find yourself in a situation where you have 170 hours and are out of money but can't finish your training....

 

Also, never, never, never, pay for all of it up front....

 

EDIT

 

And Tom, just $75,000 eh? When I finished my CFI-i at 200 hours a year or so ago, my total out of pocket was just a bit over $50k.... I also started my job the day after my SFAR endorsement. And doesn't your guaranteed job only get that person to 400 hours? It's hard to tell the way you word it on your website... How does that help them when most all job postings are for 1500 hour pilots?

 

EDIT+

 

Oh, and the last 100 hours while you make students pay $150/hr to fly photo ops making you money. Why should they do that when they can pay almost the same amount to fly PIC in a 206 or other turbine doing traffic with some of the people in LA? Maybe it's just me, but I would rather have 100 hours turbine in the bag than 100 hours doing photo shoots while cooking in an r22 in the Florida sun....

[Goldy]

If you study hard and look around you could get your private for 10K. You can then add 200 hours and your commercial for another 35K or so. Somewhere in there, you could have done your instrument for another 5-6K. CFI another 5K or less. So, you should be able to get from private to CFI with 300 hours TT for 50-55K total.

 

If you're paying 70-75K, its probably too much. This is all based on the R22 and sometimes you have to get creative.

 

When you want to come back to the states, I'll PM you a spreadsheet.

[arotrhd]

If you want to be a career pilot I would suggest you will need to pay about $75,000 in training expenses to get to CFII, but the key is finding a job!

 

Or a REALLY wealthy girlfriend/wife.

 

75K seems a bit steep. If that's the case, go in on a partnership on a helo and run your hours in it. Quite a few here have done that and moved up the ladder fairly quickly. Additionally, most of them gained a valuable education in understanding the operational costs and airworthiness and regs and...

 

As long as we're headed down this path of what the ideal amount of money to have is, well, it's best summed up:

 

"It's easy to make a million in aviation. Just start with 2 million."

 

If this is about passion, then it's priceless.

 

-WATCH FOR THE PATTERNS, WATCH FOR THE WIRES-

[helonorth]

Uhh the DPE, only got to have 3 hours in the last 90 days there champ. Might wanna brush up on your FARs.

 

"I added on heli at 23 hours "

 

Another reason I endorse highly experienced instructors

Speaking of brushing up on the FAR's, it's 60 days (or two calender months), sport. What's that again about the highly experienced instructors?

Edited December 12, 2010 by helonorth

[IFLY]

To answer your original question...2.5 mil should do it. Pick-up a R-66 and come on down to Tucson!

 

 

Jerry

[Rogue]

Speaking of brushing up on the FAR's, it's 60 days (or two calender months), sport. What's that again about the highly experienced instructors?

 

Ok Capn

 

1 - Yes you are correct, good catch - actually this edit reflects the CURRENT wording of the CFR - it now only states 2 months, no mention of 60 days. - so no, you are not correct.

2 - My instructor didn't say it, I DID.

3 - This is the second time you inferred that someone you don't know is some kind of liar. Please tell me on what basis you have determined that I have nothing better to do with my life then to come on VR and make up lies about where I've been and what I've done. Why isn't it plausible, because you are incapable of doing it yourself or because you are incapable of teaching someone how to do it ? I'll make it real simple - I have more information ( against the advisement of my military command - can you say OPSEC? ) posted about me in my profile page then you do - so who is playing the anonymous card here.

Edited December 14, 2010 by Rogue

[arotrhd]

OK folks, let's get over the flaming and get back to the issue. Move to the rumor forum at justhelos if you're going to carry on.

Kinda getting sick of this sh!t here...have some higher respect for this forum and members please. Moderators are always standing by....

 

-WATCH FOR THE PATTERNS, WATCH FOR THE WIRES-

[Rogue]

Roger that, I was just trying to give some hope to some people out there and basically have people calling me a liar and asking for validation.

 

Here is all the validation needed - I came on these forums several years ago trying to figure out a way to make my dreams of becoming a helicopter pilot true. I took it on blind faith after reading someone's post on here that it is indeed possible to add-on a helicopter rating and find work as a commercial helicopter pilot with a measly fifty hours of experience. I didn't ask the poster to validate his life to me and I made that elusive possibility my reality.

 

If I had got in line with the rest of the stepford children I would still be trying to figure out how to pay back my zero to hero loans.

 

I still remember how many people also gave Fry a hard time about his SSH criticism.

 

I have nothing to prove here, I'm not selling anything. Just trying to give hope to people that there ARE other ways of pursuing this dream.

[helonorth]

Ok Capn

 

1 - Yes you are correct, good catch - actually this edit reflects the CURRENT wording of the CFR - it now only states 2 months, no mention of 60 days. - so no, you are not correct.

2 - My instructor didn't say it, I DID.

3 - This is the second time you inferred that someone you don't know is some kind of liar. Please tell me on what basis you have determined that I have nothing better to do with my life then to come on VR and make up lies about where I've been and what I've done. Why isn't it plausible, because you are incapable of doing it yourself or because you are incapable of teaching someone how to do it ? I'll make it real simple - I have more information ( against the advisement of my military command - can you say OPSEC? ) posted about me in my profile page then you do - so who is playing the anonymous card here.

Well, if you want to get technical, it states: "two calendar months"...oh never mind.

[Rogue]

wasn't tryin to be any more then I needed to be

[IFLY]

Well, if you want to get technical, it states: "two calendar months"...oh never mind.