Damage to Helicopter, Emergency Landing

[Snowman]

Just thought it would be interesting to see what people have been through.

Edited December 10, 2010 by Snowman

[RkyMtnHI]

Snowman.. this is a great idea.. i was wondering the same thing.

 

thanks,

 

dp

[ADRidge]

I'll go first. When I was learning hover autos as a wee pre-PPL student pilot, I bent the skids pretty badly in a -22. I was flying with an instructor I'd never flown with before, he didn't really explain hover autos too well, and I just didn't ask the right questions.

 

We started the day with a normal approach, then a steep approach, then a straight in autorotation. I think like my 3rd one ever. We moved on to hovering autos, and my instructor (never flown with before, remember) said "they're the same basic principle as a straight-in..."

 

It's funny as a CFI candidate to think about this story now... but I took his words to heart. 3 foot hover, eyes out front, 3,2,1 and I SLAMMED that collective down. Then I lifted it up to cushion. The helicopter hit the ground, then came up and slightly nose-forward. We lost RRPM, came down slightly nose-low and then settled. I knew in my heart of hearts I, at 14 hours total time, had just bought a helicopter. My instructor looked at me and said "that was not good" and we checked everything. Air-taxied back to the school, and I went home.

 

I think it took me a week to be convinced that I should even consider getting back in a helicopter.

[Eric Hunt]

ADRidge, that is why a school should never teach those 2 sequences in the same lesson.

 

My experience? A night touchdown auto in a B206 where the ground was 6" higher than expected. Result, bounce. And another bounce. And then the final crunch, which spread the skids, rocked the pylon mounts, and the blade came down and chopped off the tail boom, which fell on the ground behind me. Therefore I have ticked Hard Landing, Tail Boom Strike, and Yes, Caused Damage.

 

I will be VERY surprised if anybody has really had LTE, unless it was in an old B206 with the small tail rotor. LTE has become a huge urban myth and now anybody who stuffs up and runs out of pedal blames LTE. Anything made by Frank Robinson will NEVER suffer from LTE, as he was a tail rotor specialist and the rotors on the 22 and 44 are unusually powerful.

[Goldy]

Anything made by Frank Robinson will NEVER suffer from LTE, as he was a tail rotor specialist and the rotors on the 22 and 44 are unusually powerful.

 

You think the R44 is powerful? You should fly an R66 ! Huge tail rotor authority with a re-designed tail. So good in fact, rumor is they may make a change to future R44's to the same design.

 

Back to the post. I was in the ship when we had a tail strike, just wasn't flying it at the time. You should have put up "Near Misses" as an option then I could have marked it. Less than 6 feet to a head on with a Mooney at 300 AGL...not real fun.

[SBuzzkill]

ADRidge, that is why a school should never teach those 2 sequences in the same lesson.

 

I will be VERY surprised if anybody has really had LTE, unless it was in an old B206 with the small tail rotor. LTE has become a huge urban myth and now anybody who stuffs up and runs out of pedal blames LTE. Anything made by Frank Robinson will NEVER suffer from LTE, as he was a tail rotor specialist and the rotors on the 22 and 44 are unusually powerful.

 

I've experienced it in an OH-58A and it was pretty intense.

[lelebebbel]

I will be VERY surprised if anybody has really had LTE, unless it was in an old B206 with the small tail rotor. LTE has become a huge urban myth and now anybody who stuffs up and runs out of pedal blames LTE.

Yep, kind of like VRS, except replace "Left Pedal" with "Power".

 

I've had a Tail Strike while doing a practice touchdown Auto in an R22 on grass. Tried to bleed off "just a little bit more" airspeed before leveling it out and got a bit too low... funny, it feels just like a light push in the back. The student didn't even realize something had happened.

There is an extensive tailboom inspection required after a Tailskid or "Stinger" strike. I got lucky, only the stinger itself was bent.

At least now I know exactly how close I am.

Edited December 12, 2010 by lelebebbel

[Goldy]

I've had a Tail Strike while doing a practice touchdown Auto in an R22 on grass. Tried to bleed off "just a little bit more" airspeed before leveling it out and got a bit too low... funny, it feels just like a light push in the back. The student didn't even realize something had happened.

There is an extensive tailboom inspection required after a Tailskid or "Stinger" strike. I got lucky, only the stinger itself was bent.

At least now I know exactly how close I am.

 

Even easier to do that in an HP version with the straight tail..I think your student would have really known if the tail rotor had struck the grass!

[iChris]

ADRidge, that is why a school should never teach those 2 sequences in the same lesson.

 

I will be VERY surprised if anybody has really had LTE, unless it was in an old B206 with the small tail rotor. LTE has become a huge urban myth and now anybody who stuffs up and runs out of pedal blames LTE. Anything made by Frank Robinson will NEVER suffer from LTE, as he was a tail rotor specialist and the rotors on the 22 and 44 are unusually powerful.

I have to stop you on that " urban myth" statement. It's misleading and maybe misunderstood by many. Loss of tail rotor effectiveness (LTE), in and of itself, is no myth. There's also no myth about too many accidents being blamed on LTE. However, there are some real myths related to LTE like the three below:

 

 

1. LTE is a condition of the tail rotor stalling

 

 

2. LTE is the result of running out of left pedal (or power pedal).

 

 

3. LTE can be experienced by any conventional helicopter, within its normal operating limitations.

 

 

Simply stated, loss of tail rotor effectiveness (LTE) is the aerodynamic result of the tail rotors inability to produce enough thrust to stop the existing yaw rate, for what ever reason.

Edited December 12, 2010 by iChris

[Eric Hunt]

Chris, I never denied the existence of LTE, simply said it happened only in old B206 with small T/R.

 

But anybody who has had a surprise from a tail rotor now says the mantra "LTE" and is absolved of blame, because now it is the aircraft's fault.

[gary-mike]

But anybody who has had a surprise from a tail rotor now says the mantra "LTE" and is absolved of blame, because now it is the aircraft's fault.

 

With 10years experience as an aircraft maintainer I had come to believe this was something taught in pilot training....Ask a fighter pilot, they never operate a jet outside it's operational envelope

[IFLY]

With 23 years experience as an aircraft maintainer...yea right.

 

Jerry

[gary-mike]

With 23 years experience as an aircraft maintainer...yea right.

 

Jerry

 

I loved to call them out, kinda hard for them to argue with the data downloaded directly from the jet, they still try sometimes though.

[Snowman]

You guys are killing me and making me feel better all at the same time. I started this post because I had a hard landing and wasn’t to sure where to go from there. It happened four months ago, I was out soloing and ran out of left pedal; totally lost it, tried an hovering auto and came down hard, split the skids and bent the frame. After it happened I found myself saying “LTE” for a couple of days, then my CFI and some of my friends set me straight and I took the time to reread my training book and found out how wrong I was to use the term “LTE”. I walked away, so it was a good landing! I plan on getting back to training after the New Year. I really want to thank everyone who shared there experiences in this post, it made me feel a little better about that day. I will always feel bad about the damage to the helicopter; I really liked that ship.

Edited December 16, 2010 by Snowman

[MileHi480B]

Not sure why this is showing up as "new" when I log in?

[Tarantula]

New poll responses will bring up old topics in addition to new posts.

[Spike]

After some advance L3/L4 training, I learned many of the accidents I’ve seen (on video) which I considered SWP/VRS were actually LTE crashes. LTE is more common than I ever thought and is something I’m constantly vigilant of no matter the make or model being flown.

 

ANY make or model………

 

[Rupert]

All non-tandem rotor helicopters will demonstrate LTE in the right circumstances.

 

If you fly long enough, high enough, hot enough or heavy enough you'll eventually experience LTE.

 

The problem with LTE comes from perceiving it as an emergency rather than as an inconvenience or a surprise.

 

In a left-pedaled helicopter, full right pedal will climb the helicopter up and away from the terrain and any danger.

 

Nothing bad has happened until the helicopter hits something.

 

Spinning won't hurt the helicopter.

 

Get away from the ground and obstacles.

 

Push in the right pedal to the stop, divert all that horsepower to the main rotor and climb.

 

When you get high enough, lower the collective a little, stop the yaw with left pedal and fly away.

 

The spin doesn't get that bad and the pilot should have no difficulty remaining oriented to the desired direction of flight.

 

Holding in left pedal, though, continues to rob the main rotor of power and to aggravate the situation.

 

The spin won't kill you.

 

Hitting something or trying to do a high hovering auto to a pinnacle or a ledge will kill you.

 

If the helicopter spins to the right due to LTE you've already lost the left-pedal contest.

 

Go with full right pedal and climb away from the ground.

 

Do I expect some negative responses to this post?

 

Yes.

[SBuzzkill]

Spike that is an incredible video.