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Do you need instrument cert?


WestTexas

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If someone was going to go fly for a company that does surveys, moves animals , etc do you need it or do you just need commercial and private? Also, on average how long would it take to get ppl and cpl (if instrument not needed or add it if it is) going full time? I know this varies by school and skill and etc. but I'm just looking for an estimate. Thanks.

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I spoke with a fellow who does that, and he wants a CFI rating. Insurance for a 200 hour Commercial guy is ridiculously higher than for a 220 hour CFI. Instrument would be good to have, but probably not necessary.

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If someone was going to go fly for a company that does surveys, moves animals , etc do you need it or do you just need commercial and private? Also, on average how long would it take to get ppl and cpl (if instrument not needed or add it if it is) going full time? I know this varies by school and skill and etc. but I'm just looking for an estimate. Thanks.

 

First of all, you will need a commercial certificate if these jobs are done for compensation or hire. As for training, I would plan at least 6 months at minimum and that would depend on where the school is, etc. Adding the instrument will not really add too much more time to the process, if at all. It sounds like you are just starting the process. The way the FARs are written, you would first have to get a PPL and then upgrade to a CPL. You can only hold 1 FAA pilot certificate. The grade of the certificate would be the highest rating you hold. If there are ratings held at a lower grade of certificate, these would be listed as privileges. It is not uncommon to see a pilot certificate with, for example, Airline Transport Pilot (ATP) Airplane Multi-engine land, with Commercial pilot privileges Airplane Single engine land and private pilot privileges glider.

 

As for the instrument rating in utility work, it is becoming more and more a requirement for employers. In many cases it is required by their clients.

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It seems a lot of operators flying VFR only helicopters/missions, are requiring the Instrument these days. Its an insurance thing (as usual), and of course we're the ones who have to pay! <_<

 

As far as getting your ratings. During the old "Cfi Factory" days, they were pumping them out in about six months (all the way to Cfii). The quickest we had for the Private was one month. Of course you have to have all the funds first, to do it that quickly! :)

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Doing your instrument rating shouldn't really add any time to your total training time. I'd definitely get your instrument rating now, you'll regret it later if you don't. To come back and get your instrument rating later in your career (which I've seen done), you'll pay a lot more money since you'll be buying all your instrument time over and above the 150 total and 100 PIC that you bought for your commercial. If you do it now, you'll likely still get your commercial at around the minimums, but have an instrument rating also. I know a few guys that didn't get their instrument rating and really regret it...

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It seems a lot of operators flying VFR only helicopters/missions, are requiring the Instrument these days. Its an insurance thing (as usual), and of course we're the ones who have to pay!

 

Actually, a lot of this is not being driven by the insurance companies. It is the oil companies that primarily started this. These large oil companies have safety departments that investigate and research every accident, incident and problem. Then they develop procedures and policies to help reduce them. Even when the oil company has no direct involvement on a contract, they will require and enforce these policies. Mostly because the oil company realizes that even if they have no direct involvement, they can and will be sued if something happens. So they take steps to reduce the risk. The insurance companies and many operators have noticed the safety improvements and have made them their own.

 

Things like HUMS and flight tracking equipment were originally oil company requirements.

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Actually, a lot of this is not being driven by the insurance companies. It is the oil companies that primarily started this...

 

At least with them, it makes sense (flying a hundred miles out to sea, in all kinds of weather), I can see where the IR could be helpful.

 

However, when someone doing photos in an R22 says you need it...?

<_<

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At least with them, it makes sense (flying a hundred miles out to sea, in all kinds of weather), I can see where the IR could be helpful.

 

However, when someone doing photos in an R22 says you need it...?

<_<

 

Actually, the oil companies even require it for doing seismic work on land also.

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Personally, flying instruments is the most satisfying flying I've ever done. I enjoy it much more than any VFR flying. While there are helicopter jobs that don't require an instrument ticket, your chances of being employed increase significantly if you have one. You'll need an instrument ticket to fly EMS, it's a CAMTS requirement. Most jobs with larger companies require it. Having an instrument ticket make you a safer pilot, and increases the odds of survival (slim as they may be) in the event of inadvertent IMC.

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while it may not be a requirement for all jobs, yes, you need it. just wait until you get into imc, your gonna wish you had it. furthermore, an employer is going to prefer someone who will be cheaper to insure and be a safer pilot.

 

sure, you could argue that its unlikely to happen, but an engine failure is fairly unlikely as well. maybe we should just skip auto training and make it an add-on? that pesky autorotation cert is unnecessary anyway!

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I guess you could argue then, that every helicopter should be fully IFR equipped, since what's the point in having the rating, if your helicopter can't let you use it? :huh:

 

I guess I should start carrying a tie in my pocket, for those night flights in the R22...just in case? :o

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I guess you could argue then, that every helicopter should be fully IFR equipped, since what's the point in having the rating, if your helicopter can't let you use it? :huh:

 

I guess I should start carrying a tie in my pocket, for those night flights in the R22...just in case? :o

...a tie?

 

 

What would you doing as a competent PiC in weather that might lead to IIMC, without an aircraft that could handle IFR, and the training to know what to do if you did go IMC? I understand that you might get pressure from above, sometimes. Heck, I've briefed for and been prepared to go out under NVG in 700-2, where I need 500 AGL just to clear power lines on my route. But I was prepared to do it. I wouldn't even THINK of doing that if I didn't know how to fly instruments.

 

Ideally, I would think that every helicopter would also have fully coupled autopilot, three engines with single engine capability, multi-band transceivers (why don't we just call this "a kickass avionics package"), fuel capacity/burn rate to keep you aloft for 7 hours, and able to pick up an 8,000 pound useful load. Oh, and still has the footprint of an R22 to let you get in the tightest LZs. But they don't, and you can't always control what your aircraft does have. You CAN control what training you have, though. Yes, your aircraft might only have airspeed, altitude, and a wet compass, but combine that with training, a PAR with a good controller, and you might make it out of the clouds alive.

 

If you don't want the training, don't get it. But you can only hurt yourself NOT getting it, where you have nothing to lose by getting it, as far as I see.

 

My $.02, and nothing more. Please take nothing I say as an insult...unless I say otherwise. (I may just add that to my signature...)

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Having an instrument rating WILL make you a better VFR pilot - insurance companies and employers know that. Instrument training teaches you precise attitude control and instrument interpretation. I've done partial panel simulated instrument training where the panel was essentially reduced to a VFR panel - there's no way that would be possible without training. Remember too, that VFR is only half of the aviation "system". Without adequate training in both IFR and VFR, you'll only ever have half the picture. I find the thought of SVFR by pilots without an instrument rating quite alarming...

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