WestTexas Posted February 1, 2011 Posted February 1, 2011 What does it take for a company to become a tour operation? Say, the ones that you would see at a county fair or something similar giving helicopter rides. Quote
Trans Lift Posted February 1, 2011 Posted February 1, 2011 To operate under Part 91 for doing tour rides, you will have to get an LOA from your local FSDO. This allows you to conduct tours/rides but not Charter work (Part 135). Quote
WestTexas Posted February 1, 2011 Author Posted February 1, 2011 Thanks for the reply. What would change for charter? Quote
Gomer Pylot Posted February 1, 2011 Posted February 1, 2011 For charter work you need a Part 135 certificate. That can be difficult and expensive, but it doesn't have to be. If you have to ask, you will probably find it difficult and expensive, though. 1 Quote
WestTexas Posted February 2, 2011 Author Posted February 2, 2011 I don't have any license yet so thanks for putting down my question.... Quote
WestTexas Posted February 2, 2011 Author Posted February 2, 2011 Look at translift comment and then his.... One was a lot of help one was none. So what if I am a billionaire. What does it take to get a part 135 Quote
Trans Lift Posted February 2, 2011 Posted February 2, 2011 Basically you have to go through all sorts of paperwork with the FAA, create an ops manual, checkrides every year with the FAA. I have never gone through and I could be missing some stuff but you get the jist of it! Quote
The Guardian Posted February 2, 2011 Posted February 2, 2011 Here is a link to a pilot's blog. She blogs extensively about her flying and running her helicopter business. The blog is a wealth of information and I recommend you reading through a lot of it if you're just starting out. Part 135 Info:http://www.aneclecticmind.com/2010/04/29/getting-a-part-135-certificate/ Quote
Trans Lift Posted February 2, 2011 Posted February 2, 2011 I was just looking for that link. Nice one Guardian! Quote
The Guardian Posted February 2, 2011 Posted February 2, 2011 I was just looking for that link. Nice one Guardian! Now let me send you over to my "Mind Reading" blog. I heard when learning to hover all I needed to do was "think about" moving the cyclic and it would just happen, lol.... Quote
Pohi Posted February 2, 2011 Posted February 2, 2011 The FAA website goes step by step FSIMS, 8900.1, Volume 2, Chapter 4 http://fsims.faa.gov/PICDetail.aspx?docId=28FBB668C35307A78625779F006A96E8 That link should do it 1 Quote
WestTexas Posted February 2, 2011 Author Posted February 2, 2011 Thats what I'm talking about! Thanks for the help. Wasn't trying to come off rude earlier it just kinda irked me that I asked a question and get a "you can't afford it" answer. My bad. Quote
Pohi Posted February 2, 2011 Posted February 2, 2011 (edited) The first step in the process of getting a certificate is filling out and submitting the FAA Form 8400-6, Preapplication Statement of Intent (PASI). That puts a person on the waiting list, which can vary in length depending on how many people are trying in that area. And, the process at the moment does not cost anything besides the cost of flight time for the checkride, and the cost of getting the aircraft and facilities into compliance. Which can vary depending on the type and scope of the certificate and aircraft requested. Edited February 2, 2011 by Pohi 1 Quote
heligirl03 Posted February 2, 2011 Posted February 2, 2011 I think Gomer just meant that if you're asking it's because you don't know where to start, which means it's going make the process longer because you have to not only jump through the hoops but figure out what and where they are to begin with and there are a LOT of them. As for the expense, I don't think he meant the cost of the certificate itself but the expense of hiring someone to help you navigate the murky waters of getting there. He was using gentle aviation sarcasm...don't take it personally. Knowing the truth behind his response, it actually cracked me up a little Those two links the guys gave you should help a lot. It also helps to have a foot in the door of aviation (your commercial rating maybe) to begin with, saves you some additional steps in the learning process. Good luck! HG03 Quote
iChris Posted February 2, 2011 Posted February 2, 2011 (edited) Look at translift comment and then his.... One was a lot of help one was none. So what if I am a billionaire. What does it take to get a part 135 In that case, put your money to work. 1. Have someone set it up for a fee. There are companies and consultants that will setup your operation along with all the required manuals and documentation. Example: http://usac.com/faa/index.asp 2. For a price many existing 135 certificate holders will allow you to place your aircraft on their certificate, which can be done within the FAR. 3. Purchase an existing operation. There are 135 operations currently for sale. 4. If you just plan on tours, do the tours Part 91 like this guy (link below): http://www.justhelic...ic/Default.aspx Edited February 2, 2011 by iChris Quote
rick1128 Posted February 2, 2011 Posted February 2, 2011 In that case, put your money to work. 1. Have someone set it up for a fee. There are companies and consultants that will setup your operation along with all the required manuals and documentation. Example: http://usac.com/faa/index.asp 2. For a price many existing 135 certificate holders will allow you to place your aircraft on their certificate, which can be done within the FAR. 3. Purchase an existing operation. There are 135 operations currently for sale. 4. If you just plan on tours, do the tours Part 91 like this guy (link below): http://www.justhelic...ic/Default.aspx How long the process takes really depends on what level of 135 certificate you want. A basic or single pilot certificate have the shortest processes as GOMs are not required. You will need to spend some time with Order 8900.10 on the FAA's website before you start. At present keep in mind that a large majority of the FSDOs have a long waiting list of startup operators and you will go to the bottom of the list. As for buying a certificate, you can not purchase a 135 certificate. How it is done, is that you buy the company. But there are pitfalls you you are not careful. One is the FAA could pull the certificate upon change of ownership for various reasons. The FAA does not want to see any change in required personnel during the ownership change over or change of FSDO. Another thing to keep in mind is that you would be taking over any and all the baggage that the company has with the FAA. Having dealt with some of these consultants, it is my opinion they are nowhere near worth the money they charge. The vast majority of them are former FAA inspectors. And since they guarantee acceptance, they tend to be overly conservative in the set up of these manuals. Keep in mind that upon acceptance and/or approval of your documents, YOU have to live with them. It was my experience that you will not get a digital copy of the manuals, so you will have to deal with these people whenever you need to make any changes. As for boot strapping on someone else's certificate, since the new 'operational control' opspecs have come out, this option is becoming more difficult to do and when you can do it, there will be restrictions that could make it difficult to conduct your business. Quote
Tenacious T Posted February 2, 2011 Posted February 2, 2011 I just completed the process for getting a 91.147 Air Tour LOA and it wasn't that hard. You need an FAA approved drug and alcohol testing program then send them a letter requesting the LOA list the aircraft you want to use. They will eventually come out and check the aircraft and logbooks for 91 compliance and maybe ask you a few questions and that is it. At least that's how it went with my FSDO. Quote
iChris Posted February 2, 2011 Posted February 2, 2011 (edited) As for buying a certificate, you can not purchase a 135 certificate. How it is done, is that you buy the company. But there are pitfalls you you are not careful. One is the FAA could pull the certificate upon change of ownership for various reasons. The FAA does not want to see any change in required personnel during the ownership change over or change of FSDO. Another thing to keep in mind is that you would be taking over any and all the baggage that the company has with the FAA. Having dealt with some of these consultants, it is my opinion they are nowhere near worth the money they charge. The vast majority of them are former FAA inspectors. And since they guarantee acceptance, they tend to be overly conservative in the set up of these manuals. Keep in mind that upon acceptance and/or approval of your documents, YOU have to live with them. It was my experience that you will not get a digital copy of the manuals, so you will have to deal with these people whenever you need to make any changes. As for boot strapping on someone else's certificate, since the new 'operational control' opspecs have come out, this option is becoming more difficult to do and when you can do it, there will be restrictions that could make it difficult to conduct your business.Remember what he said, "So what if I am a billionaire. What does it take to get a part 135" These are small issues in that case. So what if it cost $10K more to get it done right. When you put hard cash to work, you get things done. If you're not market wise, you seek out someone with the reputation that is street wise in aviation. You're correct, you don't buy the certificate, you buy the whole operation. In fact some maybe looking for, a run-down 135 operation. You can pickup the opration for pennies-on-the-dollar and bring in your new aircraft and financing. The FAA is so happy with your fresh new operation, you ease right in. You've got money and the appearance of a reputable operation that's going to make their work that much easer. You can also move the operation if needed in the future. What you really wanted was the certificate. "Operational Control" is no problem nor restriction. All the FAA is looking for is a written agreement from the aircraft owner giving the 135 operation the right to exercise full authority over initiating, conducting or terminating a flight in adition to maintaining the aircraft under Part 135. An aviation lawyer can set that up and still allow you access (as a pilot on the certificate holders staff). Also, 135 OpSpec( A001) allows for doing-business-as (dba). That can be setup too. To the uninformed low end penny-pincher, these may be major hurdles. To the informed market wise and/or well financed person, it's the normal course of getting what you want done. Edited February 2, 2011 by iChris Quote
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