Spacing From Fixed Wing

[stevenwings]

The non F.A.A airfield where I work has a very busy fixed wing traffic pattern with frequently 3 or more fixed wing aircraft in the pattern at any one time. The airfield has a control tower which allows the helicopter instructors/pilots to determine there own spacing from the fixed wing. The helicopter pattern is 500 feet lower than the fixed wing pattern and primarily based around a heli pad between the main taxiway running parallel to the runway and the ramp area.

 

Due to the high volume of traffic the helicopters are turning base when sometimes there is a fixed wing on final. Occasionally the helicopters will circle for spacing if the helicopter pilot estimates that the fixed wing will be at the same altitude and position abeam the helicopter when turning final(inorder to avoid distracting the fixed pilots), otherwise will just turn base regardless of fixed wing traffic on final, which more commonly seems to be the case.

 

The control tower generally don't provide traffic advisories. From my limited experience in the states, when traffic was on final I recall always being advised by tower that traffic is no factor on final cleared to land, to circle for spacing or extend the downwind and wait to be instructed to turn base. I am basically wondering if you think the current helicopter/fixed wing spacing procedure on base/final at my airfield is acceptable and if not what changes I should push for at my airfield.

[Azhigher]

When I flew at a regional Delta airspace airport there were 2 parallel runways used for fixed wings and another parallel taxiway used for helicopter patterns. The helicopter pattern was inside the fixed wing pattern and the altitudes were separated by maybe 300 feet. We never really ran into any problems. There were plenty of times in which 2 aircraft would land side by side and as long as everyone stayed lined up with their runway/taxiway everything worked out.

[Goldy]

Plenty of airports do it this way. We turn base and final to the taxiway as a F/W is on final. The tower always tells the F/W what is up, and where we are headed to alleviate any jitters.

 

If you don't have a tower but operate on a CTAF instead, I suggest the helo pilots make the call turning final and be very specific "White R44 turning final to taxiway Alpha, I have the Cessna on final for Runway 26"

 

Notice I didnt give my call sign.....call signs mean nothing when you are looking for the right traffic.

 

There shouldnt be any issue. We operate into some very busy airspace with 500 ft separation in pattern and probably 300 feet horizontal on final.

 

Good communication is the key.

Edited February 4, 2011 by Goldy

[500E]

With you Goldy

When I trained we were using same sort of approach as your field, our call was"Helicopter on finals to grass on dead side" of designated runway, it was normally LH circuit so we looked for FW traffic on our left \port side, you could wave to those FW boys

[Rogue]

Depends on the rotor wash. If the wind is straight down the pipe no problem. If you are right pattern and the fixed wing is left pattern so that you end up being parallel to them and the wind is right quartering ( which is what we prefer due to possibility of LTE ) causing the rotor wash to possible blow into their traffic pattern then I would extend downwind enough to prevent that. Also depends on the aircraft, rotor wash of a 22 not quite as big of a deal as the wash from an L4 or when I go fixed wing flying at the Aero Club I need to steer clear of the Apache warships and MH53s ! Heck for that matter I was sharing the pattern in a Bell 47 the other day with an MI8. I was using parallel taxiway with a left hand pattern and he was using the runway with a right hand pattern. He got pretty close to me at one point in time and I sure as heck could notice. Also don't forget that 91.126 says that airplanes must make all turns to the left and says helos must avoid the flow of fixed wing. Rotor wash is the reason for this, there is no stipulation that you have to fly any kind of a pattern at all ( in fact most times I just make my approach to exactly where I'm going, taxiing is just another opportunity to create flying debris... these kind of decisions are what was taught to me as the difference between a driver and a professional..... ) so I would just be concerned more about where my rotor wash is being blown then how much actual separation there may be. Also don't forget you are PIC, you can also tell the tower "unable"

Edited February 4, 2011 by Rogue

[HeloJunkie]

Last week I was doing some training up at Torrance and we flew over to Long Beach to use the pads there. Multiple times during the hour or so we were there we were nose to nose with a fixed wing aircraft going the opposite direction at our altitude only a hundred feet or so off to our side. The tower never acted like it was anything but normal.

 

I think at a busy airport, everyone is expected to play nice and know where they are supposed to be at all times. We never got a call about fixed wing traffic near us the entire time we were there working.

[Goldy]

Last week I was doing some training up at Torrance and we flew over to Long Beach to use the pads there. Multiple times during the hour or so we were there we were nose to nose with a fixed wing aircraft going the opposite direction at our altitude only a hundred feet or so off to our side. The tower never acted like it was anything but normal.

 

I think at a busy airport, everyone is expected to play nice and know where they are supposed to be at all times. We never got a call about fixed wing traffic near us the entire time we were there working.

 

Usually when I am at TOA I ask for the left runway with left pattern since the right runway uses a right hand pattern. But when I flew the R66 down there, we were working the right runway/ right pattern along with a Piper. I got pretty close a couple times....maybe 500 feet, but the tower never said anything.

[500E]

Hi Goldy

We fly into a small airfield with ground radio only (not a controller) & always call blind, "Helicopter N***** on short finals to dead side of RW **" people get caught if the think you are FW can scare the FW pilot if you appear along side them even if it is a few hundred feet, it also allows the FW opps to use the tarmac at the same time

Had a heli take off with us on SF came up 1\200 ft in front of us, we used to call "Hughes 369 on finals", he said he thought a 369 was the 300 series so plenty of time to lift & go slight difference in speed of approach.