MY NEW ENSTROM PHOTO!

[Goldy]

Already have 5 flights in a very similar 480B (got a head start on transition). I can tell you now.

 

-The cockpit is unbelievably roomy.

-Turbine procedures and management are simple

-Power is incredible

-The "trim" instead of hydraulics is more difficult to fly than the R44 but I like the direct control "feel".

-I love the idea that I can do hammerheads, ag turns with negative g's and other maneuvers without worrying about mast-bumping.

-I love that it doesn't dance around near the ground.

-I don't like the mild wobble while on the ground at idle.

-I love the forgiving landing gear

-I love the rock-solid feel in the air. Way more substantial than than the R44.

-I love the simplicity

 

BUT MY FAVORITE HELI WOULD BE A CROSS BETWEEN THE 480B with some of the characteristics of the R44.

 

I would agree to all of those attributes. But on the other side, it is fairly slow when compared to a 44, correct? Do the lack of hydraulics wear you out flying a cross country? Not a lot of payload with full fuel....but full fuel keeps you in the air awhile...You forgot to add the very flexible seating arrangements!

 

Anything else?

[280fxColorado]

I would agree to all of those attributes. But on the other side, it is fairly slow when compared to a 44, correct? Do the lack of hydraulics wear you out flying a cross country? Not a lot of payload with full fuel....but full fuel keeps you in the air awhile...You forgot to add the very flexible seating arrangements!

 

Anything else?

 

No hydros but a very effective trim system to neutralize control forces in flight. You can cruise hands / feet free in smooth air in the 480 (or a 280).

 

Also a substantial baggage box and removable/movable seats for different cargo options, can even hold a litter for patient transport.

 

Very stable in a hover and forward flight at any speed. Photographers/videographers have told us they prefer the 280/480 over a 44/206 for the minimal in-flight vibrations.

 

Last and maybe not least, the 480B looks pretty damn sexy.

Edited March 14, 2011 by 280fxColorado

[MileHi480B]

No hydros but a very effective trim system to neutralize control forces in flight. You can cruise hands / feet free in smooth air in the 480 (or a 280). Also a substantial baggage box and removable/movable seats for different cargo options, can even hold a litter for patient transport. Very stable in a hover and forward flight at any speed. Photographers/videographers have told us they prefer the 280/480 over a 44/206 for the minimal in-flight vibrations.

 

Have not taken a long flight yet ... but I was able to remove my feet and trim the cyclic to nearly hands-free flying straight & level. Having owned an R44 and flying it for 200 hours I can tell you that they both cruise about the same in real-life flying -- 90 to 95 KIAS (+ or -).

 

However, you can push the R44 to go a bit faster than the 480B. But when you fly the R44 faster than 110 KIAS you "feel" it. When you push the 480B it stays very smooth.

 

As far as useful load goes ... its all about managing fuel vs people and luggage. It all boils down to useful load per seat. In other words ... if you take the MGTOW and subtract Empty Weight you come up with a gross number. Divide that by the number of seats and it tells a pretty accurate story when comparing apples with apples.

 

For example: The R44 has approximately 248 lbs per seat of useful load. The 480B has approximately 240 lbs per seat if used as a 5 place. When used as a 4-place the 480B has 300 lbs per seat.

 

Allot that useful load for people, fuel, luggage ... its up to you.

Edited April 10, 2011 by MileHi480B

[adam32]

What does the 480 burn per hour? 20gph?

[280fxColorado]

What does the 480 burn per hour? 20gph?

 

Yes. Roughly 20-22 depending on weight/speed/etc.

http://www.enstromhelicopter.com/products/images/480B_specsheet.gif

 

PS: forgot a few important benefits of the Enstrom 480.

 

* No 12 year mandatory overhaul. Very beneficial to a light-moderate use private owner.

* Extraordinary tail rotor authority. The unobstructed wide-chord tailrotor design virtually eliminates LTE. Pedal turns in 35kts+ wind without running out of pedal. From the POH--"Chap 1 s 1.11: ..."There is no wind azimuth, relative to the nose, that is critical to directional control of the aircraft." Sideways/rearward flight permitted at 35kts up to 8000ft.

* Extremely stout construction. Landing gear that will withstand impacts that would cripple a Robby. Solid spar tail rotor. No debonding on the main rotor blades. There are only 9 life limited parts on the 480b, everything else is on condition. (I believe the MR blades are listed at 72,000hrs or something ridiculous).

* High inertia rotor system with outstanding autorotation characteristics. The R44 does auto very well, but the 480 floats like a dream, even low, slow, and heavy.

 

http://www.m1heli.com/helicopter%20pictures/480bHV.jpg

Link to 480B HV diagram

 

http://www.m1heli.com/helicopter%20pictures/r44HV.jpg

Link to R44 II HV diagram for comparison.

 

 

A good side-by-side comparison from some of our friends in Mexico: Rototex R44/480B

Edited March 15, 2011 by 280fxColorado

[rick1128]

Yes. Roughly 20-22 depending on weight/speed/etc.

http://www.enstromhelicopter.com/products/images/480B_specsheet.gif

 

PS: forgot a few important benefits of the Enstrom 480.

 

* No 12 year mandatory overhaul. Very beneficial to a light-moderate use private owner.

* Extraordinary tail rotor authority. The unobstructed wide-chord tailrotor design virtually eliminates LTE. Pedal turns in 35kts+ wind without running out of pedal. From the POH--"Chap 1 s 1.11: ..."There is no wind azimuth, relative to the nose, that is critical to directional control of the aircraft." Sideways/rearward flight permitted at 35kts up to 8000ft.

* Extremely stout construction. Landing gear that will withstand impacts that would cripple a Robby. Solid spar tail rotor. No debonding on the main rotor blades. There are only 9 life limited parts on the 480b, everything else is on condition. (I believe the MR blades are listed at 72,000hrs or something ridiculous).

* High inertia rotor system with outstanding autorotation characteristics. The R44 does auto very well, but the 480 floats like a dream, even low, slow, and heavy.

 

For a private owner it is pretty hard to beat the Enstrom. The only mandatory inspection is the 100 hr/annual. Like you said few life limited parts. On the 28F and the 280FX the MR blades are 95000 hours, MR Shaft is 76000 hrs and the walking beam is 19,000 hours. Basically they are on condition. The highest time Enstroms I know of are the ones that were operated by the Long Beach PD, they were over 27,000 hours when they were retired.

 

The tail rotor is quieter than the Robinson or 300. I did a 15 hour cross country in a F28C a couple of years ago. It was quite comfortable. Proper trim see to that. It is a machine that you can trim up and take both hands off the controls and it stays where it was. If you think the R44 has a high inertia rotor system, it is nothing compared to the Enstrom.

 

The Enstrom's safety record is one of the best of the light piston helicopters. About half the percentage of fatalities compared with the 300 and R22. A large percentage of accident reports on Enstroms reads like 'occupants walked away', 'Occupants received minor injuries', 'Occupants were uninjured', etc.

[helikriewall]

Very nice ship. I've always been a robbie guy, probably cause that's all i've flown but after reading about the 480b, WOW looks like a really nice helicopter. Congrats on your new heli. Maybe I'll get to fly one soon

[BOATFIXERGUY]

Finally...you guys are starting to see what Clay, Rick, 280fxColorado, and I have been saying for YEARS! I guess it just takes some of you robbie guys to actually fly one and share your experiences for the rest to hear.

 

Enstrom makes the best helicopters that no one has ever heard of. I've said this many times before: If Enstrom had Frank Robinson's marketing plan, they would be everywhere.

 

Tom, enjoy your new ship! Jack will take good care of you!

 

john

[Goldy]

The highest time Enstroms I know of are the ones that were operated by the Long Beach PD, they were over 27,000 hours when they were retired.

 

All good info, although I think a better comparison is the R66 vs 480B....little more fair than trying to pitch an R44 against it! Like having a 120 pounder in a heavyweight fight!

 

I think Rick you are talking about Pasadena PD, not Long Beach.....if so, I live about 3 miles from Pasadena PD heliport so I've seen plenty of the old F28 Enstroms around.

 

However I have been told by some owners that the blades will delam after 5-7 yrs if kept near the ocean....just like many other blades, and there is maintenance(lube) required every 25 hours? Maybe someone can chime in on that...

 

Thanks all,

[TomPPL]

This is a good point:

although I think a better comparison is the R66 vs 480B..

So then, how do they compare? Does anyone have any thoughts?

[MileHi480B]

So then, how do they compare? Does anyone have any thoughts?

 

At this point the only comparison would be on paper. I don't believe there is anyone with any appreciable experience in both machines to make a practical, real-life comparison.

[rick1128]

All good info, although I think a better comparison is the R66 vs 480B....little more fair than trying to pitch an R44 against it! Like having a 120 pounder in a heavyweight fight!

 

I think Rick you are talking about Pasadena PD, not Long Beach.....if so, I live about 3 miles from Pasadena PD heliport so I've seen plenty of the old F28 Enstroms around.

 

However I have been told by some owners that the blades will delam after 5-7 yrs if kept near the ocean....just like many other blades, and there is maintenance(lube) required every 25 hours? Maybe someone can chime in on that...

 

Thanks all,

 

Goldy,

 

Several years ago I talked with a former LBPD pilot who told me that they had started with a couple of Enstroms.

 

As for comparing the F480 to the R66. Let us take a little look at their backgrounds. Both really started as turbinized and stretched models of an earlier model. In the case of the R66, it was the R44. For the F480 it was the 280FX. Each brings it own maintenance and design philosophies forward. At present there are not that many R66's out there. And with no maintenance history to go by, it would be difficult to compare the F480 to the R66.

 

In regards to the blades, like all metal blades they do require care and maintenance. For the Enstrom, you do need to keep the leading edge of the blades painted. Plus keep them clean and oiled. During the better times of the year, I would wash my blades, top and bottom, about every two weeks, spray paint the areas of the leading edge as needed and then wipe the blades down, top and bottom with an oily rag. Of course I live near the coast. As for lubing, personally I don't feel it is a big deal. Under Part 91 a pilot/owner may do this themselves. Which I did. I assisted my mechanic in most of the maintenance and during the inspections. He showed me how to properly lube the machine. Two grease guns for the two different greases. It never took me more than about 30 minutes to do it properly. While I was doing that, I was also checking the other associated components for indications.

[280fxColorado]

All good info, although I think a better comparison is the R66 vs 480B....little more fair than trying to pitch an R44 against it! Like having a 120 pounder in a heavyweight fight!

 

I think Rick you are talking about Pasadena PD, not Long Beach.....if so, I live about 3 miles from Pasadena PD heliport so I've seen plenty of the old F28 Enstroms around.

 

However I have been told by some owners that the blades will delam after 5-7 yrs if kept near the ocean....just like many other blades, and there is maintenance(lube) required every 25 hours? Maybe someone can chime in on that...

 

Thanks all,

 

I don't know about delamination, as you say (certainly not catastropic a la Robinson) but paint will wear off with time. Keep clean, repaint on condition, and leading edge blade tape is helpful in harsh salty/sandy air but will rob you of about 1/2 - 1" MP.

 

Moving parts like grease to be happy. Greasing "every 25 hours" would be great but is probably overkill. Keep a couple grease guns handy and give a few zerks a squeeze occasionally. Also MR dampeners like to be bled occasionally and the need can be felt with roughness in the disc--simple procedure with 2 syringes to bleed out air bubbles. I recently took a 50hr XC in a 1988 280fx without any maintenance en route and zero issues. Like any machine, there's a lot of simple preventative maintenance that a competent/attentive PIC/owner can complete to ensure longevity and smooth operations. Operating an Enstrom feels a lot like driving a tractor or an old Bronco, it's built for use and abuse... you feel like you're strapped into something substantial and durable. Not like you have to tiptoe around it and worry about breaking something.

 

As for downsides, the Enstrom "ground shuffle" was already mentioned and can be disconcerting and offputting to the uninitiated. The explanation I've heard is that the MR dampeners don't self-center well at low RPM so you can get some mild resonance while sitting on the skids (note: there has never been a case of destructive ground resonance in an Enstrom). I've found that some forward/left cyclic helps to neutralize this in the 280 or stir the pot a little bit to find the happy point. Mechanics and pilots complain about poor internal visibility and access for inspection and repairs. This is more of an issue on the 280--the engine compartment on the 480 is cavernous. Also the blades are a bit of a dog to get in trim (half art, half science, with a dash of luck), but once you peg it, the disc is silky smooth. I've also heard complaints about the position of the exhaust on the 480 but I forget the issues... anyone?

Edited March 16, 2011 by 280fxColorado

[rick1128]

As for downsides, the Enstrom "ground shuffle" was already mentioned and can be disconcerting and offputting to the uninitiated. The explanation I've heard is that the MR dampeners don't self-center well at low RPM so you can get some mild resonance while sitting on the skids (note: there has never been a case of destructive ground resonance in an Enstrom). I've found that some forward/left cyclic helps to neutralize this in the 280 or stir the pot a little bit to find the happy point. Mechanics and pilots complain about poor internal visibility and access for inspection and repairs. This is more of an issue on the 280--the engine compartment on the 480 is cavernous. Also the blades are a bit of a dog to get in trim (half art, half science, with a dash of luck), but once you peg it, the disc is silky smooth. I've also heard complaints about the position of the exhaust on the 480 but I forget the issues... anyone?

 

The big issue with the 480 is the position of the exhaust. It comes out the bottom of the engine compartment. So if land or takeoff in fields or other uncleared areas, there is a possibility of starting a fire. Considering where the helicopter was designed, it is a strange place for it to be exhausted.

 

As for the shuffle, I found a technique that helps a little. The original Hughes 269 had hydraulic dampers which would do the same thing except much worst. On the pre-flight when the pilot checks the lead/lag hinge, the pilot will push each blade in the same direction on the last wiggle. That gets each blade in more or less the same position. I found it works reasonably well for me.

[280fxColorado]

The big issue with the 480 is the position of the exhaust. It comes out the bottom of the engine compartment. So if land or takeoff in fields or other uncleared areas, there is a possibility of starting a fire. Considering where the helicopter was designed, it is a strange place for it to be exhausted.

 

There's something else peculiar to the 480 exhaust design I've heard ragged on. It makes two 90 degree turns (down and then back and out the butt). But I forget the downsides...

[Goldy]

There's something else peculiar to the 480 exhaust design I've heard ragged on. It makes two 90 degree turns (down and then back and out the butt). But I forget the downsides...

 

Maybe just a loss of power due to the added resistance getting the exhaust out? Probably only cost you 5hp.

[MileHi480B]

Well ... I'm getting closer to flying. The 480B arrived in Colorado on March 15th in a container. It is at the factory service center here where it has undergone an extensive airworthiness/annual inspection for the conversion to FAA Registration. There were a host of mostly minor squawks.

 

It is now being reassembled and the panel is being upgraded.

 

Maybe I'll be airborne in a week or two?

[clay]

I wanna fly it

[Goldy]

Well ... I'm getting closer to flying. The 480B arrived in Colorado on March 15th in a container. It is at the factory service center here where it has undergone an extensive airworthiness/annual inspection for the conversion to FAA Registration. There were a host of mostly minor squawks.

 

It is now being reassembled and the panel is being upgraded.

 

Maybe I'll be airborne in a week or two?

 

Looks great! Can't wait to hear all about it.

 

Skids on both sides of the ship are so overrated, after all....we all practice slope landings, right?

[SBuzzkill]

That sure is an attractive ship!

[gary-mike]

Oh my god they pulled it's left leg off! Is this part of a sick interrogation scheme?

 

CONGRATS! and happy and safe flight for the both of you and any passengers that may be lucky enough to ride along.

Edited April 22, 2011 by gary-mike

[MileHi480B]

Getting closer! Here are the latest photos ... Heli is on her skids, awaiting parts from Enstrom for the rotorhead. The instrument panel being modified for "glass" and the iddy-biddy turbine (side shot & underneath shot). Hard to believe that sucker can lift and propel 5 people at decent speeds!

[MileHi480B]

GETTING CLOSER!

 

Here is the completed panel. Now onto the rotorhead. Unfortunately, three grips had to be sent back to Enstrom for re-work ... one was beyond limits. Had to buy one! Ouch.

 

But when it is done ... it will be smokin.

 

BTW ... Vector Air in Erie, Colorado rocks! A service center for Enstrom, Cessna and Cirrus.

Edited April 21, 2011 by MileHi480B