Here's another one for ya.

[r22butters]

For those of you who have nothing better to do at 11:30 at night.

[lelebebbel]

At what weight? Raven or Raven II? Beta or Beta II? 300CBi, CB or C?

 

 

If its at more than 2,400# all up weight, I'd say R44-II..

Edited April 28, 2011 by lelebebbel

[Goldy]

At what weight? Raven or Raven II? Beta or Beta II? 300CBi, CB or C?

 

 

If its at more than 2,400# all up weight, I'd say R44-II..

 

Thats easy, the R22 wins hands down. But do you know why the R22 beats the R44 in max operating altitude (hint: it has nothing to do with capability, in fact one of its best features limit its rated max altitude)

 

Geez, I am bored ! Back to work.

[heli.pilot]

Because the r44 autos so well and would take too long to get down in the event of an engine failure?

[Goldy]

Because the r44 autos so well and would take too long to get down in the event of an engine failure?

 

Oh so close, but no, the buzzer.

 

What would be the problem if it took 20 minutes to get down with an engine failure? Just more time to find an 18 hole....I mean 18 helipad golf course.

Edited April 29, 2011 by Goldy

[r22butters]

Thats easy, the R22 wins hands down. But do you know why the R22 beats the R44 in max operating altitude (hint: it has nothing to do with capability, in fact one of its best features limit its rated max altitude)

 

Pretty much what I was thinking, however;

 

The R44 can hover at a PA of 14,000’(although its on a -30º day, and the R22 chart only goes to -20º?).

 

I guess if you go by the charts, and you took an R44 up to the mountains, where it could reach 14,000’ PA before 9000’AGL (its limit due to fire), then the R44 could win?

 

Now, if anyone has info on the “C” model S300, that lets it hover higher, feel free to share (my manual only covers the “CB”).

[Goldy]

Pretty much what I was thinking, however;

 

The R44 can hover at a PA of 14,000’(although its on a -30º day, and the R22 chart only goes to -20º?).

 

I guess if you go by the charts, and you took an R44 up to the mountains, where it could reach 14,000’ PA before 9000’AGL (its limit due to fire), then the R44 could win?

 

Now, if anyone has info on the “C” model S300, that lets it hover higher, feel free to share (my manual only covers the “CB”).

 

The fire limitations is where I was heading with my comments. The CBi OGE hover is 4800 !! The 300C at 1700 lbs is 8600.

[apiaguy]

Which can hover higher OGE?

If you do an analysis of the OGE hover charts of the R44II and the 300C it is quite interesting. Pick a line (lets say ISA/STP) and you will see some interesting similarities.

 

(data from mfg's)

R44 empty weight: 1500lbs

300C empty weight: 1100lbs

 

If you go to the earliest point on the chart for the R44 at STP that is 12000 feet at a weight of 1950 lbs approx.

1950 minus 1500... carrying 450 lbs..

 

On the 300C at ISA 12000 feet at a weight of 1500

1500 minus 1100... carrying 400 lbs..

 

R44II is the winner by a mere 50 lbs... or about 1000 feet if the 300 carried 450 lbs...

 

600 lbs in the 300 is the "mission weight" and that is the 8600 feet the mfg. quotes.

600 lbs in the R44 is 2100 lbs and you're about 10000 feet... so losing some ground as the weight increases in the 300C.

 

The 300C was originally certified with a gross weight of 1900 lbs... about 5500 foot hover OGE @800 lbs carried.

The R44II would be at 2300 lbs gross carrying 800 lbs and 7500 feet.

So as the weight increases the 300 is less efficient which would be correct for a 3 bladed rotor.

 

The 300C had a gross weight increase to 2050 and that's where things get ugly.. about 2800 feet OGE

The R44 is starting to drop off as well but still shining.

 

The 300C can be operated restricted category for external loads or for ag spraying at 2150!! Yes, at STP the hover ceiling is about 1500 feet but it is approved at that weight. That is 1050 useful with a 360 cubic inch engine.

The R44 is 2500 lbs or 1000 useful no exceptions.

[Pohi]

I might be mistaken, I don't have a poh in front of me, but I thought the auto with a fire was a limitation on an AGL height and not an oge hover thing.

 

Like if the surface was at 8000 then you would hit your max operating limit of 14000 way before the fire thing was a factor (which I thought was 9000 AGL)

 

Is this not right?

[r22butters]

Yes, in the mountains, the R44 could hover OGE at 14,000' on a -30 degree day. The R22 chart only shows about 13,500' on a -20 degree day

 

 

 

 

Well, there it is again? It seems like every time I post, I get a red mark. I guess someone here really doesn't like me!

Edited July 20, 2011 by r22butters

[naflight]

The R22 does not have AGL (fire) limitations due to certification standards at the time. Not sure if that's what you were looking for.

[Rick McWilliams]

How high have you flown one of these helicopters? I have flown a R22B2 to 8700 ft msl. Cyclic control becomes much less sensitive. Everything is quieter.

[r22butters]

How high have you flown one of these helicopters? I have flown a R22B2 to 8700 ft msl. Cyclic control becomes much less sensitive. Everything is quieter.

 

R22 BII, 5500' AGL (sea level)

 

R44 RII, just over 5000' DA (I don't recall the MSL, but it was in the mountains)

 

I don't think I could get an R22 light enough to get all the way up to its max OGE hover?

[Pohi]

R22 6-7k ish

R44 hit the ceiling

[IFLY]

R-22 7500 MSL flying south from Safford going back to Tucson skirting the 10,200 peak.

 

Jerry