Joe85sti Posted June 17, 2011 Report Share Posted June 17, 2011 (edited) Ok so me and another CFI are having a debate as to when a student pilot can log night time for private training and also log night landings. I think it follows the same regs as night currency requirements (61.57). He thinks it is anytime after evening civil twilight. FAR/AIM references appreciated. Thanks for the help Edited June 17, 2011 by Joe85sti Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick1128 Posted June 17, 2011 Report Share Posted June 17, 2011 Ok so me and another CFI are having a debate as to when a student pilot can log night time for private training and also log night landings. I think it follows the same regs as night currency requirements (61.57). He thinks it is anytime after evening civil twilight. FAR/AIM references appreciated. Thanks for the help Actually you are both right. See FAR 1.1. Night begins at the end of evening civil twilight and ends at the begin of morning civil twilight, which is fairly close to an hour after to an hour before. Night means the time between the end of evening civil twilight and the beginning of morning civil twilight, as published in the American Air Almanac, converted to local time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gomer Pylot Posted June 17, 2011 Report Share Posted June 17, 2011 Logging night time and landings, and logging them for currency, are different things. To be night current, you plainly must log the time between 1 hour after sunset and 1 hour before sunrise. That's not exactly between the end and beginning of civil twilight, although it's very close. It's technically possible to log night landings that can't be counted for currency. In the real world, though, nobody is going to hold an atomic clock on your landings. A couple or three minutes either side don't matter a hill of beans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbo2181 Posted June 17, 2011 Report Share Posted June 17, 2011 Well Gomer was closest. His interpretation of the FARs is nuts on but civil twilight is actually closer to .5 hours after sunset not a full hour. As Gomer said though the FAA isn't going to hunt you down for logging night landings as currency during that half hour difference. Hell they certified our EC135 that according to the checklist is impossible to start with the position lights on which is a breech of their own rules. Just try the best you can to follow them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gomer Pylot Posted June 17, 2011 Report Share Posted June 17, 2011 Nautical twilight is close to 1 hour before/after sunrise/sunset, while civil twilight is ~30 minutes before/after. So you can log landings and time for about half an hour before you can count them for currency. It's perfectly legal to log the time and landings as night, but to be current you must log 3 landings between an hour after sunset and before an hour before sunrise. Personally, I usually log night coinciding with an hour before/after, just to be on the safe side. I know I'm not logging all the night time I legally can, but I quit worrying about that years ago. Then there's astronomical twilight, which is ~45 minutes after/before, and has no bearing on any regulations that I'm aware of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C of G Posted June 17, 2011 Report Share Posted June 17, 2011 Hell they certified our EC135 that according to the checklist is impossible to start with the position lights on which is a breech of their own rules. Just try the best you can to follow them. Can you elaborate on that? What do you mean "they certified" and "impossible to start with the position lights on"? Sorry for the thread hijack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbo2181 Posted June 18, 2011 Report Share Posted June 18, 2011 Can you elaborate on that? What do you mean "they certified" and "impossible to start with the position lights on"? Sorry for the thread hijack. It actually depends on which EC135 you fly. One of them has the position lights on the shed bus. If you follow the "Approved" (sorry not certified) checklist you will start the aircraft without the position lights on as the shed bus is not engaged for the start. This is not true if starting with an EPU. The second aircraft actually has the position lights on the high load bus. Amazing I know. But this means the only way you can start the aircraft with the position lights on is with the EPU connected. But if it is a battery start you will not have position lights until the second engine is online. I believe that was a Metro STC and in that case the STC was "Certified" to allow that to happen. It had a bunch of other problems with its IFR set up that I can't specifically remember. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C of G Posted June 18, 2011 Report Share Posted June 18, 2011 Thanks... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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