Flying through contiguous class D airspace

[kodoz]

I have the opportunity to fly over 3 class D airports tomorrow, and their airspace is contiguous. Once I'm on with the first D, what's the convention for contacting the second and third? Does the controller hand you off with the same squawk, or do they usually leave it up to the pilot to make a determination of when to request a frequency change?

[r22butters]

I fly through "touching" airspaces all the time. You would think that the controller would just hand you off, but there have been numerous times when, looking at my GPS (this is one of the main reasons I wanted one), I notice that boarder getting closer and closer, and closer...and still nothing from the tower (even when they're not busy, and all I hear is silence)!

 

Normally I think its part of their job, but sometimes they can get really busy (or perhaps they just forget about you?), so be prepared to call (even during IFR training I had to ask them for a frequency change, every so often).

[Tenacious T]

If they take the time to give you a squawk they will probably hand you off, if you are squawking 1200 I wouldn't count on it if they are busy. I usually just make sure I have the next freq in backup and just switch on my own or let them know I am switching. If they give you a squawk then they have radar and know where you are anyway. Class D airports with no radar can be a little more touchy. 3 contiguous Class D's probably share a radar. If you want less hassle just call approach and get flight following, you'll have 1 squawk and 1 freq the whole time.

[kodoz]

If you want less hassle just call approach and get flight following, you'll have 1 squawk and 1 freq the whole time.

 

Yes! That's what I needed. This is just one of those things that make you scratch your head if you haven't done it before. Thanks for the replies.

[Carpenter]

I have the opportunity to fly over 3 class D airports tomorrow, and their airspace is contiguous. Once I'm on with the first D, what's the convention for contacting the second and third? Does the controller hand you off with the same squawk, or do they usually leave it up to the pilot to make a determination of when to request a frequency change?

 

Are you flying through the delta airspaces or over the top? My preference is to either fly over the top of contiguous Class D airspace (in your area, assuming you can remain under the Seattle Bravo shelf areas) or be on flight following with center and let them contact the towers.

[heligirl03]

Chris, are you going SEA-BFI-RNT area? I can give you a play by play from any direction to any direction if the other guys haven't chimed in yet. Just drop me an email with your plans, I can tell you pretty much exactly what each tower will want to hear or what will make it simplest for ya

[apiaguy]

I say just contact the first as usual... as you approach the 2nd contact them... and so on...

Do what you have to do... You don't have to "request freq. change".

Heligirl... can you give a clue as to what each tower wants? I've flown into hundreds of airports and they all seem to want the same thing... 1) who you are 2) where you are 3) what are your intentions

 

I rarely see class D airports using a transponder code...If they do, then they will usually pass you on, but again it will be your responsibility to verbally contact the next tower and you'd keep your xpdr code. If they have given you the "radar contact" they have some obligations (see AIM) Time or workload will dictate if they pass you before you reach the boundary... so I'd be ready to contact if they don't tell you to.

Edited July 5, 2011 by apiaguy

[helonorth]

As said, you can do three different things: you can get flight following and hope they communicate with everyone. You can contact and enter each one, asking for a frequency change when able (I would really want to have two radios), or you can go over the top. If I didn't have two radios, I would definitely go over the top. Hell, even if I did have two radios, I would probably go over the top. If the controllers were any good or not real busy they would note your direction of flight and hand you off as soon as they could.

[apiaguy]

I agree with helonorth and when I was younger (or in a hurry to my destination) I'd go over the top. If you want a good training exercise go thru...You want to teach your student to not be afraid of going thru those airspaces. There is no big deal that anyone should be afraid of by choosing to go thru.

[kodoz]

Over the top isn't an option for this flight: I'll be doing some aerial photo inside the D airspace, and it's such a short flight that climbing over the first doesn't seem practical. Primary thing I want to avoid is messing it up and having to make a bunch of phone calls....

[rodrop]

My rookie thought would be flight following.

[r22butters]

... You don't have to "request freq. change"...

 

 

Where did you read that? If its true, it would make things a lot easier!

[Goldy]

Don't overthink this, these are Deltas, not Bravos. I rarely get a squawk code in L.A., unless you request VFR flight following.

[ChprPlt]

Just get early freq changes. Its not bad once you get used to it.

[Nolapilot89]

I fly through contiguous airspaces daily, and usually just advise them that I'd like to head over to another frequency somewhat close to the end of their airspace if they haven't already told me to do so. They're used to aircraft transitioning through their airspace to another, so its really not an issue.

[JDHelicopterPilot]

A few points to make here.

 

Class Delta. The controler, even when they give you a Squawk Code, is NOT required to give you Radar Services. Many Deltas don't have access to a Radar anyway. Don't expect them to "hand" you off to the next controler. That is not their job. It is your job. Just say "N1234 freq change" and they'll tell you to change then change to the next Airspace. This applies to any airspace that doesn't have a break inbetween them.

 

Flight Following:

 

Even if you get VFR Flight Following with Approach/Center you may have to use multiple radio freqs and sometimes Squawk Codes. An example: I recently did Flight Following from KTUS-KNYL. First I spoke with Departure and got a Code. They then gave me a new Code that Center wanted me to be on. I was then handed over to Center. Then handed back to Approach then back to Center then again to Approach and finally the Tower at KNYL. For flight following, it all depends on your route, altitude. Each ATC sector is in charge of a defined area, thus you might bounce around a little bit like I did on that flight.

 

Even when under flight following you as PIC are expected to know about airspace ahead and if Bravo be "CLEARED" in Bravo. If part of your flight while under flight following enters Class D, C surface areas they may ask you to contact the Tower and Squawk VFR then request Flight Following again after you exit. Other times they won't. It all depends on your route and traffic in the area.

 

As for your specific area and Delta Airspace in question, Emily can help you out with that. You can always aska local pilot what to expect from ATC. Even then be ready for the unexpected. It really is not that hard to deal with ATC. The important thing is to listen and do what they say. If in doubt of when to change freq, just ask and they'll let you know.

[heligirl03]

The area I mentioned earlier can get tricky due to it's location under and adjacent to the Seattle Bravo and its local customs owing to a high number of commercial helicopters and Boeing jets using the adjacent Deltas as well. Fun place to fly if you know it, most people just avoid it altogether if they arent familiar-easy place to get in trouble fast!

 

It turns out he's headed a bit south though, to an area with two adjacent military Deltas and one civvie Delta. Also a bit stressful if you aren't familiar with the layout or what to expect, and as always, far easier if you just ask someone who's flown there regularly . The particular Delta he needs to take pictures in will most likely assign him a squawk. I can't remember the last time they didn't do that and I transitioned it daily for years. It's an AFB and while totally friendly and fun to fly over and see what's parked on the ramps, they want to keep track of you. Ever been chased by a C-130 on final? I've surprised more than one student with, hey, take off the hood for a sec and check this out! Typically it's quiet but there are of course the ridiculous days when they are super busy inside AND all of the surrounding special use airspaces are hot. Interestingly, I've never been assigned a squawk to transition the adjacent Army base VFR, although shooting a PAR is a nice break from the norm and listening to the chinook guys in the pattern trying to spot the R22 on final for the ILS is always a little amusing!

 

Good luck, Chris, hope my quick email rundown gave ya a little heads up, but those towers are usually happy to have someone to talk to and I'm sure it'll be a cakewalk, just tell 'em what you need. At least it looks like the one thing that always hangs you up in the NW is going to cooperate...the weather!!

 

HG03

[Gomer Pylot]

You don't need a clearance to enter Class D, just two-way radio communications, basically the tower acknowledging your callsign. You also don't need a clearance to leave it. There is no requirement for permission to frequency change, you can just leave the Class D, and the tower has no authority outside its airspace. If you plan on flying through a string of Class D areas, you have two choices. Call approach, and let them take care of it, or call the first tower, and when you get near the boundary of the next, just call the next tower and continue, no need to talk to the previous one any longer. I would recommend having the next tower frequency in standby, and flip-flop when necessary, or if you have two radios, use the second to talk to the next tower. Personally, I prefer calling approach, and getting radar service and clearances through the airspace. You have to be prepared for surprises, though, since approach might send you to the tower. It depends a lot on the local area, and the letters of agreement between the towers and approach control. As a pilot, you have no idea what the letters of agreement say, unless you fly the area regularly and figure it out from experience.

[C of G]

Although the transition of this airspace configuration may be new to you, it's not to them. Just tell them what you're planning and ask what their procedure is. They do it all day long.

[Tenacious T]

If you are maneuvering inside the D approach instead of just passing through approach will probably hand you off to tower anyway. For a photo flight just let them know what you are doing and where, altitude etc. If it doesn't interfere with their center line or pattern they probably won't stress about it. I wouldn't over think it, like others said previously-if you are staying in contact with them you are fulfilling your responsibility.

[kodoz]

I did the flight yesterday, and as you all predicted, it was no big deal. I ended up getting on with Seattle Approach and telling them what I'd be doing. They approved my transition through the first D, then handed me off to the tower in the second D. When I was all done, I asked tower for a frequency change to the second D, and headed back to base. I'll put the whole deal on my blog if anybody wants to see how it played out in more detail.

[d10]

When in doubt (or unfamiliar airspace) think about your basic requirements first. I've never seen a local procedure that made those wrong to follow. To enter and operate within Class D airspace you need communication with ATC. If there's uncontrolled airspace between two class D's, you can exit the first class D, freq change without ever telling tower you left, and contact the second class D prior to entering. If the two class D's border each other or there's such a small amount of uncontrolled area between them to make the above impractical, you need to request a freq change with the first tower so that you can establish communication with the second tower while you're still operating in the first's airspace. What you NEVER want to do is leave the first tower's frequency without telling him while you're still in his airspace.

 

I got into an ugly situation doing this once. I was flying as PIC, had an inexperienced SIC navigating and talking on radios. We were approaching two adjacent class D airports and I told him we're going to fly through so do whatever he needed to do to make it happen. He established contact with the first no problem. About halfway through the first airspace I hear him calling the second. I look down to see he had changed freqs without telling the first tower (or me for that matter). I start to explain to him why that's a bad idea when we both learn the hard way why it's a bad idea, a Cessna was converging on us on a climb after taking off and he dives to avoid us. The first tower had been trying to contact us to let us know of the traffic. Bottom line is talk to tower before you enter class D, if you need to talk to someone else while you're still in his airspace let him know, otherwise stay on his frequency until he tells you you can leave or you're clear of his airspace.

[MileHi480B]

Or, of course, you can always use a second com radio to establish contact with the adjoining airspace, while monitoring the curremt ATC. Edited July 14, 2011 by MileHi480B

[Gomer Pylot]

Yes, if you have an aircraft requiring two pilots, you almost certainly have two radios, at least. But it's often interesting to see what a new SIC will do. You have to watch very carefully until you're confident (s)he has at least a clue. I've seen too many that didn't even have a single one.

[iChris]

I say just contact the first as usual... as you approach the 2nd contact them... and so on...

Do what you have to do... You don't have to "request freq. change".

 

 

 

Where did you read that? If its true, it would make things a lot easier!

 

Found in the AIM chapter 4 section 3:

 

(AIM) 4-3-2. Airports with an Operating Control Tower

 

a. When operating at an airport where traffic control is being exercised by a control tower, pilots are required to maintain two-way radio contact with the tower while operating within the Class B, Class C, and Class D surface area unless the tower authorizes otherwise. Initial callup should be made about 15 miles from the airport. Unless there is a good reason to leave the tower frequency before exiting the Class B, Class C, and Class D surface areas, it is a good operating practice to remain on the tower frequency for the purpose of receiving traffic information. In the interest of reducing tower frequency congestion, pilots are reminded that it is not necessary to request permission to leave the tower frequency once outside of Class B, Class C, and Class D surface areas.

Edited July 16, 2011 by iChris