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I have been thinking about getting a flight suit, which raises a question; How come I never see anyone wearing a black one? Is there some kind of "unwritten rule" that says they have to be either beige or green? :huh:

 

And what do you guys wear under them,...are you fully clothed, or is it just "tighty-whitties" and socks? :D

 

Oh,...and do the NomexIIIA ones shrink in the wash? :o

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Black would attract a lot more sun heat than say tan or green. Other than that I don't know. Wear whatever you want underneath them. Probably would be best to throw on a shirt and at least a pair of shorts just in case. If you had to stay over night unexpectedly, you at least have something other than a flight suit to run around in.

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I have been thinking about getting a flight suit, which raises a question; How come I never see anyone wearing a black one? Is there some kind of "unwritten rule" that says they have to be either beige or green? :huh:

 

And what do you guys wear under them,...are you fully clothed, or is it just "tighty-whitties" and socks? :D

 

Oh,...and do the NomexIIIA ones shrink in the wash? :o

 

 

usually just gym shorts and a t-shirt. its really nice to be able to take it off. mine didnt shrink, but the nomex does wash out after a while.

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Won't shrink. Most suits are green or tan as those are the colors the military uses. EMS companies use a lot of different colors. Some blue, red, yellow even some are black. However, black is going to be hotter.

 

I don't think there is much reason to get a flight suit unless may be if you fly EMS (required) or maybe utility work. I would much perfer a nice white pilot shirt and pants.

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...mine didnt shrink, but the nomex does wash out after a while.

 

Are you sure about that? Everything I've read says that it doesn't wash out.

:huh:

 

I don't think there is much reason to get a flight suit unless may be if you fly EMS (required) or maybe utility work. I would much perfer a nice white pilot shirt and pants

 

I prefer the "airline pilot" look too (sans tie), but ever since Robinson put out that 'safety notice' on 'post-crash fires', it seems like every Tom, Dick, and Joe, flight instructor is now wearing a flight suit.

:mellow:

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Are you sure about that? Everything I've read says that it doesn't wash out.

:huh:

 

 

 

I prefer the "airline pilot" look too (sans tie), but ever since Robinson put out that 'safety notice' on 'post-crash fires', it seems like every Tom, Dick, and Joe, flight instructor is now wearing a flight suit.

:mellow:

 

I don't know about nomex "washing out", but they seem to wear badly after extensive washing.

 

I also don't know about flight instructors wanting to wear them. Some schools have policies either for or against flight suits. The general consensus from most instructors I know is they don't like it. Especially in some of the hotter places, you might be wishing for a fire to end it instead of having to stew while the helicopter cools down.

 

Nomex is great for keeping you from burning (for a couple seconds), but it isn't known for breathing well....

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View Postrotorwashed, on 05 July 2011 - 21:49, said:

...mine didnt shrink, but the nomex does wash out after a while.

 

Are you sure about that? Everything I've read says that it doesn't wash out.

:huh:

 

 

 

I prefer the "airline pilot" look too (sans tie), but ever since Robinson put out that 'safety notice' on 'post-crash fires', it seems like every Tom, Dick, and Joe, flight instructor is now wearing a flight suit.

:mellow:

 

As to "washing out", some colors do so more than others, especially sun bleaching.

Was I making the choice, I'd pick a 2-piece over a coverall any day.

Hiking shorts and cotton tee underneath, in case I get a chance to get out of "the bag" during the day. I also have a pair of clip-on suspenders if I have to be outside in the heat of the day.

Edited by Wally
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Nomex is hot in the summer and cold in the winter. Colors fade and change a lot from the sun. Flight suits suck, and the only reason for them is that they look 'cool'. I absolutely detest them. EMS programs require them because they make great advertising billboards, and the med crews love looking good. Looks count for more than practicality for many people. The number of survivable accidents that result in fires that Nomex can protect against is negligible, in civilian flying. If people who don't like me are firing explosive tracer projectiles at me, and I have lots of the same onboard, it makes sense to wear Nomex. That hasn't been the case for me in a lot of years, and I don't expect it soon. I would never voluntarily wear a flight suit, but if the job requires it, you don't have a lot of choice.

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Flightsuit color should probably best be determined by matching it to your pumps or your fingernail polish. (possibly your lipstick,....but who can see that behind the mic....seriously).

 

If you are in the sandbox, wearing a full combat load, no showers, etc; then I can understand hearing a complaint about your uniform being a tad warm.

 

Heat is a physiological stress that contributes to fatigue. Fatigue compromises your thinking at some point. When that happens you are more likely to make a mistake which could lead to an accident. That can happen pretty early in a duty day.

My opinion is that in most environments and civilian situations, Nomex flight suits are all posture and image that have an adverse effect on safety. The "bag" is the uniform and part of the job, just like the helmet and just like the spit shine on my boots.

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Dont stick the nomex flight suites in the dryer- Air dry them, they'll last longer. You'll wear the nomex material down faster with the dryer. I wear a cotton shirt underneath and tried the shorts a few years ago but got tired of the bathroom preflght of getting the shorts out of the way. And everyones complaining about the nomex being hot- I've been flying in the desert 45C, its just psychological. I'd still wear my flight suite, gloves, & emergency vest. I feel naked without my equipment and rather not fly with exposed skin like a t-shirt and shorts anymore.

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Temperature is an environmental factor in the equation, true. How much "stress" that becomes is due in part to an individuals conditioning (or lack of it). Being a pilot is stressful in and of itself, so it seems a bit odd to listen to complaints of stress from pilots unless they arrived in the job by accident, having actually signed up for a yoga clinic or something, but got stuck flying helos purely by mistake.

(which is what happened to me, I swear).

 

Do your homework, wear the gear appropriate for the mission, train your body to deal with the environment at hand. Most of all, dont whine in front of the crew or passengers, it just makes you look weak, inept, and still doesnt help the situation.

 

Very true. Im in Iraq right now. On any given day I have on 60 lbs of gear and the temp is in the range of 115-130. If your in shape you can push through any temp the states have to throw at you...No matter what you have on.

 

And 2nd...Where is that yoga list you signed up on?!? I would love to put my name on there also

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Temperature is an environmental factor in the equation, true. How much "stress" that becomes is due in part to an individuals conditioning (or lack of it).

 

Conditioning will only get you so far if you are flying around 8 hrs a day in 105 degree heat index with high humidity. It will take its toll and reduce your effectiveness unless you are superman.

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You will not wash out Nomex.

Am with TT. heat & humidity will reduce your effectiveness, don't care how fit you are, especially if your liquid intake is low at the same time, dehydration is a killer, acclimatization will help, the fitter you are will help but hot & humid will get to you

Still r22 only asked about a flight suit :lol:

A light cotton suit will make you look cool B)

Even 3 layers of Nomex only gives you seconds of safety, + gloves, socks, balaclava, & fire proof linings in helmet.

If you worry about fire a good start is not to wear nylon or fleece garments which melt with heat.

Nomex wash recommendation

 

1. Temperature and duration of washing and drying cycles :

It is adequate to wash NOMEX® garments at 60°C. Using a higher temperature may not bring any benefit, and indeed may simply contribute to overall energy consumption. Always observe the washing recommendation of the garment manufacturer.

The washing cycle should not exceed 1 hour.

It is important to include a rinse cycle that adequately removes residual soap and detergents.

Drying can be done in a tumble drier and temperatures normally used are 60°C, or up to 90°C in industrial laundry environments. The important factor in drying is not to overdry. It is better to give the garments a shorter drying cycle and remove them while still slightly damp, than to remove them bone-dry. This is because excessive agitation can cause localised damage such as abrasion.

 

2. pH of soaps and detergents :

 

Best is to use a liquid detergent with a near-neutral pH, certainly not exceeding pH 9.0. Liquids can be more easily handled than powdered soaps.

If localised dirty oil stains are difficult to remove, they can be treated, before putting into the washing machine, with neat liquid soap applied to the locality of the stains and light rubbing to assist the action of the soap.

It is known that particular attention must be given to pH of soaps used with garments in colours of navy blue, royal blue, greens and greys, and in these cases it is best to select soaps and detergents with pH of 8.0 or below.

NOMEX® garments should never be bleached by any chlorine bleach or strong oxidising agent such as peroxide, and under no circumstances should caustic washing agents be used.

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I have been thinking about getting a flight suit, which raises a question; How come I never see anyone wearing a black one? Is there some kind of "unwritten rule" that says they have to be either beige or green? :huh:

 

And what do you guys wear under them,...are you fully clothed, or is it just "tighty-whitties" and socks? :D

 

Oh,...and do the NomexIIIA ones shrink in the wash? :o

 

 

 

 

Ok when I fly i usually where a pair of marine corp running shorts. So I can take it off if I need to. A tee shirt underneath it of course. You need to measure around your chest and get the right size. If not it will be digging in places you dont want it. Now the Nomex part. You do not want to wash the flight suit in fabric softener or the nomex will wash out later down the road. If you do wash in fabric softener when it washes out it feels like pajamas. It does not shrink if you buy Mil-Spec. I have never warn non mil-spec. so can not comment on those. Any more questions let me know.

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Please Please explain how Nomex washes out? it is a thread, "read" material, Not a chemical treatment.

lots of choice here

http://www.advantagegear.com/index.php?get=sub_cat&cat=Flame+Resistant+Apparel+and+Raingear&cat_id=20&page_title=Flame+Resistant+Apparel+and+Raingear

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Please Please explain how Nomex washes out? it is a thread, "read" material, Not a chemical treatment.

lots of choice here

http://www.advantagegear.com/index.php?get=sub_cat&cat=Flame+Resistant+Apparel+and+Raingear&cat_id=20&page_title=Flame+Resistant+Apparel+and+Raingear

 

 

I got my information from the US Navy and now wiki and the Nomex manufacture as well. The navy requires us to trade in year old flight suits because 'the Nomex washes out" there exact wording. The fibers brake done that makes up the Nomex with continuous washing. They are very strict on the way we should wash them do to the fiber being so week.

 

Now wiki;

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nomex

 

Nomex and related aramid polymers are related to nylon, but have aromatic backbones, and hence are more rigid and more durable. Nomex is the premier example of a meta variant of the aramids (Kevlar is a para aramid). Unlike Kevlar, Nomex cannot align during filament formation and has poorer strength. It has excellent thermal, chemical, and radiation resistance.

 

Aramid fibers are a class of heat-resistant and strong synthetic fibers. They are used in aerospace and military applications, for ballistic rated body armor fabric and ballistic composites, in bicycle tires, and as an asbestos substitute. The name is a portmanteau of "aromatic polyamide". They are fibers in which the chain molecules are highly oriented along the fiber axis, so the strength of the chemical bond can be exploited.

 

 

The manufacture;

 

http://www2.dupont.com/Personal_Protection/en_US/products/Nomex/nomexind/nomex_industrial_faq.html#12QD

 

 

Does Nomex® Protective Apparel require special laundering techniques?

Normal home, commercial and industrial laundering and dry techniques are suitable. Because the flame -resistant protection is part of the aramid fiber it cannot be washed or worn out, even if the garment is mishandled. Recommended laundering procedures are available. Many companies consider industrial laundering programs to ensure their garments are thoroughly cleaned and properly maintained and to implement and manage their Protective Apparel programs.

 

Nomex® Protective Apparel garments are extremely durable and stand up well to repeated launderings and use. Fabrics have very low initial shrinkage (1 % to 3% ) and maintain their size and shape over the life of the garment. Nomex® Protective Apparel garments come out of the dryer ready to wear and rarely need pressing.

 

Chlorine bleach should not be used on Nomex® protective garments. Chlorine bleach or other additives will not remove the flame protection as they can with flame-retardant treated fabrics; however, to preserve garment strength and prolong garment life, chlorine bleach should not be used.

 

Caution: Thoroughly remove greases, oily soil and other flammable contaminants from Nomex® protective garments. Flammable contaminants serve as a fuel source and will reduce the thermal performance of any garment. Tears or rips should be repaired with components made from Nomex® brand fabric, sewing thread, zipper tapes and patches. Go to top

 

 

Now if you read through Duponts crap yes you are right it does not wash out. IF you think about testing for mil-spec which is much worse then Duponts there is reasoning they say it "washes out" In wiki it says the fibers get there strength from the chemical bond of the way fibers are constructed in a weave pattern, basically. What does a washer and dry do to your cloths? it stretches and beats the crap out of them which weakens the bond and can mess up the chemical bond which could cause it not to perform up to standards. If you do not follow the washing instructions like using fabric softener, drying on the wrong setting using the wrong water temp you will damage the material causing the "wash out"

 

Please do not take this message as me trying to blast you or be a smart but, just answering your question with wear the info I got came from.

 

Very Respectively, EYW

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At the school I'm at there are a couple prior service Army pilots who wear their black flight suits. I had never seen them before that, I guess it is a unit specific thing. Naturally though one would expect them to be hotter in the sun than something like a tan flight suit. When I was in the Coast Guard my unit always wore navy blue flight suits. Most people just wore shorts and a t-shirt underneath, like regular gym clothes. Personally, I always wore Under Armour compression under my flight suit to help stay cool. I know everyone says how horrible that is to wear polyester in case there is a fire, but I guess that is a risk I took for the comfort. I've never had them shrink on me when washing, but I do agree washing them frequently wears them out a lot faster and the material will feel softer. Oh ya, I guess there are also different weights or thicknesses to some of the different colors or models of flight suits, but I don't know any details on that.

 

Both flight schools where I'm at require instructors to wear flight suits. Actually, one school requires black flight suits for instructors and tan for students. The other day a buddy of mine at that school was telling me his instructor yelled at him for having his sleeves rolled up a couple folds on his flight suit. That seemed a bit much to me. The school I'm at doesn't make it mandatory for students to wear flight suits yet. I just have to sign a waiver saying I realize the risks of not wearing one (also not allowed to wear boots). It's just personal preference I guess, but after reading this I see I'm not the only one who would prefer not to wear a flight suit every flight.

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Check with your school. If they do not care what color it is, then pick what ever you want. You are the one spending all that money on just one. I would say go with something that looks more professional. I think black does. I prefer brown. Just remember though every day all day is an interview. I know the military has standards in rolling selves on flight suits for safety. It is no more then two rolls. because if you wear your gloves they go up that far and you are still protected.

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Fortunately I do not have to wear a flight suit. It seems, from everything I read, it does not wash out. I do have an old flight suit, though. I am going to conduct a scientific experiment, first by cutting it in half. One half I will not wash. This will be the "control" sample. The other half I will wash and dry repeatedly and try to start it on fire (not while wearing it) after each washing and high temp drying. I will post the results and edit wikipedia (if necessary). No, I am not really going to do this.

Edited by helonorth
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That sounds great. I would be very interested to know how a real test done by someone I "know" via the forum turns out. Please keep us posted! Thank you. Use a butane torch that should give you high temp like a crash fire. This is exciting. I can not wait for the up dates. You are the man. I love stuff like this.

 

VR EYW

 

I vote you up. I like experiments. :D

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