lvflyer Posted July 8, 2011 Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 We purchased a couple helicopters in a business transaction in hopes to take over existing contracts. We found out what was on paper wasn't true so now we have a 206L and a 412 with updated avionics located in central Illinois looking for things to do with them. We would prefer keeping them within our reach so leasing them to the Gulf or overseas is not an option. Do any of you have any suggestions on what we can do with these as a business to make them profitable? We aren't in a position to hire qualified pilots unless the pilot comes with some type of business opportuntity that justifies the salary. The pilots that are in the company aren't yet even qualified to fly them. We know it is not good to let these sit for any length of time and would rather not have to sell them, but everything has its price. I think in this economy though it would be tough to get out of them what is in them. So what can we do as any type of operation that would at least keep them flying and covering the hangar and other expenses? How do we break into power line inspection, or police or search and rescue contracting. Maybe some type of aerial surveillance. We thought about offering a travelling aerial photography for major events like Nascar, but discovered the teams have their own choppers for that. Any other ideas like that? We are just not familiar with these waters and can use some help navigating. It's a shame to let millions of dollars just sit here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helonorth Posted July 8, 2011 Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 Cut your losses and sell them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gary-mike Posted July 8, 2011 Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 Lease them out to someone closer, It is impossible to get contracts for helicopters with no pilots qualified to fly them. Or you could cut your losses, give them to me, and I will lease them out until I am qualified to operate them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gomer Pylot Posted July 9, 2011 Report Share Posted July 9, 2011 Either dry-lease them to whoever you can, or sell them. Otherwise you're going to lose a lot of money. Keeping them close is going to cost you more than you can afford, IMO. Helicopters are very, very expensive to maintain, and if you plan to have them on a Part 135 certificate, they take a lot of maintaining. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heligirl03 Posted July 9, 2011 Report Share Posted July 9, 2011 Based on everything you said, I agree with everyone above. Being entrenched in the industry already, I'm sure most of us read this and shook our heads. Helicopters are just not an industry you "break into" with no established contracts, no qualified pilots, no travel, and no disposable capital. Dry lease 'em or sell 'em, whichever comes first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helonorth Posted July 9, 2011 Report Share Posted July 9, 2011 If this is real (no offence, seems unlikely) unload the 412. Without it being on a 135 certificate, there is almost nothing you can do with it. The 206 you could advertise and get some photo and air ride work (part 91 stuff) and at least keep it flying. The 206 would probably be much easier to sell, though. Maybe you could give air rides in the 412! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike Posted July 9, 2011 Report Share Posted July 9, 2011 (edited) Sorry to hear it hasnt worked out. Just out of curiosity, howd the logging go? Id sell both… Do this through a reputable broker. Numero-uno rule in this business; is to have the work prior to acquiring the aircraft. This rule is broken often and many folks have found themselves in the same unfortunate situation. Futhermore, a lot of people break this rule in the hopes of building flight time which breaks many other unwritten industry rules….. Good luck with whatever you choose to do.. Edited July 9, 2011 by Spike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lvflyer Posted July 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2011 Fellow pilots I just want you to understand, money? not an issue. Just don't want them to sit. Insurance? not an issue, self insured. Storage and transportation, not an issue. We just want to do something to justify them. I am a commercial fixed wing pilot with my own airplane and a measly 1000+ PIC out of my pocket. I know all the issues with 135 and commercial and qualified first pilots, etc. and that is why the contracts didn't work out. It was a scam to unload the assets that we fell in to. If we can get some use out of these then we don't have to dump them. Got a good deal so not worried about recouping costs either. There are no places around here to rent helicopters so it would be nice to have them around just for the kicks. It would be nicer to make enough doing something to pay for them though. Just looking for ideas and I thank you for your time. In today's economy there has got to be a way to time-share or share the expenses amongst smaller communities and not have to live in big metropolis to make them pay. I had contact with Silverstate, I know hold up the crosses. I saw what was going on early on and got ejected from the inner circle because I talked too much. With that being said, Jerry had some good ideas that would have worked had he not gotten greedy. One of those ideas was having a helicopter available for small town and communities in an area where their city budget would pay a small standby fee with the promise of certain time for response for any aerial search or observation requirements. The issue is how does one approach this idea? We have someone in the area that gives rides in an R44, but would it be more of an interest to the public in a 206? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChprPlt Posted July 10, 2011 Report Share Posted July 10, 2011 A helicoper is a helicopter to the general public. 206 or 44 doesnt matter to most people. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r22butters Posted July 10, 2011 Report Share Posted July 10, 2011 Fellow pilots I just want you to understand, money? not an issue. Just don't want them to sit. Insurance? not an issue, self insured. Storage and transportation, not an issue. We just want to do something to justify them. I am a commercial fixed wing pilot with my own airplane and a measly 1000+ PIC out of my pocket. I know all the issues with 135 and commercial and qualified first pilots, etc. and that is why the contracts didn't work out. It was a scam to unload the assets that we fell in to. If we can get some use out of these then we don't have to dump them. Got a good deal so not worried about recouping costs either. There are no places around here to rent helicopters so it would be nice to have them around just for the kicks. It would be nicer to make enough doing something to pay for them though. Just looking for ideas and I thank you for your time. In today's economy there has got to be a way to time-share or share the expenses amongst smaller communities and not have to live in big metropolis to make them pay. I had contact with Silverstate, I know hold up the crosses. I saw what was going on early on and got ejected from the inner circle because I talked too much. With that being said, Jerry had some good ideas that would have worked had he not gotten greedy. One of those ideas was having a helicopter available for small town and communities in an area where their city budget would pay a small standby fee with the promise of certain time for response for any aerial search or observation requirements. The issue is how does one approach this idea? We have someone in the area that gives rides in an R44, but would it be more of an interest to the public in a 206? Find a nice place (somewhere tourists and locals would like to see from the air), buy a trailer, sit the 206 next to it, and hire me to give rides. Problem solved. p.s. The 206 would allow you to take up more/heavier people, than an R44. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike Posted July 11, 2011 Report Share Posted July 11, 2011 Fellow pilots I just want you to understand, money? not an issue. Just don't want them to sit. Insurance? not an issue, self insured. Storage and transportation, not an issue. We just want to do something to justify them. I am a commercial fixed wing pilot with my own airplane and a measly 1000+ PIC out of my pocket. I know all the issues with 135 and commercial and qualified first pilots, etc. and that is why the contracts didn't work out. It was a scam to unload the assets that we fell in to. If we can get some use out of these then we don't have to dump them. Got a good deal so not worried about recouping costs either. There are no places around here to rent helicopters so it would be nice to have them around just for the kicks. It would be nicer to make enough doing something to pay for them though. Just looking for ideas and I thank you for your time. In today's economy there has got to be a way to time-share or share the expenses amongst smaller communities and not have to live in big metropolis to make them pay. I had contact with Silverstate, I know hold up the crosses. I saw what was going on early on and got ejected from the inner circle because I talked too much. With that being said, Jerry had some good ideas that would have worked had he not gotten greedy. One of those ideas was having a helicopter available for small town and communities in an area where their city budget would pay a small standby fee with the promise of certain time for response for any aerial search or observation requirements. The issue is how does one approach this idea? We have someone in the area that gives rides in an R44, but would it be more of an interest to the public in a 206? IMO…….. You say money is not an issue. Okay then, off the 412 (there is no place for a 412 in the speculation market) and donate the 206 to a local police/fire agency. Even then, you’re limited without the 135 certificate and the HMFIC will wonder why you can’t take them from point A to point B…. Another avenue to consider, since money is not an issue, is flight instruction. Simply charge the going rate for a R22 for the 206 time and that machine will be flying all-day-every-day…. And, this I can help you with… Then again, no matter how you slice it, it would appear offing both machines is your best option… 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam32 Posted July 14, 2011 Report Share Posted July 14, 2011 Is this the 412 that was a logger? Is it pretty light? Bubble door? If they dropped 200+ lbs off of it their might be some utility work out there for it, if its still heavy as a hog then sell it asap. Keep the 206L (what model L?) and hire a pilot, lots of them unemployed and willing to work right now, and start doing rides, photo flights, etc...then send it out west in the spring for ag work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lvflyer Posted July 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 Just so you don't think I am a flake. We have decided to leave the 412 in Canada and keep it working. The economy is booming up there. The 206L has been given a clean bill of health by a mechanic in Florida and will be on its way to Central Illinois by flatbed in mid August. I still don't have details on the exact model of the 206L, but it has upgraded glass cockpit and is configured for FLIR, but we don't have the equipment. We have decided to not lease it and take the chance of losing the opportunity to fly it ourselves. We are relatively low time rotorcraft pilots and could not fly Part 135 so we are still looking for Part 91 things that we can participate in. We will consider renting it to qualified pilots or pilots with a qualified instructor to keep it flying. FYI there are no 206s anywhere near here. The local airshow was this past weekend and the helicopter rides were continuous. They were given in 2 R44s at $25 per person for about a 5 minute ride. I think he made some money. The only down time was when the Heavy Metal Air Team was in the air. The rides immediately resumed once they landed. So lots and lots of money for the owner. Of course you have to consider employees, travel and lodging, and other expenses. So keep those suggestions coming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Hill Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 Just so you don't think I am a flake. We have decided to leave the 412 in Canada and keep it working. The economy is booming up there. The 206L has been given a clean bill of health by a mechanic in Florida and will be on its way to Central Illinois by flatbed in mid August. I still don't have details on the exact model of the 206L, but it has upgraded glass cockpit and is configured for FLIR, but we don't have the equipment. We have decided to not lease it and take the chance of losing the opportunity to fly it ourselves. We are relatively low time rotorcraft pilots and could not fly Part 135 so we are still looking for Part 91 things that we can participate in. We will consider renting it to qualified pilots or pilots with a qualified instructor to keep it flying. FYI there are no 206s anywhere near here. The local airshow was this past weekend and the helicopter rides were continuous. They were given in 2 R44s at $25 per person for about a 5 minute ride. I think he made some money. The only down time was when the Heavy Metal Air Team was in the air. The rides immediately resumed once they landed. So lots and lots of money for the owner. Of course you have to consider employees, travel and lodging, and other expenses. So keep those suggestions coming. They were using an R-44, your profit margin using a Longranger will not be good, unless you're flights are less than 1 minute long. You should lease it or sell it and buy an R44! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r22butters Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 The only down time was when the Heavy Metal Air Team was in the air. So, who are they,...a couple of Hueys showing off with Judas Priest playing in the background? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBuzzkill Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam32 Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 Whats the weight on the 412? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Hill Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 Whats the weight on the 412? 11,900lbs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam32 Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 11,900lbs I'm wondering what his empty weight is...it should be pretty light if they are logging with it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Hill Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 (edited) I'm wondering what his empty weight is...it should be pretty light if they are logging with it... They are logging with a 412?!?!? My understanding is that the 412 is under-powered and and a low useful load. Am I wrong? Edited July 25, 2011 by B-Hill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lvflyer Posted July 26, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 26, 2011 OK my bad. We discussed heli-logging, but actually it is being used for seeding, hay bailing, for after fire support. And doing cutting crew airlift. And general lift loads, fuel bladders etc. Also using flir camera to look for hot spot. And it can be re-configured for SAR, and emergency airlift in about a hour or less. I still don't have detailed specs, but will soon. Still in Canada though so I assume you all are just curious. They are logging with a 412?!?!? My understanding is that the 412 is under-powered and and a low useful load. Am I wrong? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kamriver Posted July 26, 2011 Report Share Posted July 26, 2011 i have seen a 412 in bc, canada, actually two of them. one I see is blue and white and has no hook and if Im not mistaken is the air ambulance for interior bc, canada. sounds like you were ripped off by a company or something? i would be willing to bet you would have no problem selling the 412. i saw one for sale on a kamloops, bc companies web site, is that your machine? your story seems abit odd I have to say, I dont know how you could have been ripped off or whatever,someone with loads of money like yourself posting this story is odd to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam32 Posted July 26, 2011 Report Share Posted July 26, 2011 They are logging with a 412?!?!? My understanding is that the 412 is under-powered and and a low useful load. Am I wrong? You're 100% correct, that's why I was curious... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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