helicopter444 Posted July 18, 2011 Report Share Posted July 18, 2011 My 3 year old Raven 1 with only 300 hours total time was found to have blade delaminating despite maintaining the blades to Robinson recommendations. The bond line has never been exposed as I have kept them well painted, and I have washed blades after every flight. I had to buy new blades and my helicopter was out of service for six weeks. This has been financially devastating from both a replacement cost and loss of revenue. FAA AD 6/17/11 indicates the FAA is considering mandating the replacement of R22 and R44 rotor blades. R44 Bladder Tank Retrofit • Service Bulletin SB-78 requires all R44 helicopters to be retrofitted with bladder tanks.• Owners must pay for the retrofit at an estimated cost of $12,000• Additional financial losses to commercial owner operators include the approximate 2 week downtime for the installation• Owners can only purchase the Bladder Tank from Robinson• Robinson will profit off the estimated 5000 owners affected by Robinson's mandated retrofit We have power in numbers so if enough Robinson helicopter owners join our cause we can put pressure on Robinson Helicopter Company to do right by its customers and if not we will proceed with a class action lawsuit against Robinson Helicopters. Please join us at www.robinsonhelicoptercomplaints.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apiaguy Posted July 19, 2011 Report Share Posted July 19, 2011 (edited) I must admit I laughed a littled when I read this...Welcome to aviation. You don't have to comply with the tank mod unless you operate your aircraft under part 135. You wanted a cheap product... ok.. that's a little unfair... I suppose all designs go thru quite a teething process... that's why it is nice to own and fly designs that have been around a while. I do feel however that the threat of a lawsuit merely shows why it is so difficult and expensive to get anything new in aviation... I personally hope you do not succeed. Edited July 19, 2011 by apiaguy 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goldy Posted July 19, 2011 Report Share Posted July 19, 2011 My 3 year old Raven 1 with only 300 hours total time was found to have blade delaminating despite maintaining the blades to Robinson recommendations. The bond line has never been exposed as I have kept them well painted, and I have washed blades after every flight. What abou the end caps? Did you remove them and check for corrosion per the AD? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gary-mike Posted July 19, 2011 Report Share Posted July 19, 2011 Wouldn't it be better for both the company and the customer if they did more testing on a dedicated factory owned ACFT, or used proven technology instead of using the customers ACFT as a test bed? Either way since they seem to be experimenting still, maybe they should try a carbon fiber rotor with some weights in the ends for inertia. Yeah it would be expensive but if it worked good enough to last 2-3 times as long I'm sure it would be cheeper in the long run. I'm not one for trying to sue anyone, but I do know that for any vehicle I have owned the company/dealer sucked up the cost for any recall item. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naflight Posted July 19, 2011 Report Share Posted July 19, 2011 Since we're a component overhaul center, we get to see quite a few abuses to these aircraft. Believe it or not, one of the worst abuses we see here are the Robinson rotor blades. You would not believe the blades that come in. Corrosion from operating in marine climates has been the worst. But nothing beats the almost perfect blade that has a tiny bit of delam at the end, right under the end cap. I asked one of the techs what caused this and I was surprised at the reply. Occasionally a tech will get lazy when removing the end cap off the blade. They will undo only one fastener and "tap" the end cap to rotate it. While part of the cap is still tight to the blade, it will lift (debond) a tiny section of the blade, sometimes so slight it wont show up until the next inspection. Like I said, I'm not an A+P, just relaying information I've learned. I have pics of a few times this has happened. This is the only delam we've seen and we've put thousands of hours on our helis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RagMan Posted July 19, 2011 Report Share Posted July 19, 2011 Wouldn't it be better for both the company and the customer if they did more testing on a dedicated factory owned ACFT, or used proven technology instead of using the customers ACFT as a test bed? Either way since they seem to be experimenting still, maybe they should try a carbon fiber rotor with some weights in the ends for inertia. Yeah it would be expensive but if it worked good enough to last 2-3 times as long I'm sure it would be cheeper in the long run. I'm not one for trying to sue anyone, but I do know that for any vehicle I have owned the company/dealer sucked up the cost for any recall item. While carbon fiber blades would probably be a good idea (seeing as how the weight reduction in carbon fiber would be able to allow the addition of weights at the end to supplement a high inertia system without compromising any additional weight to the aircraft) the cost would sky rocket the R22. Carbon fiber isn't cheap these days. I'm sure Frank pondered the idea of carbon fiber blades, but chose to keep the aircraft as low cost as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r22butters Posted July 19, 2011 Report Share Posted July 19, 2011 ...Occasionally a tech will get lazy when removing the end cap off the blade. They will undo only one fastener and "tap" the end cap to rotate it. While part of the cap is still tight to the blade, it will lift (debond) a tiny section of the blade, sometimes so slight it wont show up until the next inspection. I remember them going over this, when I was at the Safety Course last month. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naflight Posted July 19, 2011 Report Share Posted July 19, 2011 I remember them going over this, when I was at the Safety Course last month. It's interesting to see it first hand. You should see the beating these parts take. I have so many pictures of sprags, blades, belts, etc... I should really post them sometime. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
500E Posted July 19, 2011 Report Share Posted July 19, 2011 "Since we're a component overhaul centre, we get to see quite a few abuses to these aircraft. Believe it or not, one of the worst abuses we see here are the Robinson rotor blades. You would not believe the blades that come in. Corrosion from operating in marine climates has been the worst."So not a good thing to buy a Robinson in the UK then where you are only around 70 miles from the sea where ever you live.As for the tank will R do the end of life rebuild without fitting it? & does the cost cover repainting?.I still think a spar with a one piece skin is the way to go for blades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLH Posted July 19, 2011 Report Share Posted July 19, 2011 So for those who operate in hot and humid environments, it's a crap shoot as to whether or not debonding will occur, no matter how well the paint is maintained. No wonder the FAA alluded to manadatory MRB replacement as a future possibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naflight Posted July 20, 2011 Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 The big mystery is how they got to that point to begin with Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naflight Posted July 20, 2011 Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 (edited) I guess what I'm trying to say is we've operated thousands of hours in the flight training environment (not easy on the helicopters). Never had a problem with delam. We pay attention and address the issues before they occur. Here's a picture of one of the blades I mentioned. Note on the leading edge of the end cap - corrosion. This blade was obviously not taken care of. Note the bond line too.... If anyone cares I will post more. Edited July 20, 2011 by naflight 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick McWilliams Posted July 20, 2011 Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 (edited) I would love to see more photos of abused blades. This wear must have taken hundreds of hours and been visible for several inspections. Maybe this was just one little encounter with hail. Maybe a bit of tree trimming. Edited July 20, 2011 by Rick McWilliams Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kodoz Posted July 20, 2011 Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 Here's a picture of one of the blades I mentioned. Note on the leading edge of the end cap - corrosion. This blade was obviously not taken care of. Note the bond line too.... This a photo of the top or bottom of the blade? I know what the AD (and our A&P) says...any thoughts on exposing the bond line on the top of the blade? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trans Lift Posted July 20, 2011 Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 Does anyone else here use blade tape on their 44 blades? We got the use of it approved and it helps out in the abrasive environment we operate in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naflight Posted July 21, 2011 Report Share Posted July 21, 2011 (edited) If I remember correctly, the light area along the edge was where the skin had lifted. Since it was so far behind the bond line it was decided this was a cap removal de-bond. Edited July 21, 2011 by naflight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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