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Flight Instruction vs. Tours


  

30 members have voted

  1. 1. For the 200hr Pilot; Which is more hazardous / dangerous / requires more experience to do safely?

    • Flight instruction in an R22 / R44 / S300
      23
    • Tours in a Jet Ranger / A-Star / Eco-Star?
      7


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Lets try it from this angle.

 

 

Both of these endeavos is done; with another person on board, in Congested Areas, at High DAs and Gross Weights, dealing with both Weather and Maintenance issues, and in aircraft in which we don't have a ton of time (although the 200hr CFI, has 200hrs in that R22/S300, and at least 20-50hrs in the R44, I'm not sure how much time in Turbines, those new Tour Pilots have before they start taking passengers up at Tempsco and Papillion? (who, once a year, require 0 to be hired)).

 

 

I know I'm 'beating a dead horse',...so feel free to "red mark" me as much as you like.

:)

 

 

In case you are wondering, 200hr Butters was in Phoenix, in the Summer, doing a ton of off-airport landings, (on plenty of high-ass, jagged, ridgelines, and tight, confined areas surrounded by huge rocks) in an R44 (sometimes with a student observing in the back seat), for his Commercial training.

Edited by r22butters
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I would say that these are comparing apples and oranges. When a student steps into a helicopter for instruction, he knows the risks hes getting into (maybe not all of them initially, but he must have some idea), and hes willing to take those risks. He knows (or should know) the experience of his instructor and is willing to accept it. The student pilot should know his personal limitations and has the ability to stop the flight, and switch instructors if those boundaries are crossed.

 

A tour on the other hand is a completely different problem. A tour pilot has 2 or 3 innocent souls on board that most likely have no idea what is or isnt dangerous in a helicopter. it is very unlikely that a passenger is going to voice his/her concerns over the safety of the flight, because it would insult the pilot, and the passenger assumes that he is experienced and safe anyway. A certain video of a tour in Brazil comes to mind.

 

Of course, an irresponsible pilot will be an irresponsible pilot. It doesnt matter whether he or she is flying tours or giving instruction or has 1500 hours or 150 hours. Any type of flight can be dangerous or not dangerous. It depends how responsible the pilot is, not how thick the logbook is.

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it is very unlikely that a passenger is going to voice his/her concerns over the safety of the flight, because it would insult the pilot, and the passenger assumes that he is experienced and safe anyway.

 

This reminds me of a test I did a couple of times while getting bored flying tours. I would very sneakily hold down the fire light test button and watch for reactions. Out of about 5 times I did it, no one said anything. A couple of people nudged the person next to them and pointed at the light but no one ever spoke up. After I saw a reaction but no one said anything I would tell them what I did. Fly tours for a year and you will experience the true ignorance people have about flying and the lack of respect they have for what we do. I honestly think the hardest part of flying tours is the babysitting of passengers.

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I honestly think the hardest part of flying tours is the babysitting of passengers.

Absolutely. Babysitting the passengers while trying to stay on top of the machine.

Good ground crew makes things much easier. Hard to compare with instruction really, it depends way too much on the environment.

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It seems that I've had to baby sit the student more than the sight see-ers because they have random and sparatic movements of the cyclic when they are trying to hover :blink: !! At least I can tell the tourist to keep his hands off the controls!! LOL!!

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Posted 26 July 2011 - 20:13

 

snapback.pngr22butters, on 26 July 2011 - 09:09, said:

 

So which one should a 200hr pilot be eating, apples or oranges? :D

 

Ramen... ;)

 

At least as an instructor you can afford Ramen...fixed wingers first job after instruction won't even allow that!

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  • 1 month later...

Seems like to me, that in order to be pilot you have to like noodles! Alot of noodles!:)

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  • 3 weeks later...
:D Its not about which is more dangerous per say, it is more about which has the greater casuality. The instructor and the student are more aware of the risk they are taking. The people going on the tours are not. They don't know that their pilot only has 200 hours of experience. At 200 hours a person shouldn't be giving instruction or flying tours, they are both dangerous. Any pilot that cares to argue my point...bring it on! Edited by Logan
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why am I willing to engage this? I don't know... I must be bored...

I was giving rides/tours/instruction with only 55 hours helicopter time. Was it dangerous? Maybe. I really don't see the point here... Are helicopters dangerous? Yes... Are low time pilots dangerous? Yes...

What is the answer to your question? Should only high time pilots fly people around? Seems to me that 150 hours (or 200 for Robo's) is sufficiently long enough to be able to fly the dang helicopter with or without people. Jeez this is stupid. See it once.. Do it once.. teach it once... has always worked for me. Maybe I'm not factoring in all the retarded people out there and that is why I'm so cavalier... so for you Logan... You should probabally have more time before you give rides. :)

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I don't buy into the whole "the poor passengers don't know what kind of danger they are putting themselves in!" line. This already assumes that you are subjecting them to unacceptable risk, surreptitiously, which I do not agree. The arguement (I thought) was whether is dangerous or not to fly tours at 200 hours? If you don't feel comfortable flying tours at 200 hours, don't. My boss with 1000's of hours was okay with it, I was okay with it, I lived to tell the tale. I would much prefer to put my family on a tour with a 200 hour pilot than put one of them on an VFR EMS helicopter at night in with a 2000 hour pilot. I guess some peoples reasoning should then be that you should not take passengers until you get up to, what, 500 hours? Oh yeah, your friends and family will know what a terribly risky and dangerous situation they are putting themselves in by flying with you!

Edited by helonorth
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