Judgment…. You make the call…

[Spike]

Judgment…. You make the call…

 

1. Today you’re going to fly the company aircraft into the field for a 2 to 3 month survey contract to fly approximately 200 to 250 hours. As you preflight the helicopter you find a through-and-through crack on one of the main rotor blade leading edge abrasion strips. The crack emanates inboard along the leading edge approximately one-quarter of an inch long from the blade tip. You advise your mechanic and the DOM. They both show a sign of heightened concern due to the crack itself and the fact there are no extra blades are available. As the DO arrives, he says to fill the crack with metal-set and keep an eye on it for the duration of the contract. What do you do?

 

2. You’ve prepositioned the helicopter the night before with the 400lb camera ball installed for a live next-day sporting event broadcast. You tell the fuel guy just to add 40 gallons of fuel. As you arrive the next morning about 1 hour early to ready the ship, you find the fuel dude had topped you off and because of that; you calculate you’re somewhat over-gross by roughly 100 lbs. To add to the predicament it’s 90 degrees outside at sea level. What do you do?

 

3. You arrive at the hangar at 5 am for a 7 am survey flight. With the aircraft already preflaught, you notice the level of moisture in the air, and you can see the halo effect in the ramp lights. You check the weather and it is clear with 10 miles visibility. The pick up point is on a ridge top helipad approximately 7 miles to the east at 1200 feet (you’re at sea level). At 0515 hours you can clearly see the area of the LZ in the rising sun. The area which you operate is well known for microclimates. You check the weather at 0530 and it’s now 600 overcast with 6 miles visibility. The overcast layer is approaching from the west. Even with the ASOS weather report; you can still see the LZ. What do you do?

 

Some of the details have been omitted to prevent confusion. The one common aspect with all of the questions is “for hire”. As already brought to our attention, this is not rocket science…….. people…

[SBuzzkill]

1. I don't know much about blade repair but if that's not an approved technique I'm not going to fly.

 

2. Defuel.

 

3. Edited: Skipped over the survey part, for some reason I thought it was a there and back thing. I wouldn't go flying if recovery to base is going to be hindered by the weather.

Edited August 5, 2011 by SBuzzkill

[kodoz]

1. No idea, but "keep an eye on it" doesn't sound like a good plan to me.

 

2. There is no such thing as "somewhat" over limits. Fuel comes off, and hopefully I also had the wherewithal to consider the forecast temp when I made the initial order. Because this is a time-sensitive flight, I might be raising a stink to motivate.

 

3. Deteriorating weather conditions are no good. In this case, it sounds like I might end up not being able to get back into my base if the weather gets worse. Unless I have some extensive local knowledge that tells me otherwise, it sounds like I wouldn't be flying in these conditions. Worse case, the survey flight happens on a better day.

[Gomer Pylot]

"preflaught"????

[Eric Hunt]

A "Preflaught" is a preflight that was fraught with danger.

[r22butters]

I assume you're looking for the "inexperienced" point of view here, so here goes.

 

1) I'd tell the DO that I don't feel comfortable flying with what seems to be just a "band-aid" fix on the blade (it may be common practice to fix blades that way,...I don't know?, but it doesn't sound real safe).

 

I'd suggest that he find another helicopter, otherwise,..."I'm sorry, but I cannot take this contract."

 

2) I'd see if we can take the camera off, so that I could fly off the excess fuel. If not,...see if there's a hand pump to siphon out the excess (or drain it manually). Then I'd make sure I'm there the next time I order gas.

 

3) 600 overcast approaching from the west and microclimates,...sounds like my good old friend the Fog (although it usually goes the other way in the morning) In a VFR ship I'm not going to fly over the Fog. I'd call whomever I'm supposed to pick-up and say we have to reschedule due to weather.

 

I flew with a Commercial Operator once who asked me, "What do you do if the Fog comes in?" I said, "Fly another day." To which he replied, "Nope,...you take the door off and fly sideways,...because if we don't take the job, someone else will."

[lelebebbel]

Are these from accident / incident reports spike?

 

 

How about this one...

You preflight your R44 in the morning in preparation for some external load work. You notice that the tail rotor has about 30 degrees of play in direction of rotation.

[Spike]

Are these from accident / incident reports spike?

 

These are 3 real events which I was exposed to.

[RagMan]

1.) The blade's structural integrity has already been comprised. Either call in another ship to perform the operation, or fly out another M/R blade.

 

2.) De-fuel the aircraft if that's a possibility. Run the helicopter at 100% throttle to burn off the excess fuel if no other method available. Should always be with the aircraft during refuel to ensure the proper amount of fuel is taken on.

 

3.) With deteriorating weather conditions expected to overcome your base Ops as well as the intended PZ, it would be wise to for-go the pick up until a later time. Could be a small system running through that will clear up in 30 minutes. Use all available means of weather data (flight service, ASOS, weather radar if you have a smartphone handy, etc.)

Edited August 6, 2011 by RagMan

[r22butters]

Since we're sharing experiences now, I've got one.

 

A friend is in town from back East (just for a few days) since he's never been in a helicopter before, he's really eager for you to take him up for a ride.

 

While preflighting the R22 you notice there's no visible indication of oil in the MR gear box. You call back to the shop and the CFI who's been flying it all day says, "Yeah it does that every so often, but we just put oil in it, so you're good to go."

 

What do you do?

 

Sorry, I forgot a couple of things,...There's no other visible signs of oil loss, and you'd already put fuel in.

Edited August 6, 2011 by r22butters

[rotorwashed]

Since we're sharing experiences now, I've got one.

 

A friend is in town from back East (just for a few days) since he's never been in a helicopter before, he's really eager for you to take him up for a ride.

 

While preflighting the R22 you notice there's no visible indication of oil in the MR gear box. You call back to the shop and the CFI who's been flying it all day says, "Yeah it does that every so often, but we just put oil in it, so you're good to go."

 

What do you do?

 

Sorry, I forgot a couple of things,...There's no other visible signs of oil loss, and you'd already put fuel in.

 

dont fly that bird! "it does that every so often" just isnt gonna cut cut it for me, especially if im responsible for a passenger.

[helonorth]

I believe "preflaught" is Canadian for "preflighted". I don't know what I'd do in the first two (a least I'm too scared to give a wrong answer). As for the last one, I'd look out the window at seven and wonder why I got up and went to the airport at "0500".

Edited August 6, 2011 by helonorth

[apiaguy]

1. Check maintenance manual...it says use scotchweld on abrasion strip...Sign off logs as I'm an A&P also... fly job and be a hero.

 

2. Run it up and let it idle ..100 lbs is less than 15 gallons...and I throw out some onboard stored garbage to drop another 50 lbs (tiedowns, covers, etc..) by the time the client is ready or the mission is time to go I'm good to go, the airport tards had no way to defuel me.

 

3. I'm at the LZ in 5 min. from ignition.. pick up my cargo and back to the hangar in less than 25 min. round trip... I land in 500 overcast and 3 miles.. maybe I called SVFR on the way in if the tower was open.

 

more than one way to "get 'er done"

[Goldy]

You notice that the tail rotor has about 30 degrees of play in direction of rotation.

 

Thats just a bad thing.

[lelebebbel]

Thats just a bad thing.

 

Most people would say that, but these guys took off anyhow.

 

Turns out it means that your clutch shaft is failing inside the freewheeling unit.

[Spike]

In this day and age with pacification and political correctness, sayings like “there are no wrong answers” tend to delude our common sense. While I use this term loosely, I’m under no illusion; there are without a doubt wrong answers. For example, tossing a moltof cocktail in the cockpit with any of the 3 scenarios would be, in fact, a wrong answer. Regardless, the conclusion I came to under these circumstances might not match other opinions presented, especially here on the internet. Plus, with the limited information I provided there will always remain the possibility of no wrong answers. Having said that, at the time this is the call I made, and why.

 

1) The DO is the boss, the man, the head cheese, head honcho or the HMFIC. His interest is 10 fold of what yours are. Yes, he wants to profit the business but not to the expense of a losing a machine or a pilot (contrary to popular belief). Generally, the DO has it going on. That is, if he says you’re good to go, then you’re probably go to go. If you question this probability, then you should have a stack of information to back you, especially in the utility sector. Spit shined prefect machines with absolutely zero flaws are rare in the utility sector. Therefore, we metal-set the crack and left the end of the crack exposed. There, we marked the crack with paint to see if, at any time, the crack migrated any further inboard (which is not likely to happen due to centrifugal force). We checked it after every flight for the first 10 hours or so and after that intermittently. After the trip ended and approximately 230 hours of flying, the crack never budged. If you feel this is “cowboyish” then I suggest you stick to the EMS, corporate and to a certain extent, the GOM sectors so you have specific policies and procedures to back you when you claim a safety concern. And, the repair was legit and signed off. In a nutshell, if this kind of stuff bothers you then the utility market is not for you. Furthermore, before you judge me, this was my first turbine gig which I paid thousands of dollars in airfare and lodging and traveled thousands miles to get. Not only that, with literally another pilot waiting in the doorway, it was either “keep an eye on it” or “pack your bags”….. No lie….

 

2) In a perfect world, we can always stand next to the machine while it’s being refueled. Then again, I don’t live in a perfect world and just so you know, neither do you. In any case, as soon as I identified the issue, I immediately did a quick prefight and tossed any nonessential items from the machine. Meanwhile, via cell phone, I contacted the customer (ESPN) and notified them of the potential problem. Naturally, as with any “live” production shoots, they basically said, “whatever it takes to have the bird overhead at the start of the show!”. With the green light from the customer, I hit the igniter and ran it on the ground for just over an hour which is when the camera operator (shooter) showed up and off we went, legally, with a hop, skid and a jump. As far as defueling…. If the “fuel tards” can’t be trusted to follow simple fueling instructions, then I’m surly not letting them near my machine to defuel. And, I know I didn’t specify but whose gonna defuel under 135 regs anyway? I can assure you, it’s not the pilot……. Defueling would have taken waaay too long and might have ended up in a catastrophe both in lost time and revenue. I’ve been here for years and other then maintenance; I’ve never needed to “defuel” a helicopter in the field. For those of you who said, “defuel”, as a matter of comparison, who of you have actually defueled in the field? Lastly, I also notified the boss of the situation and suffice it to say, he was happy with the additional revenue…..

 

3) Fortunately, I wasn’t the PIC during this episode but I was there to see the results. The scheduled pilot chose not to fly claiming the weather was deteriorating enough to hinder flight safety. He [the pilot] was kind enough to take the many calls from the customer and provide a detailed weather update every half hour or so. He also provided the customer with a somewhat brief meteorology lesson with what happens when the temperature/due point spread gets within 3 degrees (can you get the gist of this pilots personality). By 9am the customer called it quits and basically canceled the flight. Per the ASOS/ATIS, the weather never worsened then 600 and 4. Even with the reported 4 mile vis, you could still see the LZ off in the distance. If I could see the LZ from the airport, then surly the customer could see the airport from the LZ hence the reason for the numerous phone calls. The customer stood at the LZ in clear blue 32 until canceling. While the pilot didn’t receive any kind of repercussions for the lost revenue, it was made clear by the customer; he didn’t want that particular pilot assigned to their flights ever again. IMO, the pilot should have immediately repositioned the helicopter to the LZ. There, if the weather deteriorated to the point of cancelation, then the decision would have been made with the customer standing next to the machine. On that particular day, if the pilot had done so, the fight would have been conducted and upon returning from the survey, the airport was severe clear.

 

Simply wiggling the sticks and smiling at the passengers can only provide a pilot with a limited opportunity to gain experience beyond the expected. It’s experience after experience after experience which molds our judgment. Good call apiaguy! Send me a mailing address and a Superior Pilots Fly Helicopters T-shirt is yours………

[helonorth]

One thing I would NOT have done was call the customer with a problem that had nothing to do with them and they could do nothing about. Get it to a legal weight however you have to. Why would you need permission from your customer to ground run an aircraft? Of course they said do what ever you have do do to get it operational. What else could they say? Did you charge them for it? Sounds like it. I really don't think a customer should have to pay for YOUR problem. MHO.

Edited August 10, 2011 by helonorth

[Spike]

One thing I would NOT have done was call the customer with a problem that had nothing to do with them and they could do nothing about. Get it to a legal weight however you have to. Why would you need permission from your customer to ground run an aircraft? Of course they said do what ever you have do do to get it operational. What else could they say? Did you charge them for it? Sounds like it. I really don't think a customer should have to pay for YOUR problem. MHO.

 

It was either that, or potentially not be available for the start of the show. The option was to “defuel” and as explained, presented a no guarantee situation. The phone call provided authorization to “make it happen” at any cost. And, I can assure you, the ESPN multimillion dollar conglomerate didn’t care in the slightest…..

Edited August 10, 2011 by Spike

[helistar]

Well said Spike... Having grown up in the race pits and racing since I was five, I can confirm Spikes actions are exactly what Outdoor Channel, ESPN, Speed and any other network wants and expect from their pilots... They're professional organizations operating on a belief that regardless of the problem, there's always a solution...

 

ApiaGuy... Congrats, your gonna love spikes t-shirt, I've got two of them...

[DanceswithCyclic]

This is one of my favorite kinds of threads. I have been instructed.

Kevin M.

[gary-mike]

OK, so if you even take the time to read this non/hopefully future pilots perspective, let me first give some back ground. I am not an FAA certified A&P mechanic, only a 12 1/2 year Propulsion Craftsman in the Air Force... Trust me there is a difference. I have helped and worked on about all systems in a jet fighter ACFT and have been engine run Qualified since I had 2.5-3 years in (F-16's and F-15's).

 

I will tell you that when the mission is at stake, you better make something happen or have not only complete system knowledge, but black and white tech data to back you up. I suppose in the civilian sector the repurcusions are probably much worse if you lose a big contract, especially in these times.

 

I admit, I voted Apiaguy out of the negative because I saw his post as "real world", and he has the A&P background with the knowledge to make the call. That and if it was just the abrasion strip was blade structure relly compromised? (honestly don't know, different blades than I have worked with). Either way, congrats on the T-shirt apia and it is good to see that some pilots have the vision from both sides. Spike, thanks for trusting the ground grunts that are professionals at maitaining your bird and telling you she is airworthy.

 

All said, it aint (isn't) being cowboy if you know your ship, trust your maitainers, fly safely, and get the job done. But don't ever put getting the job done above your comfort zone. And never never never push a maintainer to sign something off he/she believes is bad. (No matter how much revenue is at stake) Wether your maintainer is right or wrong, he/she bears the weight of a mission lost if they deem an ACFT NMC. Trust me we will take that any day over a non flightline recovered ACFT.

[gary-mike]

Forgot to add, I love this thread, it gives some real world thinking/expectations to people like me. Fits right in with the scenario based training, and reminds us that the situations aren't always in the air.

[500F]

How about this one form back when I was a student pilot.

 

You have arrived for your first scheduled supervised cross country flight. (A whopping 20 hours under your belt)You tell the CFI that you've done the math and that we can take 20 gallons of fuel in the R-22. You hear him grumble then call and order fuel (Top both tanks)(30 gallons).

When you question him he says we'll never make it back on 20.

Your destination is a class D airport with fuel. What do you do.

[r22butters]

How about this one form back when I was a student pilot.

 

You have arrived for your first scheduled supervised cross country flight. (A whopping 20 hours under your belt)You tell the CFI that you've done the math and that we can take 20 gallons of fuel in the R-22. You hear him grumble then call and order fuel (Top both tanks)(30 gallons).

When you question him he says we'll never make it back on 20.

Your destination is a class D airport with fuel. What do you do.

 

I said to myself, "He's the instructor, he must know what he's doing." Fortunately, since attending the Safety Course, I no longer have that attitude.

[500F]

Sad isn't it. The worst part is I now know his reasonong for it is the owner yelled at him when he bought fuel anywhere but the airport where he based where he had negotiated a cheaper rate.