Is this a good time to start training as a helicopter pilot?

[heli.pilot]

While the internet provides a plethora of information, it’s not the place to find the meaning of your life...

 

...There is absolutely nutten special about me and I’m not that lucky... It was my will that allowed me to succeed and the cancerous thought of failure never entered my mind…..

 

Amen, and AMEN...

[Wally]

“Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful people with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan "press on" has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race”

 

Calvin Coolidge quotes (American 30th President of the United States, 1872-1933)

Edited August 22, 2011 by Wally

[Logan]

 

That is, when you strive to achieve your goals, sometimes even greater things happen……

 

 

Nicely put Spike. I believe the most common reason that men become helicopter pilots has to do more with finding an escape from their current career than any other reason. It is out of strong aversions men find themselves in flight school gambling with all they have left.

 

We search for an opertunity to evade the wrath of life. Some of us learn truth at an early

age and seek refuge from the misery of working a sh*t job (even a well paying sh*t job). Aviation is freedom in the purest form once a certain level in the industry is attained.

 

What Spike said is correct, sometimes greater things happen. When you go to flight school and you realize that you don't have what it takes to become a pilot, you will finally be content with yourself and fall back into mediocrity with comfort. The closest real life example I can use to describe training to become a helicopter pilot are tryouts for the Navy Seal team.

 

Thousands and thousands of applicants every year make a commitment to uncle sam for a shot at becoming one of the elite, sadly a fraction end up making it. The ones that don't make it realize they gave it their best shot and weren't good enough. It's great to come to this self realization. It is freedom in its purest form. What would it be like if everyone who wanted to could be a Navy Seal? What would it be like if everyone who wanted to could become a helicopter pilot?

Edited August 25, 2011 by Logan

[r22butters]

...I believe the most common reason that men become helicopter pilots has to do more with finding an escape from their current career than any other reason. It is out of strong aversions men find themselves in flight school gambling with all they have left.

 

You may want to ammend that to "become career helicopter pilots"? There's a HUGE difference between flying for fun (or the feeling of freedom and escape it brings), and flying for a Commercial Operator!

 

In fact, certain types of flying (things you may not really want to do, or HAVING to fly when you don't really feel like it) can actually take the "fun/freedom" out of flying, and turn it into just another "sh*t job". I found that out during my Instrument/CFI training, as well as some of the "time-building" things I've done.

 

 

The ones that don't make it realize they gave it their best shot and weren't good enough.

 

That may be true for the Navy Seal program, but any monkey can fly a helicopter. In this grossely overcrowded industry, you can "be good enough" and "give it your best shot", and still never find a job!

Edited August 25, 2011 by r22butters

[Spike]

The handsome man theory;

 

There is no man on earth that truly believes he is ugly. I’m sure, even when the Elephant Man was alive, he once gazed in the mirror and thought to himself, “I’m mildly attractive”……

 

Proof is in the pudding and regardless with what some may believe, I’ve never heard, or seen, a monkey fly a helicopter…. On the other hand, I have heard, and seen, people who should never fly a helicopter for a living…..

Edited August 26, 2011 by Spike

[ADRidge]

The closest real life example I can use to describe training to become a helicopter pilot are tryouts for the Navy Seal team.

 

I'm not sure that flying a helicopter and being a Navy SEAL are in the same ballpark.

[IFLY]

I'm not sure that flying a helicopter and being a Navy SEAL are in the same ballpark.

 

 

So, when is the last time you flew a R-22 with a passenger and temps at 39c?

[ADRidge]

About four days ago. Ohhh wait, I see what you did there.

Edited August 26, 2011 by ADRidge

[naflight]

For those that have chosen helicopters as a different career path later in life it probably comes at a great cost (money, time, sacrifice), and sometimes actually pays off in the end. It may take 5 years, it may take 20, but if you're changing careers for a reason, you're most likely doing it for one of those reasons at the top of Maslow's Heirarchy (in doing so giving up a lot of the stuff at the bottom of the pyramid).

 

It takes drive, persistence, hard work, money, etc. etc. For some the money is the easiest part of the whole journey. But for those who money is the hardest there is always hope. You can get money but you can't 'get' the other stuff.

 

The best time to get into (not jump head first) an industry is during a downturn, but it takes an even greater resolve to do so. Just think of all the CFI's and low-timers that were in during the boom that have since moved on from their flying, started families, and took other jobs to pay the bills...gone.

 

More than ever, moving from student to CFI to that first job takes sacrifice and a tremendous amount of effort. Tighten that belt - oh yea - always keep a second skill set handy.

 

The best advice in these times - train part-time, keep a day job, always have a second skill set, and don't give up. Becoming a career helicopter pilot does not have to mean "blow all your savings and do it now"..that's a flight school sales pitch.

 

"Choose a job you love, and you will never have to work a day in your life." - that quote is true.

[Logan]

I'm not sure that flying a helicopter and being a Navy SEAL are in the same ballpark.

 

 

I think you should read my post again. You are taking the point entirely the wrong way. Of course being a navy seeing is not in the same ballpark! I used "tryouts" to become a Navy Seal as an analogy to explain accepting failure. Elementary my dear Watson.

Edited August 31, 2011 by Logan

[Eggbeater]

The best time to get into (not jump head first) an industry is during a downturn, but it takes an even greater resolve to do so.

 

This is true only when you know how long the downturn will be - everyone was hoping this economy would recover in a few years. The problem is flying is a perishable skill, even more so when it comes to flight instructing. Timing is huge in this industry, especially when it comes to landing that first flight instructor job.

[Logan]

This is true only when you know how long the downturn will be - everyone was hoping this economy would recover in a few years. The problem is flying is a perishable skill, even more so when it comes to flight instructing. Timing is huge in this industry, especially when it comes to landing that first flight instructor job.

 

 

Anyone who starts flight training right now thinking they are going to become a helicopter pilot is a complete moron. Unless that is, you know someone in the business that can pull strings. The window of opportunity is over for a while. Helicopter training takes 10-14 months for a full-time student. The economy isn't going to turn around in that time. After a 2-3 jobless months post helicopter ratings, your chances of scoring a job go down by 50% or more. If you take longer than 10-14 months to complete your training, your chances of getting hired go down. Of course there is always the exception, but few and far in between. But hey, don't listen to me. I don't know what I'm talking about. I started this thread because I want to dissuade people from becoming helicopter pilots for no apparent reason. Open your eyes!!! Do your research!!! You will understand this to be true. The people in this thread supporting you to "go for it" probably own helicopter schools. And there are a lot of schools that closed down. There will be a lot more. Less students = less schools = less instructors = less helicopter pilots. I am happy to hear that schools are closing down. It's about time the industry started to trim off some fat.

Edited September 1, 2011 by Logan

[gary-mike]

Less students = less schools = less instructors = less helicopter pilots. I am happy to hear that schools are closing down. It's about time the industry started to trim off some fat.

 

You must feel pretty secure in your current possition... Shut down the schools and you have some chief pilots looking to take your job, and with your negetive attitude towards the industry chances are they would get it. In my experience most company owners want to expand and would much rather hire someone that would support and help in that endevor, not cut it in half.

 

My guess is that you want to raise the demand for pilots, therefore raising your paycheck. I think it would take longer for that to effectively happen than it would for you to change your attitude, build hours, and go for a higher paying job.

[Trans Lift]

Anyone who starts flight training right now thinking they are going to become a helicopter pilot is a complete moron. Unless that is, you know someone in the business that can pull strings. The window of opportunity is over for a while. Helicopter training takes 10-14 months for a full-time student. The economy isn't going to turn around in that time. After a 2-3 jobless months post helicopter ratings, your chances of scoring a job go down by 50% or more. If you take longer than 10-14 months to complete your training, your chances of getting hired go down. Of course there is always the exception, but few and far in between. But hey, don't listen to me. I don't know what I'm talking about. I started this thread because I want to dissuade people from becoming helicopter pilots for no apparent reason. Open your eyes!!! Do your research!!! You will understand this to be true. The people in this thread supporting you to "go for it" probably own helicopter schools. And there are a lot of schools that closed down. There will be a lot more. Less students = less schools = less instructors = less helicopter pilots. I am happy to hear that schools are closing down. It's about time the industry started to trim off some fat.

 

I think the less people we have with an attitude like yours in this industry, the better off we will be. Who are you to tell someone that they are a moron to pursue their dream, now or whenever.

[Whiteshadow]

I've seen many, many posts that tell us the helicopter industry has "always been this way". That is, too many pilots, not enough jobs, etc. If that has always been true, then it must have been true when you, Logan, decided to shoot the moon and go for it too. Are you a moron for attempting such a ludicrous venture at that time? Were you just that lucky, or did you know someone to pull the strings? It doesn't matter what your answer is. There will always be people who are willing to gamble for a chance at their dreams, and I say we are all the better because of people like that.

 

Whiteshadow

[Zurban]

I think the less people we have with an attitude like yours in this industry, the better off we will be. Who are you to tell someone that they are a moron to pursue their dream, now or whenever.

 

You know, strangely enough I somewhat appreciate when people post comments that go against the grain. It seems that people here are very hostile towards members who don't have very nice things to say about the outlook of the piloting industry, but you know, it really does keep you in check.

 

It's nice to know that I am going to have to bust my anus to achieve this instead of getting to the "finish line" (the end of flight school) only to realize that the battle has just begun.

[gary-mike]

You know, strangely enough I somewhat appreciate when people post comments that go against the grain. It seems that people here are very hostile towards members who don't have very nice things to say about the outlook of the piloting industry, but you know, it really does keep you in check.

 

It's nice to know that I am going to have to bust my anus to achieve this instead of getting to the "finish line" (the end of flight school) only to realize that the battle has just begun.

 

Anybody that is going to spend $80k or so on flight training without doing some research I would argee is a moron.

 

Someone who has done thier research and has prepared themselves financially and mentally for the challenge should be able to pursue thier goals and life dreams without being called a moron.

 

New pilots get hired everyday, but an attitude towards cutting the industry in half and trying to push people away will not put you on that hiring or promotion list.

 

I don't recall anyone on this forum ever saying it is easy to make it as a professional pilot. There are ways to convey a message professionally without slandering people. If you like the unprofessional slandering, and that is what motivates you, good on ya. I will say if that is the case, there is another forum that may provide more motivation for you. Most members on this forum try to keep thier posts professional, fun, and informative.

[r22butters]

Anybody that is going to spend $80k or so on flight training without doing some research I would argee is a moron

 

That would be me!!!

 

All I did was go to a couple of schools and talk with the rep,...but oh' well.

[Spike]

To believe everyone who enters this business will be happy or successful is a naïve belief. However, this can be said for any career path…. The fact is; some people will never be happy, or successful, no matter what career path they choose…

 

Becoming a helicopter pilot is simple and easy to do. All it takes is money. Becoming a pro though takes much, much, more. Having said this, only a fool would enter into this business “for no apparent reason”. The “reason” should be absolutely clear and without a doubt. Simply put, if you need to be “sold” on the idea of becoming a professional helicopter pilot, you’re gonna fail, guaranteed….. And, if you think merely spending the 70K for the CFII will get you a paid gig in the seat (read entitled), you’re doomed from the get go… And ditto, times ten, if you only get a commercial cert……

 

Lots of people try this career path because they couldn’t come up with anything else. Some lost in a dead-in job doing the same thing day-in-and-day-out daydreaming of an adventure. Others just unhappy and want something different. Some simply believed a sales pitch. To me, these are “reasons” to become an alcoholic, not a pilot….

 

The intent of my post’s are to inform. They are not meant to convey a “go-for-it” attitude. I do not own a flight school nor am I associated with one. It will always be difficult to succeed in this business. That is, difficult but certainly not impossible by any stretch….

 

If you fear the negative aspects, then steer clear. If you can’t, for whatever reason, obtain a CFII and aren’t willing to teach, then you’re shooting yourself in the foot. If you’re already in the business and don’t like it, then get out because there are tons of people waiting to get in regardless of your opinions…..

[r22butters]

If you can’t, for whatever reason, obtain a CFII and aren’t willing to teach, then you’re shooting yourself in the foot.

 

I can certainly "second" that comment.

 

If I had known all those years ago that being a Teacher was a pre-requisite for being an "employed" pilot, I never would have considered this as a career path! I would have just gotten my Private, and moved on with my life.

[palmfish]

I can certainly "second" that comment.

 

If I had known all those years ago that being a Teacher was a pre-requisite for being an "employed" pilot, I never would have considered this as a career path! I would have just gotten my Private, and moved on with my life.

 

Nobody said it was "a pre-requisite."

 

There are no absolutes. Like many have already said, it is your character, not your credentials, that lands you a job and a career. Sure, having a CFII, ATP, 2000 hours, or a dazzling smile opens doors, but none guarantee success.

[r22butters]

Nobody said it was "a pre-requisite."

 

I haven't had even a phone interview in almost three years. Everyone I talk to wants CFIs,...that sure sounds like a pre-requisite to me.

[280fxColorado]

http://www.faa.gov/data_research/aviation_data_statistics/civil_airmen_statistics/2010/

 

Lots of interesting stats broken up in many different combinations. Date, class, category, gender, age, etc.

 

For example:

Estimated active helicopter certificates (commercial)

1990 - 7,524

1991 - 7,469

1992 - 7,199

1993 - 6,684

1994 - 6,160

1995 - 4,762

1996 - 4,575

1997 - 4,360

1998 - 4,404

1999 - 4,820

2001 - 4,886

2002 - 4,777

2003 - 4,740

2004 - 5,082

2005 - 5,603

2006 - 6,297

2007 - 7,246

2008 - 8,695

2009 - 9,218

2010 - 9,347

 

Silver State founded, 1999

Silver State Bankruptcy, 2008... coincidence?

Helicopter CPLs nearly doubled in 10 years, 2001-2010. Relevant?

 

For comparison, active airplane certificates (commercial)

1990 - 128,628

1991 - 128,207

1992 - 126,797

1993 - 123,967

1994 - 119,915

1995 - 111,837

1996 - 107,853

1997 - 104,533

1998 - 101,643

1999 - 103,371

2001 - 100,325

2002 - 100,499

2003 - 99,322

2004 - 97,963

2005 - 96,163

2006 - 93,479

2007 - 91,282

2008 - 99,571

2009 - 100,752

2010 - 99,432

 

 

Food for thought...

 

[edit]

PS: found it interesting that there are only FOUR airmen holding only Commercial Helicopter/Glider. I am one. Anyone else? The ONLY less common combo is Recreational Gyroplane: 3.

Edited September 4, 2011 by 280fxColorado

[Spike]

Lots of interesting stats broken up in many different combinations. Date, class, category, gender, age, etc.

 

For example:

Estimated active helicopter certificates (commercial)

1990 - 7,524

1991 - 7,469

1992 - 7,199

1993 - 6,684

1994 - 6,160

1995 - 4,762

1996 - 4,575

1997 - 4,360

1998 - 4,404

1999 - 4,820

2001 - 4,886

2002 - 4,777

2003 - 4,740

2004 - 5,082

2005 - 5,603

2006 - 6,297

2007 - 7,246

2008 - 8,695

2009 - 9,218

2010 - 9,347

 

Silver State founded, 1999

Silver State Bankruptcy, 2008... coincidence?

Helicopter CPLs nearly doubled in 10 years, 2001-2010. Relevant?

 

Food for thought...

 

This statistic comes up form time-to-time and depending how you interpret the numbers, may not be an accurate assessment of the industry. The term “active” is misleading. It’s to my understanding, if a certificate is not surrendered or revoked it’s still considered “active”. Therefore, you could essentially have a number of dead people who are considered “active” or an even larger number who are retired and are not employed as working pilots. Basically, there is no way to calculate the true ratio of the number of employed commercial pilots and the number of unemployed “qualified” commercial pilots. And, it’s a known industry standard that simply obtaining a Commercial Pilot Certificate by no means equates to employable.

[Falko]

There are lots of EMS "Air-methods", Offshore "ERA" and tour operator positions to be filled.

The problems here seems like, its very hard to get your first CFII job due to the economy.

 

Once you get +1500hrs you are able to start flying utility, tours and once you have 2000+ you go ems offshore or wherever it takes you.

 

For those of you who have a hard time getting their first CFII job, I recommend entering the spray/crop dusting industry. Start driving fuel trucks / nursing-truck for them, get your CDL/HAZMAT endorsement and stop by crop dusting operators and talk to them. They will let you fly their machines if you stick around and work on the ground for a while. Sure, this may take longer to get the hours but at least you have a job in aviation and get to fly at least a little bit.

 

Falko