Is this a good time to start training as a helicopter pilot?

[r22butters]

There are lots of EMS "Air-methods", Offshore "ERA" and tour operator positions to be filled.

 

That seems hard to believe,...unless operators prefer empty seats over hiring lower-time pilots?

 

This industry's like a high-rise hotel. There are a number of empty rooms on the top floors, a few in the middle, but the lower floors are all booked up,...and the lobby is so jammed-packed that the front doors barely crack open.

[Spike]

This industry's like a high-rise hotel. There are a number of empty rooms on the top floors, a few in the middle, but the lower floors are all booked up,...and the lobby is so jammed-packed that the front doors barely crack open.

 

Good analogy…. However..

 

The people in the jam-packed lobby are all the folks who want to be helicopter pilots. The only doors available in the lobby are doors to stairwells which lead to the upper floors. Step one, in all of the stairwells, is obtaining a Medical Certificate/Student Pilot Certificate. Step two, is flight training and so-on-and-so-forth… The more steps you take, the higher up you move….

 

The single most significant thing to understand, there are no elevators or escalators…. It’s one step at a time….

Edited September 5, 2011 by Spike

[RkyMtnHI]

The single most significant thing to understand, there are no elevators or escalators…. It’s one step at a time….

 

 

very well said sir..

 

dp

[RkyMtnHI]

For those of you who have a hard time getting their first CFII job, I recommend entering the spray/crop dusting industry. Start driving fuel trucks / nursing-truck for them, get your CDL/HAZMAT endorsement and stop by crop dusting operators and talk to them. They will let you fly their machines if you stick around and work on the ground for a while. Sure, this may take longer to get the hours but at least you have a job in aviation and get to fly at least a little bit.

 

Falko

 

 

I tell folks this all the time Falko since you showed me that it's possible, if they knew how far you went so fast they might listen harder!! :-)

 

dp

[Wally]

That seems hard to believe,...unless operators prefer empty seats over hiring lower-time pilots?

 

This industry's like a high-rise hotel. There are a number of empty rooms on the top floors, a few in the middle, but the lower floors are all booked up,...and the lobby is so jammed-packed that the front doors barely crack open.

 

It's not that "Operators prefer empty seats over hiring lower-time pilots?". It's more that an operator will tolerate empty seats for a lot longer than you'd think before adjusting compensation (a permanent change) to attract the qualifications needed; or routinely hire thinner log books and incur the associated expenses. New hire to fully qualified and released to fly the line takes several months (3, 4, 5?), and even then the individual must have the attitude, basic knowledge and experience to be productive. EMS is not, repeat- NOT the place to acquire the basic knowledge and experience- it doesn't fly enough and it's not a situation where you can 'take a look' on a flight.

 

A new hire also should present as a stable prospect, likely to stick around long enough to recover those costs. All in all, the more experience (older) the better, although I have seen some really good younger guys in the biz, on the job...

[Zurban]

It's not that "Operators prefer empty seats over hiring lower-time pilots?". It's more that an operator will tolerate empty seats for a lot longer than you'd think before adjusting compensation (a permanent change) to attract the qualifications needed; or routinely hire thinner log books and incur the associated expenses. New hire to fully qualified and released to fly the line takes several months (3, 4, 5?), and even then the individual must have the attitude, basic knowledge and experience to be productive. EMS is not, repeat- NOT the place to acquire the basic knowledge and experience- it doesn't fly enough and it's not a situation where you can 'take a look' on a flight.

 

A new hire also should present as a stable prospect, likely to stick around long enough to recover those costs. All in all, the more experience (older) the better, although I have seen some really good younger guys in the biz, on the job...

 

 

Well said... thanks for reminding us this is still a corporate run industry!

[Logan]

Trans lift = loser.

[Trans Lift]

Trans lift = loser.

 

It's ok buddy, I didn't mean to offend you. You need a soda or something??

That attitude I mentioned shined right through in that comment by the way.

Edited September 8, 2011 by Trans Lift

[gary-mike]

Trans lift = loser.

 

Very mature!

[Fred0311]

It seems to me some people make these negative post to dissuade people from trying to limit their competition. A healthy respect for the state of the industry is important however some who does their homework and puts in the hard work will be successful in anything. It's all a matter of motivation and determination.

[SBuzzkill]

There are some people in this world who are not cut out for work. They feel that being qualified alone makes them deserve a job. They work to the level of those around them and don't try to excel, and when told by a superior that they need to step up their game they turn around and scoff at the idea. They take everything personally and can't shrug off constructive criticism. It's pretty much universal as you can find them in any career.

 

These are the people clocking in as late as possible and hanging around to clock out as soon as the second hand reaches 12. These are the people that spend all of their time looking for the best way to sham out of doing work and unload their responsibilities on someone else, usually under the guise of "seniority."

 

Back in the day when I was running the flight line my boss hired a kid that he interviewed and felt the kid had a lot of potential. The kid spoke of how he had a passion for aviation and how in his free time he flew remote control airplanes and wanted to be a pilot. These are usually good things when paired with someone who knows how to work, unfortunately this kid did not.

 

I started training him and by the third day I recommended we fire him. He felt that the work I was directing him to do was unfair as he didn't see me out there doing it. He was slow to get things done and spent most of his time hanging out in the FBO lounge talking with the front desk girl. When it came time to actually fire him he cried and couldn't figure out why it wasn't working out.

 

You see, it doesn't matter how much passion for flying you have if you can't grasp the basic principles of the working world. You (and also employers) can usually spot these people from a mile away - they can't get hired, they can't hold jobs, their work never satisfies them because "it's not what I expected it to be." They often try to drag others down with them and spend all their time in the break room talking about how bad the management is or how they don't have the right equipment. They don't see themselves as members of a team.

 

What I am getting at is some advice for anyone entering this industry. Don't be that guy, avoid that guy because he will suck you into his hole if you don't. He will do his best to convince you that you don't have it as good as you think you do. That guy has the potential to turn YOU into one of those people. Stay optimistic and always be willing to do crap work with a smile on your face but be smart and continuously search for opportunities to elevate yourself. If you show people that you are a hard worker who is a team player you will find that people you never expected will start pulling strings for you.

[IFLY]

http://www.faa.gov/d...tatistics/2010/

 

Food for thought...

 

[edit]

PS: found it interesting that there are only FOUR airmen holding only Commercial Helicopter/Glider. I am one. Anyone else? The ONLY less common combo is Recreational Gyroplane: 3.

 

I have Commercial Helicopter/Glider/Airplane

 

Jerry

[ADRidge]

Buzz, that's a great point that hasn't really been covered. Sure, you need the desire and the training, but you also need to know the meaning of the word "work".

 

Thanks, good stuff!

[r22butters]

If work was supposed to be all fun and games,...they wouldn't call it "work".

[palmfish]

There are some people in this world who are not cut out for work. They feel that being qualified alone makes them deserve a job. They work to the level of those around them and don't try to excel, and when told by a superior that they need to step up their game they turn around and scoff at the idea. They take everything personally and can't shrug off constructive criticism.

 

What I am getting at is some advice for anyone entering this industry. Don't be that guy, avoid that guy because he will suck you into his hole if you don't. He will do his best to convince you that you don't have it as good as you think you do. That guy has the potential to turn YOU into one of those people. Stay optimistic and always be willing to do crap work with a smile on your face but be smart and continuously search for opportunities to elevate yourself. If you show people that you are a hard worker who is a team player you will find that people you never expected will start pulling strings for you.

 

Good points Buzz. You see this in every industry and from people of all ages and backgrounds.

 

If I was king of the world, I would make "Employment 101" a mandatory course for all high school seniors to take (right alongside "money management 101" and "retirement investing 101"). This class would teach students about the little things like dressing appropriately, making eye contact, smiling often, taking ownership of responsibilities, and challenging oneself to identify and take advantage of opportunities to excel.

 

On the other hand, with enough "bell curve squatters" out there in the work force, that's simply an opportunity to rise above and stand out.

[Logan]

I love how some of you older guys talk like you know everything. The fact of the matter is, you don't know everything! The helicopter industry is a different world now. The cost of training is probably double compared to when you were starting out. And the new "magic number" for pilot in command time has tripled in the last 5 years. You can indirectly put me down all you want, but you know little about what it’s like trying to break in the industry right now. You can be optimistic and say its all about the individual. Well I know 10 guys that WOULD HAVE made exceptional pilots, but now they can't get a job and are in debt $90,000.00. I want to expose the truth to people that are making the mistake training to become a helicopter pilot.

Edited September 14, 2011 by Logan

[palmfish]

Forget about helicopter pilots.

 

The "truth" is that there are thousands upon thousands of people "making the mistake" of training to become lawyers, chemists, actors, psychologists, trombone players, real estate agents, radio broadcasters, ballerinas, and glass blowers.

 

Post-secondary education is a waste of time and money.

[Fred0311]

I hope that's sarcasm. Without a post secondary education what are you going to do beyond McDonald's?

[helistar]

I love how some of you older guys talk like you know everything. The fact of the matter is, you don't know everything! The helicopter industry is a different world now. The cost of training is probably double compared to when you were starting out. And the new "magic number" for pilot in command time has tripled in the last 5 years. You can indirectly put me down all you want, but you know little about what it’s like trying to break in the industry right now. You can be optimistic and say its all about the individual. Well I know 10 guys that WOULD HAVE made exceptional pilots, but now they can't get a job and are in debt $90,000.00. I want to expose the truth to people that are making the mistake training to become a helicopter pilot.

 

The truth is none of the older guys have come on this board claiming to know everything. They do offer valuable advice and whether you choose to follow any or all of that advice is a decision you must make based on your own situation or goals... The major problem today, is young people think they know everything, refusing to listen and learn from those with more experience and want to blame others for their lack of effort and failure...

 

The fact is these older and wiser pilots have the experience and knowledge to help you succeed... After all they're currently sitting in the very seat you wish to occupy, so they must know something you don't...

[apiaguy]

ahhh logan.. you've made me laugh.

 

I started flying helicopters in 1992. I took a demo flight with Hiser Helicopters in Corona, CA. The cost at the time for complete training (pre-SFAR) was going to be $26000. Of course I didn't have that money and my parents said they wouldn't co-sign. Thank goodness.

 

The people who have taken loans to enter this career are indeed in trouble and that is about the end of the truth of your statement.

 

Funny thing.... in 1993 Hiser shut their doors and took everyones money... ha ha... sound familiar.

 

I spent my own money to fly when I could.... I completed my A&P... and my IA... I bought a helicopter project that I restored... I have more helicopters in my hangar that I can personally fly. Make your own dream.

[Wally]

I love how some of you older guys talk like you know everything. The fact of the matter is, you don't know everything! The helicopter industry is a different world now. The cost of training is probably double compared to when you were starting out. And the new "magic number" for pilot in command time has tripled in the last 5 years. You can indirectly put me down all you want, but you know little about what it’s like trying to break in the industry right now. You can be optimistic and say its all about the individual. Well I know 10 guys that WOULD HAVE made exceptional pilots, but now they can't get a job and are in debt $90,000.00. I want to expose the truth to people that are making the mistake training to become a helicopter pilot.

 

Know what, buddy-ro? The cost of failure out of flight school can be a lot higher than what you're P&M-ing about- a fair few of my peers were killed within their first 1000 hours, died of personally "not knowing better" and other mischances.

Luck was, is, and always will be required in this profession. To be "lucky", you have to be qualified. You are, and it's my fault you're not lucky? I didn't come to your house and blow smoke up your skirt nor did anybody else here. An opinion was requested and given. "Xin lỗi, G.I.!" translates as "sucks to be you". Get a grip.

 

A couple of days later... I apologize for losing my cool. "Logan" doesn't know what he doesn't know and he can't help that. It seems an invariable trait of youth (immature personalities?) to somehow equate a little immediate, personal experience as more important and meaningful than a lot of experience over the span of years by somebody else.

 

I remember when I had the comfort of knowing better than anybody, even if I never knew it all.

Edited September 18, 2011 by Wally

[rollthbns]

There are some people in this world who are not cut out for work. They feel that being qualified alone makes them deserve a job. They work to the level of those around them and don't try to excel, and when told by a superior that they need to step up their game they turn around and scoff at the idea. They take everything personally and can't shrug off constructive criticism. It's pretty much universal as you can find them in any career.

 

These are the people clocking in as late as possible and hanging around to clock out as soon as the second hand reaches 12. These are the people that spend all of their time looking for the best way to sham out of doing work and unload their responsibilities on someone else, usually under the guise of "seniority."

 

I love this post because it states the truth. Work ethic and humility are the cornerstones of "making it" in my opinion. This becomes even more true as you progress into other facets of the industry, such as a managing pilot position for example.

 

 

I love how some of you older guys talk like you know everything. The fact of the matter is, you don't know everything! The helicopter industry is a different world now. The cost of training is probably double compared to when you were starting out. And the new "magic number" for pilot in command time has tripled in the last 5 years. You can indirectly put me down all you want, but you know little about what it’s like trying to break in the industry right now. You can be optimistic and say its all about the individual. Well I know 10 guys that WOULD HAVE made exceptional pilots, but now they can't get a job and are in debt $90,000.00. I want to expose the truth to people that are making the mistake training to become a helicopter pilot.

 

Im old and knowing everything is not even a possibility. I have been flying for almost five years now, and thankfully I am gainfully employed as a pilot. My particular magic number was 1,100 hours, which I would argue is not tripled from any of the requirements I have ever heard about. My journey from private pilot candidate to ATP was pretty much the way it was explained to me when I was researching flight schools. Get your ratings, secure an instructor position, serve your prospective pilots (students) well, and your log book numbers would eventually find their way onto a resume. That resume would find its way into the hands of someone who was willing to take a chance on you and the career continues. Granted, it takes persistence and a definite plan of action to get noticed, but if I can do it, then ANYONE can do it for sure.

 

Will everyone do it? Nope. Many will decide to be successful at other ventures for a variety of reasons. In my opinion, the TRUTH about breaking into the helicopter industry has not changed much since I began training. Are there ups and downs in the jobs available? Sure! Do the minimums change in response to supply and demand? Sure! If the dream is big enough, the obstacles do not matter.

 

To summarize, dont confuse your experience with the facts. If you want to fly helicopters, do what it takes to land your first job. Many people have gone before you. and people are doing it today. Attend Heli-Success and get first hand information on what it takes directly from successful professionals in the industry. Recharge your motivation, reset your plan, and go out and do it. You CAN make it!

[Fred0311]

I'd like to express my gratitude to the "old guys" who offer valuable advice. Statements calling them know it alls are ignorant. I'm pursuing this as a career because flying is a passion, and I'm applying the mental attitude I learned in the military of a no fail mission, where the consequences of failure are so severe you accomplish the mission regardless of cost. Achieving a career goal may not be as important as something like that but my point is if its important enough to you, you will make it happen. Otherwise you'll complain about your failure and make rationalizations of why you didn't make it. And yes there are problems that cant be conquered but like medical issues but thats not most of the gripes on here. But personally I'm glad for those who aren't willing to put in the work because I am coming for the spot they would have taken.

[Spike]

Everything is relative. Do I know everything? No. Never claimed I did. If I did, I’d be God, which I’m not. However, it's safe to say, I know plenty enough compared to any beginner in this business….

 

The helicopter world hasn’t changed. It’s ALWAYS been this way. The thing is, when the economic bubble was expanding, it created a false sense of reality for many industries and the helicopter business was not immune. Even so, when the bubble burst, it simply corrected the “false sense of reality”. Additionally, the bubble is where SSH sold their bag of goods ending with lots of angry disillusioned pilots who also had a false sense of reality but have never since been corrected....

 

The price for training has increased over the years but what hasn’t? Milk, gas, rent, tax’s, insurance, collage, you name it, it’s increased. Why should flight training be any different?

 

Believing there is a “magic number” is only a set up for disappointment. Building time is just that, building time. Wasting time is hoping to achieve the “magic number”….

 

Breaking into this industry has ALWAYS been difficult. Contrary to other opinions, I know exactly how hard it is. Comparatively speaking, it’s now much easier then to break into this business prior to the development of the R22. Nevertheless, listening to a greenhorn’s opinion regarding the difficulties of this business is like getting financial advice from a homeless person…

 

There are people in the world who spend the cash for the training, gain the required knowledge and are deemed “good sticks” who’ll never make it in this business. Why? Because of their less then desirable attitudes. The fact is, there are folks who overpaid for their training, have marginal knowledge and can basically fly the helicopter that excel in this business just because of their positive attitudes. A positive attitude is a definite requirement in this business…. Poor attitudes are obvious... Obviously...

 

While this thread has degraded to slinging crapola, it’s painfully clear. Most that’ve made it in this business are basically content with their decision to become a professional helicopter pilot. Those who are struggling simply have not progressed to the point of contentment, YET, which everyone does at one time or another no matter what business you’re in….

 

The assumption is; people who seek advice here on VR are intelligent adults who are capable of making decisions on their own. Whether they choose to proceed or not is up to them. The truth is; there is nothing to expose, other then, never get a loan to learn to fly….

Edited September 16, 2011 by Spike

[r22butters]

...But personally I'm glad for those who aren't willing to put in the work because I am coming for the spot they would have taken.

 

You can have my spot. If an employer is hesitant, just tell them, Butters said it was ok.