DS_HMMR Posted September 20, 2011 Report Share Posted September 20, 2011 (edited) - Edited May 28, 2012 by DS_HMMR 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helistar Posted September 20, 2011 Report Share Posted September 20, 2011 Once again nice video... Awesome training area... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DS_HMMR Posted September 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 20, 2011 (edited) - Edited May 28, 2012 by DS_HMMR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goldy Posted September 21, 2011 Report Share Posted September 21, 2011 Great shots, love it when you land onto the camera...but just exactly what are you training for? This is definitely not private cert stuff. Lots of opportunities to stick a skid and roll over. Looks like fun though, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DS_HMMR Posted September 21, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 21, 2011 (edited) - Edited May 28, 2012 by DS_HMMR 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbo2181 Posted September 21, 2011 Report Share Posted September 21, 2011 ...and money. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goldy Posted September 22, 2011 Report Share Posted September 22, 2011 The training is simply to become "better". Every week brings a new opportunity, a new scenario (a tighter confined), or a new variable on an old scenario. (a high DA pinnacle with a 20+knot updraft).  Opportunities. I certainly could stick a skid and roll over. I could also have a hot start and blow the turbine before leaving the cart. That's exactly why I am training: to acquire and maintain a level of skill that will decrease the risk of any accident to its absolute minimum; and manage any emergency to bring it to its best possible conclusion. That's my reasoning, those are my goals.   Or maybe I just have too much free time on my hands.  Hey no complaint about training! I could tell in that one confined space landing even the instructor was looking back to see where the tail was...pretty tight spot! No doubt you will be better for it, 150 pounds coming onto and off of a skid isnt easy either! We're all just jealous anyway..... Fly safe, Goldy 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikemv Posted September 22, 2011 Report Share Posted September 22, 2011 "That's exactly why I am training: to acquire and maintain a level of skill that will decrease the risk of any accident to its absolute minimum; and manage any emergency to bring it to its best possible conclusion. That's my reasoning, those are my goals." DS, having made the above statement can you explain your feelings on how 3 minutes of low level canyon carving/flight decrease the risks of any accident? Did you Identify Hazards, Assess the Risks & Manage the Risks associated with this portion of the flight? (3Ps of SRM). Did you discuss, plan for EPs during this segment of the flight? You probably did an over flight/recon of the canyon area considering hazards and noting terrain as poor for forced landings. You were also probably familiar with the area from flying it previously or with a pilot that was familiar with the area. You were probably aware of the wind, DA and performance margins of the helo. Can you tell the readers of this post how your pre-flight planning assured safety during this flying/training? I am a proponent of training well beyond the testing required in various PTSs for Certification of pilots. The training you practiced for loading and unloading of external pax, slopes and confined areas was great! What ground training was done prior to the flight. Please share your learning experience with us. Initial training leaves a lot to be desired and advanced training for helicopter operations or recurrent training for these operations is great. Do not take my questions/comments as negative but rather a heads up for all here to consider using ADM/SRM for Risk Management and safe operations. Some of my comments here should be noted by inexperienced pilots and note that this flight was completed safely because hazards were identified, risks were assessed and managed and nothing unexpected happened! If we only rely on luck to get the flight completed then we have not used good ADM/SRM!  Fly safe, Mike 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DS_HMMR Posted September 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 22, 2011 (edited) - Edited May 28, 2012 by DS_HMMR 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikemv Posted September 22, 2011 Report Share Posted September 22, 2011 DS, Thanks for a great reply. I hope that all the pilots reading your reply realize what went into making the flight seen in the video a safe one! Many inexperienced pilots want to do "Cool Stuff" and do not apply all of the planning and considerations that you did. Thanks, Mike 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DS_HMMR Posted September 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 22, 2011 (edited) - Edited May 28, 2012 by DS_HMMR 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falko Posted September 23, 2011 Report Share Posted September 23, 2011 flying low level is safe ? That's news to me. it's is lots of fun and I did it too but I excepted the risk.sure, planning the route to the T's will make it safer but by the end of the day it's not safe. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helonorth Posted September 23, 2011 Report Share Posted September 23, 2011 Gotta agree with Falko. You can make something less dangerous, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's safe. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DS_HMMR Posted September 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2011 (edited) - Edited May 28, 2012 by DS_HMMR 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gary-mike Posted September 23, 2011 Report Share Posted September 23, 2011 (edited) flying low level is safe ? That's news to me. it's is lots of fun and I did it too but I excepted the risk.sure, planning the route to the T's will make it safer but by the end of the day it's not safe. If you look at it that way about the only way to stay "safe" is to stay in bed in your bomb shelter, and even that has some health risks. Every time you land or take off you are flying low, and every time you start a helicopter there are risks. Isn't flying low one of the reasons and benefits of flying a helicopter? Hell no matter what I wear, how I ride, or what route I take riding my motorcycle will never be an activity that has no risk involved. Doesn't mean I am going to sell my bike and live in a padded vault. That is why we use ORM (Operational Risk Management) and not total risk avoidance. Because at the end of the day almost every activity can be percieved as "not safe". Edited September 23, 2011 by gary-mike 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helonorth Posted September 23, 2011 Report Share Posted September 23, 2011 I don't think anyone believes flying is "safe". Mistakes can cost you your life. You can come to grief even if you do everything right. Flying low level at high speeds over rough terrain leaves you with no plan B if if you make one or if the engine quits. Since I do this for a living, I try to do everything I can to reduce those risks, not increase them. I do not see much benefit to putting myself into that kind of situation. Sooner or later, if you do it long enough, you will crash while flying low level. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike Posted September 23, 2011 Report Share Posted September 23, 2011 DS In your reply to others, you mention the purpose of the flight was training. What are you training for exactly?  BTW, helicopters are as safe as the people operating them…… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trans Lift Posted September 23, 2011 Report Share Posted September 23, 2011 (edited) I think you meant to write "expected", so yeah, does anybody here believe flying helicopters is EVER truly "safe"? Â I think he meant to write "accepted". My current job involves flying even lower than you did in those videos. Constantly over and back across a cranberry bog at 50-70kts. I pick up a load and fly back with it, sometimes 350 times a day. As people said, there is only so much you can do to make it as safe as you can, but there will still be surprises every now and again. Having the experience behind you is what helps you deal with the surprises when they happen. Edited September 23, 2011 by Trans Lift Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gary-mike Posted September 23, 2011 Report Share Posted September 23, 2011 It is true that probably 99% of all accidents happen at low level and 100% end there.  DS_HMMR said that the video was of him training in an attempt to make him a safer pilot. He also said that there was a portion of the video that was him running low level through the canyons. (separate from the training part the way I under stood it) I don't think he was trying to say that running low level through the canyons was making him "safer". He did respond to mikemv though stating that he did everthing he could think of (besides not doing it at all) to minimize the risk. Funny I didn't see a big fuss over the same flight posted in the "low level heaven" thread. Flying low and fast isn't safe, If you don't want to do it then don't. Fact is people are going to, and I aplaud those that pointed out ways to minimize the risk while doing it. DS_HMMR great videos, keep em coming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spil Posted September 23, 2011 Report Share Posted September 23, 2011 Great video work! Cool helicopter ... but watch out for wires! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DS_HMMR Posted September 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2011 (edited) - Edited May 28, 2012 by DS_HMMR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falko Posted September 23, 2011 Report Share Posted September 23, 2011 ok, just to make gary mike feel better. yes, I do live in a bomb shelter, yes iam in bed all day long, yes, it's not healthy staying in bed all day long. and whenever I get a flight request I have the medcrew push my bed out of my atomic bomb shleter into the elevator to bring me up to the 10th floor. Once iam up there I have them push me out to the rooftop heliplatform , while iam calling my wife and tell her iam gonna die very shortly since iam about to fly,to determ that we perfect vfr conditions and that there is a chance that there are birds flying within the next 200nm around the helicopter. Just knowing that there are birds in the air scares the hell out of me so I tell my crew, taking this flight would be suicidal. Shortly after that they return me to my bunker so I can relax and recover from my near death experience. also whatever emergency I encounter, I always autorotate so I get on the ground asap. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gary-mike Posted September 23, 2011 Report Share Posted September 23, 2011 I feel fine Falko, even better after reading that. Glad to see there are a few people with a sense of humor out there. Thanks for the laugh and your concern for my feelings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
500F Posted September 27, 2011 Report Share Posted September 27, 2011 I think you meant to write "expected", so yeah, does anybody here believe flying helicopters is EVER truly "safe"? Its about risk management, and everybody has a tolerance level based on a number of factors. If anyone read any of my comments and thought that I had found a way to make Helicopters safe, I apologize for the miscommunication. I guess I should take the time now to provide the Following statement: Helicopters are never safe (just like life). But, I feel I should add: if you see absolutely NO danger in anything you do, then I believe your doctor finally got your dosage right.   Great answer,Life is never safe. 3000 people get killed in the US alone every year crossing the street. And while I agree flying low, expecially canyon flying at high speeds has its risks. Some huge ones if its not reconnoitered properly, and some risks that remain even if it is. However, the question becomes, are those risks acceptable. When there are passengers invovlved I am staunchly against such behavior. When the aircraft involved is somone elses it is their risk assessment that should dictate what risk is acceptable. However, in this case, where there aree no passengers the only risk is to DS himself, his aircraft, and arguably, the PR of our industry.  That being said,DS seems to have done a proper risk assessment, and preflight plan which brings the rish to what he considers to be an acceptable level.  I, for one do believe that experience may be tapped in an an emergency situation and just may save his butt. Just dont give the endustry a bad rap.  happy flyin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helonorth Posted September 27, 2011 Report Share Posted September 27, 2011 I have no idea what kind of emergency flying low level at high speed would help you with, but that's just me. Seems more like an emergency creator! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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