Unusual candidate, not a "What are my chances thread"

[MichaelRyanSD]

Hi, I figured I should take the time to post on here a little about myself and what I am trying to accomplish, actually more of how I am trying to accomplish it, why I'm here as a FNG is pretty obvious.

 

A little generic info about myself in regards to application credentials

 

4 year degree 3.1 GPA

About 60 FW hours and a PPL (20 of the hours are IFR)

126 GT score and AFQT 92nd percentile (I literally did not crack one book for this test as I did not know I would be taking it on the physical day)

 

I have LOR's from

My flight instructor - Retired 0-6 Navy Squadron CO

My ground school instructor - Retired 0-5 Helo Pilot

A guy I was on a sailing team with for 2 years - Happens to be an O-3 Army Aviator in Vietnam, flying for the local PD ever since.

A professor from my college - Got the highest grade in her class and was the TA for 2-3 years afterwards (That was the first and only time I ever got the highest grade)

My best friend who is an O-3 in the Navy - I figured this would be good for a more personal LOR

 

 

Now with all that said, you would probably say "so far so good, next step is applying"

Well here is the bad, in 2009 I went to Marine OCS and was dropped for leadership, no I won't make excuses, but in my defense what I've come to realize is all three other branches have a very low drop percentage (the weeding out process happens during application). Whereas in the Marines, it is much more weeding out at OCS rather then the application process. So I have hit some resistance because the recruiters are pretty adamant about me enlisting to "exonerate" myself. Up until this I have never failed at anything, everything had always come easy to me, so I am hoping to look at it as the turning point in my life where I find out what I am made of. To be clear though I was given the option to re-apply to Marine OCS.

 

In regards to enlisting, I have no problem doing it, actually I was thinking at the very worst, I would do my service and use the GI bill for civilian flight school. I won't make false promises and say how great I am and I am going to be the next General Einsenhower, but I do know one thing, if I am picked up for flight, I know for certain, that I will be doing it for the next 40 years God and Army willing...

 

With that I appreciate all your comments and feedback, but do have a few questions if you could answer them.

 

Is there any real advantage to enlisting in an aviation field other then maybe putting me in more closer contact with Army aviators?

 

Are enlisted applicants fundamentally different than civilian, what I mean is, it seems the typical civilian applicant is 2-4 years of college, some flight time, good LOR's, etc. What is the general profile of an enlisted applicant?

 

How long do I have to stay at my unit before I could apply to WOFT? Could I finish AIT, go to my unit, then literally the next week start my application process without fear or reprisal of pissing anyone off?

 

My overall hesitation with enlisting is could it somehow hinder my chances, I'm fine with enlisting not helping them, but don't want to dig a bigger hole then the one I am in. I have done extensive research online at it seems that enlisted and civilian applicants do no compete against one another and that the general make-up is of total accepted applicants is about 60/40 enlisted/civilian. Does this sound correct?

 

Thank you all again...

 

Disclaimer: I did post this on another site, it seemed marginally active, I thought I might get more opinions here.

[gary-mike]

Normally this site is very active however, it has been pretty dead lately. Guess there is lots of flying to get done before winter. Maybe preparation for Heli-success is part of it too.

 

I don't have any experience to answer your questions. I did talk to a former Army WO that is now flying life flight. He said that when he sat on boards the majority of aplicants hired were civilian, and that the only prior service aplicant they hired was a former AF guy. That being said, he was very busy trying to get maintenance out to fix his heli so he could get off the mountain and I never got details about how many boards he had been on or how long ago it was.

 

Sorry I can't help you more, be patient this is one of the best places to get the info you seek.

[akscott60]

I know someone who had problems with ROTC in college. He applied to the WOFT program, was a two time non select, then went OCS and branched aviation.

 

Where the is a will, there is a way. If you were given the opportunity to reapply, then I figure you would have a chance. You need to get a good recruiter that is willing to spend time with you making the packet.

 

I do not know the enlisted side of thing as I am a street to seater.

 

Good luck.

[Fighter13]

Hi, I figured I should take the time to post on here a little about myself and what I am trying to accomplish, actually more of how I am trying to accomplish it, why I'm here as a FNG is pretty obvious.

 

A little generic info about myself in regards to application credentials

 

4 year degree 3.1 GPA

About 60 FW hours and a PPL (20 of the hours are IFR)

126 GT score and AFQT 92nd percentile (I literally did not crack one book for this test as I did not know I would be taking it on the physical day)

 

I have LOR's from

My flight instructor - Retired 0-6 Navy Squadron CO

My ground school instructor - Retired 0-5 Helo Pilot

A guy I was on a sailing team with for 2 years - Happens to be an O-3 Army Aviator in Vietnam, flying for the local PD ever since.

A professor from my college - Got the highest grade in her class and was the TA for 2-3 years afterwards (That was the first and only time I ever got the highest grade)

My best friend who is an O-3 in the Navy - I figured this would be good for a more personal LOR

 

 

Now with all that said, you would probably say "so far so good, next step is applying"

Well here is the bad, in 2009 I went to Marine OCS and was dropped for leadership, no I won't make excuses, but in my defense what I've come to realize is all three other branches have a very low drop percentage (the weeding out process happens during application). Whereas in the Marines, it is much more weeding out at OCS rather then the application process. So I have hit some resistance because the recruiters are pretty adamant about me enlisting to "exonerate" myself. Up until this I have never failed at anything, everything had always come easy to me, so I am hoping to look at it as the turning point in my life where I find out what I am made of. To be clear though I was given the option to re-apply to Marine OCS.

 

In regards to enlisting, I have no problem doing it, actually I was thinking at the very worst, I would do my service and use the GI bill for civilian flight school. I won't make false promises and say how great I am and I am going to be the next General Einsenhower, but I do know one thing, if I am picked up for flight, I know for certain, that I will be doing it for the next 40 years God and Army willing...

 

With that I appreciate all your comments and feedback, but do have a few questions if you could answer them.

 

Is there any real advantage to enlisting in an aviation field other then maybe putting me in more closer contact with Army aviators?

 

Are enlisted applicants fundamentally different than civilian, what I mean is, it seems the typical civilian applicant is 2-4 years of college, some flight time, good LOR's, etc. What is the general profile of an enlisted applicant?

 

How long do I have to stay at my unit before I could apply to WOFT? Could I finish AIT, go to my unit, then literally the next week start my application process without fear or reprisal of pissing anyone off?

 

My overall hesitation with enlisting is could it somehow hinder my chances, I'm fine with enlisting not helping them, but don't want to dig a bigger hole then the one I am in. I have done extensive research online at it seems that enlisted and civilian applicants do no compete against one another and that the general make-up is of total accepted applicants is about 60/40 enlisted/civilian. Does this sound correct?

 

Thank you all again...

 

Disclaimer: I did post this on another site, it seemed marginally active, I thought I might get more opinions here.

 

 

Are you trying to go active duty or NG? I know NG, you can do the majority of the selection process as a civilian, so if you wanted to go the NG route, my guidance would be to take the AFAST and get the flight physical to see if you even qualify...then touch base with the aviation unit you'd be going to meet with the company commander to weigh options...

[d10]

Is there any real advantage to enlisting in an aviation field other then maybe putting me in more closer contact with Army aviators?

 

No, but that's a big advantage. The warrant officer recruiting website states "It is recommended, but not required, that applicants have a letter of recommendation from an Army Aviator in the rank of CW3 to CW5 or Major and above." I don't know anyone who disregarded that recommendation. If you enlist in an aviation MOS, you'll be in a unit with a lot of those guys, working closely with some of them, so not only will it be easier to get a recommendation, the recommendation you do get is likely to be more personal (and therefore much, much better) than a recommendation you would get coming from outside the unit and hoping to impress a guy with the 15 minutes he might give you. I know plenty of guys who did it the latter way, so it's possible, but I can't imagine it was easy for them.

 

Are enlisted applicants fundamentally different than civilian, what I mean is, it seems the typical civilian applicant is 2-4 years of college, some flight time, good LOR's, etc. What is the general profile of an enlisted applicant?

 

Most will have little to no college and no flight time, so you have an advantage there, particularly with the college (the flight time won't earn you much).

 

How long do I have to stay at my unit before I could apply to WOFT? Could I finish AIT, go to my unit, then literally the next week start my application process without fear or reprisal of pissing anyone off?

 

Yes, you can start right away. There are a lot of guys who enlist with the intent to drop a WOFT application right away. Some never realized there was a civilian application option, others wanted to start off as an E-1 for personal reasons, but whatever the reason you won't surprise anyone, especially if you choose an aviation MOS. Some guys might be pissed but those are just bad leaders who would be pissed no matter when you apply. As long as you're still getting your work done most will be supportive.

 

My overall hesitation with enlisting is could it somehow hinder my chances, I'm fine with enlisting not helping them, but don't want to dig a bigger hole then the one I am in. I have done extensive research online at it seems that enlisted and civilian applicants do no compete against one another and that the general make-up is of total accepted applicants is about 60/40 enlisted/civilian. Does this sound correct?

 

I don't know how they choose how many enlisted vs civilian applicants they accept, although it is a completely different boarding process. I will say this, the acceptance rate for enlisted to WOFT applicants right now is very, very tight. I just looked up the September board results and I count 178 names who applied. Only 32 were accepted. If you think you're in that top 18% and you wouldn't be too upset serving out your enlistment if you're wrong, go for it.

 

I would probably try the civilian application first, especially since it sounds like you've got a lot of it done already. I don't think the drop from OCS will hurt you much. In fact they might not even notice it. They put you through a live interview and they're likely to form their impressions of your leadership potential there.

[JMcDonald]

My bunk mate at basic washed out of Marine OCS also. He is now here with me at WOCS. Just don't even worry about it.