I hate to be this guy but...

[Nolapilot89]

With the recent announcement by our president to be out of Iraq by Jan 1st, are we about to face another Vietnam like influx of pilots? Keep in mind, I wasn't alive around this era, and no where even close to it lol....

 

I looked around a bit to see if anyone had mentioned this yet, but haven't seen it. And the fact that it hasn't been mentioned yet makes me think its not a big deal and I'm over thinking it.

[gary-mike]

Just my thoughts,

 

With the economy in it's current state, retention in the military is at an all time high. That and I think that most military pilots are smart enough look at the job market before bailing, which is not great either. The more battles we pull out of, the slower the Ops tempo is and the more time military members get to stay home with thier families so they will be more inclined to stay active. Trust me, the benefits and steady/stable paycheck are hard to walk away from, especially right now. Hopefully I am not just being overly optimistic.

[r22butters]

I've asked this question of several, more experienced, pilots over the years. The consensus seems to be that most of them are staying in longer.

 

However, their will always be plenty of ex-military pilots crossing over!

[Rogue]

Last I knew the commitment ( per a WO that I know so yes... second hand knowledge ) Active Duty Warrant Officer in the Army is a 10 year commitment. Only someone who was offered an early retirement or medical retirement would leave being halfway to retirement !!!

[akscott60]

We Warrants owe six years from the day we get winged. As for retention, its high. Outside job market isnt what it could be.

[NorCalHeliKid]

What does the end of Iraq have to do with Army aviators? The most of the pilots deployed now are in AFG, so I would say that it has no impact. The budget ....thats a whole other issue.

[Fred0311]

The thing that terrified me is if they come after the 911 gi bill cause of the budget. Even if I get through on it. That would dry up students for all the cfi's.

[Sonic04GT]

If I was a pilot in the military there's no way I'd be getting out right now. I loved getting paid after we returned from Iraq. We didn't do crap! Spent a lot of time at the barracks playing XBOX for months during the "stabilization" period post-deployment. I'm sure they'll be flying and training, while collecting a nice paycheck with great healthcare. It'd be moronic to get out.

 

I kind of wish I had stayed in, but if I did I wouldn't be flying helicopters any time soon so I'm happy for that. Start school in January

[Logan]

You have nothing to worry about my friend. Military pilots aren't that great at flying in the civilian world. When you are a warrant officer you are LUCKY to get 200 flight hours a year (which includes start-up and shutdown). When they are deployed that are flying 400-500 hours a year. During the 6 year commitment of a warrant, they are lucky to walk with 1500-2000 hours. Ends up being around 8 years total after going thru boot camps and warrant officer candidate school.

 

I speak from experience....

 

military pilots are less likely to get civilian helicopter jobs because of there stiff personalities. The tour companies sway away from ex military! The only jobs ex military pilots are likely to get are medivac jobs.

 

I have flown with over 50 different warrant officers in an R22/R44 and they can't even hold a hover. Most of them will be staying in and collecting their steady paycheck.

[Rogue]

 

military pilots are less likely to get civilian helicopter jobs because of there stiff personalities. The tour companies sway away from ex military! The only jobs ex military pilots are likely to get are medivac jobs.

 

I have flown with over 50 different warrant officers in an R22/R44 and they can't even hold a hover. Most of them will be staying in and collecting their steady paycheck.

 

Not only is this unwarranted statement completely absent of factual information it also implies that as instructor you are not even capable of teaching experienced operators of complex aircraft how to fly a very simple machine. That is not something I would brag upon personally but... hey to each and all their own.

[Wally]

You have nothing to worry about my friend. Military pilots aren't that great at flying in the civilian world. When you are a warrant officer you are LUCKY to get 200 flight hours a year (which includes start-up and shutdown). When they are deployed that are flying 400-500 hours a year. During the 6 year commitment of a warrant, they are lucky to walk with 1500-2000 hours. Ends up being around 8 years total after going thru boot camps and warrant officer candidate school.

 

I speak from experience....

 

military pilots are less likely to get civilian helicopter jobs because of there stiff personalities. The tour companies sway away from ex military! The only jobs ex military pilots are likely to get are medivac jobs.

 

I have flown with over 50 different warrant officers in an R22/R44 and they can't even hold a hover. Most of them will be staying in and collecting their steady paycheck.

 

And I want to be able to hover a Robbie to your satisfaction because...???

 

In 43 years of flying, I've flown with military and civilian pilots from around the world and can't tell the difference. Well, except Marguerite, who was obviously never in anybody's military...

 

The Iraq stand-down or whatever it's called only makes the military more attractive, hopefully fewer rotations. Some pilots will feel kinda pointless when it all stops, a peace-time military has a lot in common with Chinese fire departments. But, hey- there's always Africa!

[Eggbeater]

I speak from experience....

 

I have flown with over 50 different warrant officers in an R22/R44 and they can't even hold a hover. Most of them will be staying in and collecting their steady paycheck.

 

What experience is that? Did you fly in the military?

 

And do you understand why an attitude like the one you just displayed reflects poorly on all of us civilian pilots?

[palmfish]

If I was a pilot in the military there's no way I'd be getting out right now. I loved getting paid after we returned from Iraq. We didn't do crap! Spent a lot of time at the barracks playing XBOX for months during the "stabilization" period post-deployment. I'm sure they'll be flying and training, while collecting a nice paycheck with great healthcare. It'd be moronic to get out.

 

I kind of wish I had stayed in, but if I did I wouldn't be flying helicopters any time soon so I'm happy for that. Start school in January

 

While you were playing XBox at the barracks, the NCO's and officers were at the unit working to make sure you were being taken care of.

[Death2Daleks]

While you were playing XBox at the barracks, the NCO's and officers were at the unit working to make sure you were being taken care of.

This made me laugh...

 

Especially when 3 birds are down due to maintenance, the squadron has an inspection in a week, and the pilots are off playing golf

 

The time just after a deployment is a time of rest for pretty much everyone.

[akscott60]

What experience is that? Did you fly in the military?

 

And do you understand why an attitude like the one you just displayed reflects poorly on all of us civilian pilots?

 

He clearly does not. I am both a civilian flight instructor, and a military aviator. People like this are why the public hates pilots.

 

Why the hell would I care about hovering the mighty R22 to his satisfaction? I understand its a pure, light, unstable little thing, but he should consider many of us fly aircraft with more systems than his car, house, and aircraft have, combined. All while under NVGs and getting shot at.

 

Sheesh

[NorCalHeliKid]

You have nothing to worry about my friend. Military pilots aren't that great at flying in the civilian world. When you are a warrant officer you are LUCKY to get 200 flight hours a year (which includes start-up and shutdown). When they are deployed that are flying 400-500 hours a year. During the 6 year commitment of a warrant, they are lucky to walk with 1500-2000 hours. Ends up being around 8 years total after going thru boot camps and warrant officer candidate school.

 

I speak from experience....

 

military pilots are less likely to get civilian helicopter jobs because of there stiff personalities. The tour companies sway away from ex military! The only jobs ex military pilots are likely to get are medivac jobs.

 

I have flown with over 50 different warrant officers in an R22/R44 and they can't even hold a hover. Most of them will be staying in and collecting their steady paycheck.

 

Wow guy, let me speak from actual experience in both civilian and military applications. The R22 and R44 require more control acclamation and control touch muscle training than something like a UH-60 after you have been in an aircraft with hydraulic boost, SAS, FPS, trim hold and bunch of other systems that would make your mind explode compared to a Robbie. Someone as experienced as your self should know that most G5 pilots have trouble trying to fly a Cessna 152 after 10 years in a complex Jet. You are comparing apples to oranges there. . If we put you in a 60 and sent you out for some external load would all your time in an R22 come into play? Again, not comparable. You punch racetracks in the sky, theres no actual mission besides getting a 1.2 and a paycheck. Ive been to both sides and I just want to make it clear that your post was uneducated at best. You have no clue what military pilots go through and what they do every day.

[Logan]

i stand corrected.

[Death2Daleks]

The R22 and R44 require more control acclamation and control touch muscle training than something like a UH-60 after you have been in an aircraft with hydraulic boost, SAS, FPS, trim hold

 

Robbies don't have trim hold?

 

Helo flight school may end up more difficult than I thought

[RagMan]

I think it's pretty clear to say that the Aviators in the Military know their job extremely well, just as the Aviators here in the civilian side know their side of flying. Would an Army aviator coming out of the military be able to fly a 100' line vertical reference to a 3x3' target area on the ground? Most likely no. Would a civilian be able to jump in an H-60 and conduct a combat insertion at night, under goggles at 8,000feet with 25% illumination with the threat of being shot down by an RPG? Again, most likely no.

 

But, with time and training, either aviator could accomplish the other task/operation proficiently. We all have our own areas in which we are technically proficient and knowledgeable in. In order to conduct risky and valuable operations, we as aviators must go through extensive training in order to make us proficient at certain tasks we conduct on a daily basis. There's no better side here, I think we can agree on that.

[Spike]

Tracking the original post….

IMO, the initial downturn will have little effect on the civilian market. Furthermore, the number of active pilots today is no where near the numbers of the Viet Nam era. What will probably happen is; they’ll trickle in as usual. And, once discharged, ex-mil pilots rarely slide right into the seats so thinking all of the sudden we’ll see jobs dry up is unrealistic. Plus, most reserve pilots are already employed.

Lastly, let’s think about this realistically. Would you, as an Army/Navy/Marine helicopter pilot flying military hardware with guaranteed pay and benefits, bug out to seek a civi job? Probably not……

[Spike]

You punch racetracks in the sky, theres no actual mission besides getting a 1.2 and a paycheck. Ive been to both sides and I just want to make it clear that your post was uneducated at best. You have no clue what military pilots go through and what they do every day.

 

I agree with the majority of your post, however, as a former civilian CFI, I take offence to this statement.

 

As a CFI, my “mission” was to provide the best flight instruction possible to my students/customers so they may receive FAA Pvt/Com/CFI certification. This also allowed the company for which I worked to profit and profit they did. Furthermore, as a CFI, I did much, much more then “punch racetracks in the sky”. While I understand the reason for the tone of your post, it would appear it’s just as “uneducated” the original offender…. And no, I didn’t have the opportunity to experience the military side as I chose not to, nor needed to. That fact should not take away from what I went through to get where I am today.

 

Simply put, there is no reason to paint all CFI’s with this opinion just because of one bad apple.

 

 

Thank you for your service to our country….

Edited October 26, 2011 by Spike

[Eggbeater]

I agree with the majority of your post, however, as a former civilian CFI, I take offence to this statement.

 

As a CFI, my “mission” was to provide the best flight instruction possible to my students/customers so they may receive FAA Pvt/Com/CFI certification. This also allowed the company for which I worked to profit and profit they did. Furthermore, as a CFI, I did much, much more then “punch racetracks in the sky”. While I understand the reason for the tone of your post, it would appear it’s just as “uneducated” the original offender…. And no, I didn’t have the opportunity to experience the military side as I chose not to, nor needed to. That fact should not take away from what I went through to get where I am today.

 

Simply put, there is no reason to paint all CFI’s with this opinion just because of one bad apple.

 

 

Thank you for your service to our country….

 

Damn Spike, took the words right out of my mouth. We need to remember that unfair stereotypes/generalizations exist on both sides.

[Spike]

We need to remember that unfair stereotypes/generalizations exist on both sides.

 

Yep.

 

My partner (as in police partner) is a retired CW, IP, Desert Storm Vet, career Army aviator. Between us, you couldn’t tell who was civi trained and who was mil trained. The fact is; it really doesn’t matter. We both get the job done in the same manner, method, skill, ect, etc… Although I do refer to him as the “goggle guy” since he has way more hours on goggles then I do…..

Edited October 27, 2011 by Spike

[d10]

There will be pilots leaving the military whether they want to or not here soon. Warrant Officers need to make promotions when they become eligible in order to stay in. This wasn't a big deal in the past because the rates were near 100% at least through W-4. The defense budget was huge and we needed all the pilots we could get because of our wars. Neither is true anymore and the military is looking to cut a lot of people (to include pilots) that we've built up over the last 10 years. They've started denying promotions to W-3 and W-4 and the people who miss twice will be involuntarily discharged. Not to mention some of our bonuses have already been cut and it's pretty clear that more pay and benefits cuts will be coming. There are lots of people on the fence about staying in or getting out and this could make their decision for them, regardless of the state of civilian aviation.