Helicopter Mustering....

[Next_12]

[Adam S]

show me the car fax

[Next_12]

hmm is the "Car Fox" Ok???

[gary-mike]

WOW! Brings to my mind another thread. If this is what you have to do to muster cattle... Maybe CFII and tours are better suited for newbies. This job apears to be in the ranks of the power companies wire men, only without the 10,000,000 gigawtts of electricity. If this R-ZEBRA is demonstrating the common mustering practices, I think it is more of a high time job than tours.

 

Of course I wouldn't know, maybe a pilots skills are that tight at 200 hrs. And at least in this situation it would only be the operator going down if there was a mistake, and no innocent customers. I just think that it would take someone being truely one with the machine. Due to my lack of experience I am not sure a pilot is coming straight from the training environment. Is the right person for the job.

 

Someone wanna set me straight if I'm wrong? Is this the skill level that is acheavable by someone like myself at a 200hr level? I sure hope so, but I am guessing it may take a bit more time and discipline especially if it takes 100hrs to learn how to handle fixed floats.

[gary-mike]

Sorry, forgot to mention it was a pretty cool video either way.

[r22butters]

All that wild, low-level, jerking around, reminds me of when I was learning how to hover!

[lelebebbel]

I think I know who that is, and he is pretty experienced. Probably 10k hrs +.

 

That being said, this is about 2% of what mustering really is. The other 98% you are just flying a grid at 200-500ft and 40 or 50kts. But that doesn't make for very good youtube footage.

 

This video looks as if he is actually trying to sort out a few stubborn beasts, maybe with a bit of show added for the specators. Note how he is using the dust to get some of them going the right way.

Pretty much all of the other videos of "cattle mustering" you can find on the net are really just wankers showing off for the camera, with some fake drama added to it. Worse than those cop-shows on TV.

 

For those who really want to know how a bit about how this industry works, find a copy of the (1990's) film - "Empires of Dust".

 

Mustering is sort of a beginners job over here - but that is beginner pilot, not beginner cowboy. Everyone I know has worked on cattle stations for years (read: grown up on one) before getting their licence. If you don't know how a mustering operation is run on the ground you would be 100% useless in the helicopter. Low hour pilots start out flying lots of dual with experienced guys, at some companies they do 100hrs+ that way. Then they are obviously sent out doing easier tasks first, like flying said grids on flat, open paddocks. The more dangerous stuff like yarding up (which could be what he is doing in that video) is left to more experienced drivers. Or ground crew.

 

Mustering is actually a very good way for new pilots to start out, with the big catch that they have to have that cattle background.

There is a certain "Darwinism" happening, the idiots / show-offs tend to remove themselves from the industry somewhere between 500-1000hrs, one way or another (Getting a start with the wrong operator can also lead to an early end of one's career - and life, unfortunately).

Most mustering pilots have no interest whatsoever to enter any other field of the helicopter industry, which is a shame. There are many people out here with 10,000hrs R22 mustering and nothing else in their logbooks.

Edited October 28, 2011 by lelebebbel

[Spike]

To my knowledge, this method of mustering is mostly done primarily Down Under by operators who specialize with helicopter cattle operations. Here in the US, if a ranch does utilize a helicopter, it’s usually owned by the ranch and flown by the owner. From what I’ve seen, the US owners rarely use the Aussi style of mustering as they don’t want to pay for the damage incurred from the obvious strain on the machine. Not to mention the ever present risk associated with lima-lima (low-level) flying. Plus, the owners prefer not to become a smoking hole in the ground just to move his bovine from here, to there….

 

If I remember correctly, years ago, the Australian regulators allowed the life of R22 blades to extend 200 hours beyond Robinson 2000 hour life limit. Again, to my understanding, these mustering operators would buy up these US timed-out blades on the cheap, and flew them the extra 200 hours… If this was in fact the case, can you imagine, you’d put on you cowboy pants, your cowboy shirt, slip on your cowboy boots with your cowboy hat and strap a worn-out R22 to you back with timed out blades and go fly like a………

 

Moo….

Edited October 28, 2011 by Spike

[lelebebbel]

Yes, these operations are unique to Australia, but mustering in itself is neither dodgy, incredibly dangerous, nor does it place enormous stress on the machine.

The reason this is done in Australia and not in the US is the size of our cattle stations here. Sizes of over 1 MILLION acres are common, the largest one currently is 6,000,000 acres. That's larger than Hawaii.

At the same time, they might only have one animal for every 50 acres. There is simply no other way than a helicopter.

 

Re. the pilots, no you can't simply strap on an R22 and go (although without doubt, some do). There is a low flying training syllabus, a Mustering training syllabus (which has to be completed with a experienced Mustering pilot, not just any instructor), as well as minimum hour requirements before you can legally be sent off alone. These requirements are typically exceeded by the established companies, because surprisingly, nobody makes any money if the helicopter ends up spread out in the paddock.

 

 

There was a study done on the stress placed on the aircraft components during this kind of flying a few years ago, where a number of R22s were fitted with an array of sensors, and everything was recorded for a period of a few months.

They found that pretty much every component gets stressed a lot LESS than what Robinson had assumed when calculating the aircraft life, with the exception of the Tail Rotor drive. Reason being that as I said, mustering is 98% flying at relatively low speeds straight and level or in turns, mostly with only one on board.

Wear and tear is highest in high speed cruise flight, which hardly ever happens during a muster.

The most common "mechanical" problems are actually 1) bad/low fuel or 2) carb icing, due to the very low power settings you fly around at all day.

Edit: I found the study:

http://www.atsb.gov.au/media/29947/b20040292.pdf

 

The Robinson Blade life is 2,200hrs for everyone (hardly any R22 blades make that limit due to delamination issues or FOD, but that's another issue....). The Engine is limited to 2,000hrs.

 

 

That being said, there are plenty of dodgy operators out there who will "extend" the life of the machine by not writing anything down, flying drunk, flying at night, without licences, exceeding flighttime limits... you name it. Unfortunately, they do tend to end up dead eventually. That aside, the industry has a surprisingly good safety record and has produced many very good pilots. I mean, if what you said was true, there wouldn't be any 10k or 20k hours + mustering pilots alive... but there are many.

 

 

 

Edited October 28, 2011 by lelebebbel

[r22butters]

A few years ago when I looked into doing this, I seem to recall them mentioning the requirement of a "mustering endorsement". So, obviously these guys are "specifically" trained.

 

It seems Mustering is just like AG. They say its a good way in for new pilots, but you have to work on the ground for a couple of years, or so, to learn the "industry specifics" first!

 

So, lets all move to Australia, and become Cowboys!,...yee ha!

[Spike]

Yes, these operations are unique to Australia, but mustering in itself is neither dodgy, incredibly dangerous, nor does it place enormous stress on the machine.

 

Re. the pilots, no you can't simply strap on an R22 and go (although without doubt, some do).

 

They found that pretty much every component gets stressed a lot LESS than what Robinson had assumed when calculating the aircraft life, with the exception of the Tail Rotor drive.

 

The Robinson Blade life is 2,200hrs for everyone (hardly any R22 blades make that limit due to delamination issues or FOD, but that's another issue....). The Engine is limited to 2,000hrs.

 

I mean, if what you said was true, there wouldn't be any 10k or 20k hours + mustering pilots alive... but there are many.

 

I had to go back and re-read my post to see if I missed something but, as I thought, I never said mustering operations were “dodgy” or “incredibility dangerous”. Nor did I say that mustering pilots were anything less than what they are. And, what they are by definition is cowboys. You even described them as “beginner pilots not beginner cowboys” and dedicated a whole paragraph to this fact. The fact of the matter is; these cowboys are required to fly like cowboys because that’s what the job entails and I believe this is rather obvious, even to an everyday layman. Furthermore, I’m not quite sure why the connotation of “cowboy” means anything negative. In this case, it’s exactly what they are and what it is…. Is it not????

 

In any case, as you already indicated, a lot of these pilots don’t move on to other segments of the industry because they have always been, and always will be, “cowboys”. This is no different then a Police Pilot who does nothing other than Law Enforcement flying. Or Ag pilots who fly nothing but Ag. The examples are endless. Clearly these mustering pilots are highly specialized just as a lot of other highly specialized pilot’s are. Additionally, my “strap on a worn out R22” comment didn’t mean “strap on and go” as you put it. Obviously, there is a learning curve but maybe I’m the only one who noticed it..

.

As far as the R22 TBO, when the R22 was initially introduced, it had a 2000 TBO and life limited parts which included the rotor blades. The 2200 TBO for the Robinson products came later in life. This would date you as it does me. Regardless, back then, the boyz down under picked up blades for pennies on the dollar. These blades didn’t end up on new 300 hour machines thus my “worn out” comment. As far as stress on the machine, this paragraph came from the ATSB study which you provided:

 

“Light utility helicopters are likely to remain engaged in aerial mustering operations. The R22 has been the most popular model for these types of operations, but owners and operators need to fully appreciate the stresses placed on aircraft during mustering operations, and the characteristics of aerial mustering operations, which may be quite different the type of flying for which the type originally received certification. “

 

Again, after seeing these fellers at work, ya don’t need to be in the helicopter business to understand. Shoot, you can hear the throttle/RPM manipulation like Travis Pastrana getting ready to do a double back-flip on his twofitty. Not to say it’s stressful beyond limits, IMHO, it’s just beyond what Frank intended for his little R22 and this is evident by the published ATSB report. Plus, saying it’s only stressful on the TR drive components is more then what a usual R22 owner would accept as normal wear-and-tear.

 

While Australian ranches are indeed big, they are not the only ones utilizing helicopters. One Nevada ranch I’m familiar with used a helicopter to monitor their herds but rarely “mustered” the cattle. In this case (as I stated) it was flown by the ranch owner. He used the machine as a luxury tool so putting any kind of stress (or risk) on the machine was financially unsound. Unfortunately, this particular machine did become a “smoking hole” but thankfully, all survived and I’m not sure if he continued to use a helicopter to support his cattle operation after the incident. I don’t think so, as I recall…

 

For us here in the U-S-of-A, mustering is far from achievable. While nothing is impossible, the reality is, very few Americans, if any, have ever been employed as an Australian cattle mustering pilot (and please correct me if I’m wrong). I’m pretty sure, the few jobs that there are, are occupied by “locals”. While this is a bummer to some, it’s not uncommon for the industry. Some other “locals only” positions are, SAG gigs, and to an extent heavy jobs. Shoot, I’ve never even seen a “help wanted” ad for a mustering pilot…

 

Lastly, while the insight you provided is interesting and informative, if you please, try not to read into my posts or misinterpret them and I will definitely try to be clearer with mine…. Thank you.

Respectfully.

Edited October 30, 2011 by Spike

[lelebebbel]

Sorry if I misinterpreted your post. A lot of people from outside Australia seem to think that "helicopter mustering = unprofessional rednecks torturing helicopters", which is understandable if they have only ever seen it in those youtube clips. After reading these bits

 

 

"Plus, the owners prefer not to become a smoking hole in the ground just to move his bovine from here, to there…."

...

strap a worn-out R22 to you back with timed out blades and go fly like a………

... I thought your comment was along those lines.

 

I work for a company that also happens to maintain a number of mustering helicopters. There are certain parts of the machines that are subject to higher wear and tear, but that also depends very much on the pilot. A lot of it is simply due to the dusty environment they operate in.

Normally, we don't see any of them between 100hr inspections. One of our customers just clocked over 10,500hrs on his machine (it is down for another rebuild right now) and it looks like it has less than a tenth of that. Betas seem to do a bit better than Beta 2s.

Like I said, a lot of the operators are unbelievably dodgy. On the other hand, some of the better known, larger companies like Helimuster have the best maintenance systems for Robinsons you will find anywhere outside the factory. Given the thousands of hours their machines fly, it is a simple business decision for them.

 

Overall, I'd say the mustering machines seem to last longer than flight training machines... another one of those things that R22s were never designed for...

Edited October 31, 2011 by lelebebbel