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What to consider when choosing and airframe?


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Although the Hind was faster and tougher, the Cobra was more agile. Soviet evaluations had demonstrated that in a contest between two helicopters the one that could turn more tightly was likely to win.

 

According to a story, the Cobra's advantage in maneuverability over the Hind had been demonstrated in the early 1980s. A Soviet Hind based in East Germany was flying along the border with West Germany, playing "cat" to a US Army Cobra flying on the other side of the border in the role of "mouse". The Cobra pilot was a "real pro", and the Hind pilot lost control trying to follow his maneuvers. The Soviet gunship went into the ground, killing its crew.

 

This "kill" could more be chalked up to the Soviet pilot's fatal stupidity than to the American pilot's skill, and in fact the Iraqis demonstrated that the contest between Hind and Cobra was far from one-sided.

 

It might not have seemed so at first. In November 1980, not long after the beginning of the war with Iraq's invasion of Iran on 22 September 1980, two Iranian SeaCobras crept up on two Hinds and hit them with TOW wired-guided antitank missiles. One Hind went down immediately, the other was badly damaged and crashed before reaching base. The Iranians pulled off a repeat performance on 24 April 1981, destroying two Hinds without loss to themselves.

 

Then the Iraqis hit back, claiming the destruction of a SeaCobra on 14 September 1983; three SeaCobras on 5 February 1984; and three more on 25 February 1984. Things went quiet for a time, and then on 13 February 1986 each side lost a gunship. A few days later, on 16 February, a Hind shot down a SeaCobra, with a SeaCobra claiming a Hind in return on 18 February. The last engagement between the two types was on 22 May 1986, when the Hinds shot down a SeaCobra.

 

The score in the end was 10 kills on SeaCobras and 6 kills on Hinds. The relatively small numbers and the inevitable disputes over actual kill numbers makes it unclear if one gunship had a real technical superiority over the other. It appears that the outcome of the fights was dependent more on the tactical situation and pilot skill than the inherent merits of each machine.

 

Iraqi Hinds also claimed a total of 43 kills against other Iranian helicopters, such as Agusta-Bell Hueys. One Hind even shot down an Iranian McDonnell F-4D Phantom jet fighter on 26 October 1982, though different sources give conflicting details of the incident.

 

 

 

Also, check this out:

 

http://www.faqs.org/...ir/avhind2.html

 

A google search on helicopter warfare during the Iran-Iraq war will turn up all the info about helicopter air to air that you could ever hope for.

Edited by SBuzzkill
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Thanks to the Air Force, that won't ever be an issue :D

 

That's the idea. We have the greatest airforce in the world and we expect to have air superiority on the battle field.

In the extremely unlikely occasion that I have the opportunity to engage another helicopter I would have a few options depending on how I was armed at the time. The internet has plenty of unclassified info on Apache weapons systems, but its probably not appropriate for me to talk about tactics. Not that there is even much written on the subject and you can probably find it out there, but since I'm actually flying these things I don't want to be the guy putting something out there. I'm sorry. LOL I know how that must sound. I really don't think there are huge secrets here but I just don't want to be 'that guy'.

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  • 1 month later...

That's the idea. We have the greatest airforce in the world and we expect to have air superiority on the battle field.

A little late to this discussion but just wanted to add some perspective.

 

Operationally, Marines operating from ships in austere and remote locations are not always guaranteed air superiority or a nearby carrier air wing. A capability like that might be needed in a pinch situation. Which is also why we also insist on having our own strike aircraft as well. But yes, air to air is not necessarily the first and foremost priority on Whiskey and the few Zulu aviators flying around today.

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  • 7 months later...

Im torn between the Kiowa and the Apache.

 

For me the Kiowa is just plain cool and I love the small helo feel and the mission it has. When deployed I always loved watching the Apache/Kiowa teams flying around with us overhead.

 

The Apache is well...the Apache. The baddest Attack Helicopter in the US arsenal. Half of me wants to fly that for the simple fact that its the Apache. Not many people outside of aviation enthusiasts and military personnel know what the Kiowa is. But walk into any room and say you are an Apache pilot and everyone will say "Sweet!".

 

Plus I've already conquered Abrams Tanks. If I get slotted for Attack helicopters then I will literally have done the two absolute coolest jobs the US military has to offer.

 

I really want to fly either of those two for the simple fact that I know first hand how it feels to be a ground pounder and need help from the air. I watched an Apache/Kiowa team light up some insurgents that blew up one of our convoys and ran into some trees to hide and ambush the search party (my squad). We called for help and they delivered with a vengeance. They likely saved our lives. I want to be able to support our ground troops in that same manner.

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I took over for that Medevac unit up above a couple months ago. We're going to have a much cooler video at the end of our deployment though. We have a guy who's spending the year with us and capturing as much as he can on video for a documentary. Unfortunately he was at a different site when we flew the most badass mission of the deployment, but I know he's still got plenty of good stuff to work with.

 

Current project: http://www.medevacthroughmylens.com

His work from 2010 with our unit + others: http://www.afghanistanthroughmylens.com

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  • 1 month later...

I was talking with a retired CH-47 pilot the other day and was wondering something. given that -47 slots are few and far between from others have said. When there are slots for a flight school class, have they been highly coveted or not so much?

 

Ya I've got a current CH-47 CW2 on my ass about selecting 47s when the time comes. It will be mighty interesting when -47 slots start dropping on selection day again.

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I was talking with a retired CH-47 pilot the other day and was wondering something. given that -47 slots are few and far between from others have said. When there are slots for a flight school class, have they been highly coveted or not so much?

 

Of course they have. The better question is have they been highly coveted because people legitimately want to fly 47s or because they're rare?

 

http://changingminds.org/explanations/theories/scarcity_principle.htm

 

About 10 years ago they were giving out Apache slots like they give out Black Hawks today and nobody wanted them.

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