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Heli-Expo 2012 Dallas Texas


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...One of the things i kept hearing is that they couldn't answer basic questions, like airspace.. one person that hires MANY of the CFIs moving into the commercial world said that they interviewed more than 25 and only four passed the first written test, of those, NONE were hired due to lack of basic knowledge,...

 

Gee wiz!,...and to think, just about every three to four weeks I actually review a number of "very basic" things (in fact I'm due for one this week),...and yet can't get an interview! Oh' the irony! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

Good luck fellas!

:)

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As a panel member, the HAI Outreach to Students Discussion Panel had a very low turnout. Apparently, over the last few years, this was a standing-room only event. This year, maybe 10 people showed.

 

It would be interesting to know how many folks who attended were looking to get into the business rather than graduates looking to move up. That is, pre-commercial. It would seem, not many. This tells me, while the bus is full; there are very few people, if any, waiting at the stops. With a “major” rumored to need 600 or so pilots in the not so distant future, the shortage everyone claims doesn’t exist, may be looming on the horizon. Couple this with the perceived low quality of outgoing/incoming CFI’s, the industry may have a big problem on its hands……..

 

In my opinion

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...the shortage everyone claims doesn’t exist, may be looming on the horizon. Couple this with the perceived low quality of outgoing/incoming CFI’s, the industry may have a big problem on its hands……

 

You'll know there's a shortage when a pilot like me finds a way in,...I wouldn't hold my breath though! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :rolleyes:

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The facilitator of the Student Outreach Panel said, “Employers [beyond flight schools] prefer to hire CFI’s”, and “some employers [beyond flight schools] prefer their pilots hold a CFI rating”. Plus, Panel members commented, there was a measurable difference between CFI’s and non-CFI’s….

 

Not my opinion but rather what was said by other insiders, in public…..

 

One amazing attendee was a wounded Iraq Vet who had a leg and thumb amputation who is overcoming these obstacles to achieve his goals. Simply amazing to see such drive and enthusiasm… I truly wish him all the best….

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Ok, here goes, i am still very busy and cannot post everything but i did want to get to some of this:

 

Spike, i believe that you are exactly right, there will be a shortage. I spoke of this at the HeliExpo in 2009 when i first started talking about Aviation Futures, Lyn did further research and backed that up over the following year. At that time the operators did not see it coming and really didn’t want to stop and worry about it.. it is coming, for many reasons: the collapse of silverstate, older pilots retiring, pilots not getting that first job after CFI or after their magic 1000/1500 hours and moving on to other jobs to pay their bills/loans (in the new careers they loose currency and thus have even a harder time getting that heli job & they get use to stability, good money and benefits), poorly trained pilots due to all of the above, lack of funding which is causing schools to close and diluting the pool of incoming pilots (also here, the very focused responsible candidates with jobs and good credit that want to change careers and could get a loan are declining, while the opposite, who’s parents (or the government) are paying the way and are in this biz for the wrong reasons are staying the same, more of these weaker and/or less focused pilots are making it into the pool)...

 

I could go on an on but this is for another topic.

 

 

Pohi, i loved your comment about the hiring folks ‘breaking the chain by not hiring people that are not qualified”. That statement is really profound and one of the things we need to make our industry better on the upper end of the spectrum. We also need to educate the folks coming into our industry that picking the right school is one of the most important things they can do, in many ways. I have found that there are a lot of good schools, so i guess the best thing is to NOT end up at the WRONG school and unfortunately there are a lot of those as well. That too is another topic, for those of you that are reading this for the first time i recommend you read my topic about “Things i learned my first year as a student pilot..”

 

http://helicopterfor...-student-pilot/

 

I also highly recommend that you get Lyn’s book:

 

“Everything you ever wanted to know about becoming a Helicopter Pilot!”

 

This an interactive book filled with tons of info.. here’s the link:

 

http://www.thehelico...roductCode=CDE1

 

Sooo, on to Pohi’s questions: “As far as who is to blame for inadequate 1000 hour pilots, I am curious to hear your theories on that one. It would be very easy to blame any number of things.... The pilots previous CFI, DPE, the school where the pilot instructs, the pilot, the economy, and even the FAA (that's a really big stretch though).”

 

 

Wow, this is harder to answer than i thought. I will try to break it up for clarity. Keep in mind that these are just my humble opinions and i am not trying to slam anyone, just help.

 

 

I think the first responsibility goes directly to the Pilots. I know of folks that went thru one of the worst programs ever and they did well and moved on to great jobs.. They did their own research, did much of their ground their selves, kept their head down and focused and now are flying at their dream jobs. I think the key word here is ‘research’, they got as much info as possible, were realists and knew what it would take to get there.. and they were willing to do just that; what it took. At Heli-Ops we have seen many candidates that think this will be all fun and games, and buckle when they realize what we expect. Some of these move on to other less focused schools where it’s easier and not as structured.. not realizing that they are hurting themselves. On that subject, when i started i had no idea how hard it would be, all i wanted to do was fly, but caught on very quickly that it’s about much more than just wiggling the sticks..

 

CFIs: yes, but only to some degree, we all know that our system is broken and somewhat backwards, we have beginners teaching beginners and that is the ‘effect’ of many issues, but the ‘cause’ would be the lack of structure and focus in schools. It used to drive me crazy to get into the helicopter and have the instructor say “ok, what do you want to do today?” This is one of the reasons why we believe in SBT, it is a standardized program that all of our instructors use, it has records of what the student does and where they are, it empowers the student (pilot in training) to track their own progress and take responsibility for it (i humbly thank Mike Franz for that).

 

DPE, maybe, but minor, most of these folks go by the same rules and are serious about their responsibilities.. I have seen both extremes, but that is for another topic.

 

The School where the Pilot instructs, hmm, a long topic and one i am passionate about (and thus the reason Heli-Ops exists).. this could be intentional by the school; just in it for the $$, or completely unintentional; in financial trouble due to mismanagement or lack of new students due to financing or troubled economy, the owners might be spending all of their time just keeping the doors open or helicopters running and not have time to work on the program or keeping their instructors on the same page.. it’s hard to keep your program up and growing when you don’t have the $$ to hire good people. Instructors leave, “like our kids, we raise them to leave”, it takes a lot of focus to keep good help and everyone on the same page teaching the same thing, the only way to do this is have a structured program and make sure everyone believes in it and sticks to it. One of the smartest things i heard at the Flight Training Committee meeting came from a Law Enforcement Instructor/Trainer, he said that they strive to keep their program from being incestuous.. that is, they bring in new instructors when they can to keep the information flow changing... This has been a challenge but part of our program as well.

 

The FAA, don’t see this as part of the problem, we have had challenges getting our 141 put thru due to lack of funds at the FSDO, but that didn’t stop us from producing a structured program and sticking to it. I do believe 141 programs help the industry as a whole, but it’s not the over-all answer by any means. One of the sad things here is that some schools only persue their 141 for government benefits (Chapter 33) and could care less about the structure it brings.

 

The economy, absolutely, i covered that in the rest of this rant..

 

Here are some of my personal thoughts and things that were discussed at the Expo:

 

Lack of currency: This can be due to a lot of things, schools closing or downsizing and the pilots that are let go or move on don’t get a slot right off the bat (if you are working, stay there until you get another job, DO NOT THINK ‘i have the time and will get picked up'... you simply cannot take that risk). Or, the schools downsizing and the CFIs don’t fly enough. Some schools don’t have instrument ships or flight sims so if you end up there your instrument skills could diminish dramatically (don’t think that you will be going to a job that doesn’t care about that.. times have changed!!). Some CFIs are forced to take jobs at any school to keep flying, they may have only one or two students and don’t fly much, AND, we learn when we teach, so if they are teaching only one or two students they don’t get that precious time growing. In the resumes that i have from the job fair it’s surprising how many say ‘unemployed but currently teaching a single owner or student on the side’, this is great, keeps them flying, but the more you can teach the better exposure you will have and thus the better the pilot..

 

CFIs not getting their II.. when we look at resumes we’d much rather have a pilot that has been TEACHING instrument rather than one that got their instrument two or three years ago and haven’t looked back. And on that subject, you do need your instrument now days.. PERIOD. If you want to go into EMS you need at least 200 hours of night as well.. the best place, almost the ONLY place, to get that is teaching.. Get your CFII and teach instrument at night..

 

Not being prepared for the ‘interview’, that is, thinking it will ‘just’ be an interview and ending up taking a written or oral with the CP. Take this stuff seriously, and do not be standing in line in a T-shirt next to the guy or gal in a suit.. STUDY before that interview.. BE PREPARED.

 

Nervousness: This goes back to not being prepared, some folks have never been to a serious interview before, others this is so important to them that the nerves get to them.. if you are in this boat, get some help, i know of TWO professional coaches here in Denver that specialize in getting commercial pilots ready for job interviews... you learned how to fly helicopters well, you can learn how to slam an interview.

 

Solutions:

 

Go to HeliSuccess.. period, notice that this is on the top of my list, number one every time. At the job fair you could definitely tell the folks that had been to Lyn’s program, they were more prepared and looking sharp.. Can you imagine having a Harvard PHD look over your resume for FREE???? And some will say that going to the HeliSuccess is a waste of time.. yeah right.

 

At Heli-Ops we are discussing producing an ongoing class to teach pilots how to interview, improve their resumes and knowledge base in preparation for that interview. Maybe we’d have one before the next HeliExpo.. still talking about that one.

 

Job fair; i will recommend that next year we have two job fairs; that is, have the first one to see everyone, and then invite the few that make the cut to a second location where there is more time to sit down with them. We saw a ton of folks and many were qualified or fit what we were looking for, even more i introduced to other people that were looking for help, even some operators that were not at the job fair, i know for sure one of those were hired already. I personally would have liked to have much more time with the ones that impressed me. So for us at least, we’ll have a second smaller meeting to network with the folks that deserve it.

 

Well, i have to go to work, so that’s it for now...

 

I know there are folks out there much smarter and with tons more experience than i, please take the time to add CONSTRUCTIVE solutions to this topic.

 

sincerely,

 

dp

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Great post, very thought out and well written. I have to agree with pretty much everything you said.

 

I agree that the primary responsibility does fall to the pilot/student themself. The information as far as knowledge is all out there, and even better, it's all free. When it comes to technique and flying ability, this is a bit harder to build alone.

 

But, from what you described the flying ability and skill was not even a factor due to the applicants inability to even make it past a written test and oral interview. A very skilled pilot (as far as stick skills) with poor knowledge isn't (and shouldn't) land that next flying position. IMHO, that's just common sense.

 

I joke that "they wouldn't call it the bare minimums if it wasn't good enough" but sometimes knowing just enough, or focusing only on what the local DPE will ask in order to pass a checkride isn't going to cut it.

 

Easier said than done, it is also up to the CFI to resist external pressures to send a student for a checkride that will pass (maybe after two tries), but has no business being a pilot :-). For example, somebody who has rote knowledge, but is unable to take that knowledge to the next level.

 

 

 

A student who goes above and beyond the level of knowledge that their instructor demands (assuming their instructor is one of these problem pilots) will then become a better CFI, and hopefully maintain this higher standard to their students regardless of where they work.

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The facilitator of the Student Outreach Panel said, “Employers [beyond flight schools] prefer to hire CFI’s”, and “some employers [beyond flight schools] prefer their pilots hold a CFI rating”. Plus, Panel members commented, there was a measurable difference between CFI’s and non-CFI’s….

 

I definitely agree that operators (beyond flight schools) prefer CFIs (or actually CFIIs!). However, if they are increasingly dissapointed in the quality of these CFIs, then,...well,...when they get to my resume, they must think I'm a low-grade moron!? :unsure: :rolleyes:

 

As for the upcoming shortage,...well. Until I see jobs posts from Tempsco and Papillion for 800hr pilots because they aren't getting enough 1000hr applicants, or I start seeing 500hr R44 jobs (regularly posted),...or I get my first interview in five and a half years,...there's no shortage!

 

It is a great hook though, for luring in gullible newbies (like I was so many years ago)! <_<

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Dennis,

 

I talked with many operators, chief pilots and training pilots at the show. One of the questions I asked was 'What weaknesses are you seeing in the new hire pilots?' Some of the answers were not surprising.

 

LACK of WORK ETHIC. Not giving at least 100%. Not taking care of the equipment. Not looking out for the company's best interests. Not showing up for work on time. and so on.

 

Not knowing the emergency procedures. This is after training or in pilots that 'have' experience in type. Unable to think through emergencies.

 

Lack of Systems Understanding. Unable to think through system problems. Unable to do a reasonable mechanical writeup. Unable to troubleshoot a problem.

 

Unable to navigate without GPS.

 

Taking way too long to flight plan.

 

Unable to flight plan on the fly.

 

Not flexible enough. Having difficulties in dealing with the customer changes during a flight. This is after all a service business.

 

Not knowing the Regs. One large operator gave 30 applicants a 25 question test on the sectional chart, airspace and symbols, and only 4 passed.

 

Lack of appropriate manners. This seems to be an issue in the high end passenger charter and corporate world.

 

As far as who is to blame, there is enough blame to go aroung. The schools, the instructors, the students and the FAA all have a share in the blame.

Edited by rick1128
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I feel that the faults of the existing and the up and coming pilots and their inability to use ADM, SA, SRM, and RM is on all of us (you, me and the entire industry).

 

We train to minimum standards for many reasons and totally overlook the development of Higher Order Thinking Skills (HOTS). Accident statistics show Human Factors as the cause of a large percentage of the accidents but our training system does not reflect a change to address this.

 

Oops, some changes are coming thru the PTS in the SRM section. Entities such as SAFE, IHST, AOPA, NAFI, HAI, FAASTeam, FAA and Insurance companies are slowly realizing that flying the helicopter is not the same as operating it safely, making good decisions and "Protecting the Sacred Trust" at all times. They are beginning to work together towards modernization and HOTS development in pilots, both rotary and fixed wing. This is not reinventing the wheel but rather fixing the broken spokes.

 

During Heli Success this last November, I made a "Wings" presentation on the lack of ADM training in current curriculums. During the presentation I presented the concept of being PIC and the responsibility of "Protecting the Sacred Trust". Simply, it is accepting and performing the actions to return all of the passengers and self in at least the same condition as they were in at take off!

 

Mark S. from Papillon wants all incoming pilots to totally understand the "Protecting the Sacred Trust" mentality. He told me at Heli Success to send him all of the CFIs/Fits Facilitators that were teaching this methodology. He understood how these pilots would have HOTS. Questions about this (PtST") may be part of the initial interview when you hand him a resume. I hope to be working with their new hire and training department for some adjustments for new hires.

 

There are elements of the FITS Methodology Concepts that can be included into training curriculums to improve ADM, SRM, RM and develop HOTS in up and coming pilots.

 

I will continue to mentor pilots/CFIs and promote modern training programs that are slowly being recognized as what the industry needs to move forward. If we (you, me and the industry) work together in the recognition of modernization of training and production of safer pilots it can be a great career with decreasing accident statistics.

 

Sincerely,

 

Mike

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I feel that the faults of the existing and the up and coming pilots and their inability to use ADM, SA, SRM, and RM is on all of us (you, me and the entire industry).

 

We train to minimum standards for many reasons and totally overlook the development of Higher Order Thinking Skills (HOTS). Accident statistics show Human Factors as the cause of a large percentage of the accidents but our training system does not reflect a change to address this.

 

Oops, some changes are coming thru the PTS in the SRM section. Entities such as SAFE, IHST, AOPA, NAFI, HAI, FAASTeam, FAA and Insurance companies are slowly realizing that flying the helicopter is not the same as operating it safely, making good decisions and "Protecting the Sacred Trust" at all times. They are beginning to work together towards modernization and HOTS development in pilots, both rotary and fixed wing. This is not reinventing the wheel but rather fixing the broken spokes.

 

During Heli Success this last November, I made a "Wings" presentation on the lack of ADM training in current curriculums. During the presentation I presented the concept of being PIC and the responsibility of "Protecting the Sacred Trust". Simply, it is accepting and performing the actions to return all of the passengers and self in at least the same condition as they were in at take off!

 

Mark S. from Papillon wants all incoming pilots to totally understand the "Protecting the Sacred Trust" mentality. He told me at Heli Success to send him all of the CFIs/Fits Facilitators that were teaching this methodology. He understood how these pilots would have HOTS. Questions about this (PtST") may be part of the initial interview when you hand him a resume. I hope to be working with their new hire and training department for some adjustments for new hires.

 

There are elements of the FITS Methodology Concepts that can be included into training curriculums to improve ADM, SRM, RM and develop HOTS in up and coming pilots.

 

I will continue to mentor pilots/CFIs and promote modern training programs that are slowly being recognized as what the industry needs to move forward. If we (you, me and the industry) work together in the recognition of modernization of training and production of safer pilots it can be a great career with decreasing accident statistics.

 

Sincerely,

 

Mike

 

I must admit, I've had trouble studying this type of stuff (its all so damn dry!). Do you know of any videos, or books on tape, that cover these various ADM topics (to make them a little easier to sink in)?

:huh:

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r22butters, if you google "Aeronautical Decision Making", many resources will be available. Below are a few listings.

 

www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgPOeUsllwM

 

https://www.faasafety.gov/.../ ...

 

Currently rated pilots can improve with ADM programs brought forward in flight reviews and 135 initial and recurrent training.

 

PM me if you or anyone needs more help.

 

Mike

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Is no one going to blame the hiring companies themselves?

 

Work Ethic? I work very hard but I also am not rewarded for this in anyway besides my own personal pride. Companies these days dump employees just as fast as employees dump companies. It is a vicious circle, one I personally believe started with companies actions. There has to be an employment ethic in order for your employees to have a work ethic.

 

Qualified employees? When companies themselves promote or hire based on a number alone they again are breeding this problem. I am a very capable IFR pilot that was looked over for a long time because I didn't have any actual time. Instead of hiring a technologically knowledgable pilot that grew up with computers and Garmin 430s they hired pilots with 300 hours IFR flying ADFs. Look beyond the numbers and think outside the box.

 

If pilots can't answer basic questions then fire them. Stop putting warm bodies in the seats and start putting qualified and knowledgable pilots in them. People, in general, will do as little as possible to not get fired. So if you want a certain level of pilot then fire those that don't meet your standard. It may take a couple of years but the rest of riff raff will work itself out.

 

Obviously there are problems with the students, the instructors, the system at large but in our industry the companies are the leaders. The companies set the example they want. Look at company training programs which are at best "half-assed" most of the time and you will no long wonder why pilots in training are not too concerned about their knowledge.

 

I worked for another company that wanted me to do a contract I was not comfortable with yet. I was a new pilot, wet behind the ears, and they wanted me to do high DA work at or near max gross into tight LZs after only a few months of working with the company (this was a major tour operator and also my first turbine job). I declined saying I wasn't comfortable yet and would feel more comfortable in a few more months. Was I thanked for my honesty and good judgement? No, I was looked down upon. This is not a proper environment if you want competent pilots.

 

And then there is the ever present you get what you pay for. Want better pilots? Pay more...they will come. Demand high expectations and pay well for those expectations.

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I attended a seminar recently that was focused on the differences between the learning and expectations of the various generations. This is the first time where Gen Y, Gen X all the way thru baby boomers are all thrown into the same work space at the same time. (Basically due to later retirement ages now common.) When you look at some of these deficiencies and the entitlement attitudes I can almost tell you which age group is involved.

 

A little off the track of the discussion, but fact is, these different generations have different skill sets and different ways of learning. I can't help but think that maybe we are taking one lesson, taught one way and trying to cram it into 4 different generations that all think and learn differently.

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Some more good points about blame placing and generational gaps/differences. To fix problems we first must recognize them, then we must step up and fix them even if it is not the best for us individually.

 

Consider this: fixed wing pilots still learn to fly like the Wright Bros. Helo pilots are trained to fly a helo like it was 1947 (Bell 47)! FAA 141 programs are based on 4 stages and only in Stage IV (Prep for the check ride) are they given one hour of ground instruction on ADM. This is so dated and not addressing the ADM causal factors of accidents. To put this in perspective, fixed wing pilots would train with no telephone capabilities. Helo pilots not much better. When I learned to fly helos (1967), phones were corded to the wall and there were no computers.

 

The world has technologically advanced but our flight training methods have not. Great mediums exist for training. Audio visual devices, HD, GoPro, Simulators, Power Point, etc. are in use but still not addressing ADM causal factors ab initio. Our aircraft are now mostly Technically Advanced Aircraft (TAA) because of glass presentations/delivery (PFD, MFD, TAWS, SYN VIS, etc.) of tremendous amounts of information.

 

Blame, blame, blame. Let us all be a brotherhood and step up and work together to fix this.

 

My email is mikefranz@embarqmail.com. I am willing to help any individual, CFI, flight school or operator with modern training methods and accident reduction.

 

Mike

 

PS. an after thought to mention that most , if not all, of the CFIs I have mentored were sincere in their efforts to train pilots to fly and be safe. They were trained to the existing standards that are incomplete or antiquated. I never found one that could not fly well and it was usually in a strange turbine airframe on an extended x-c. (2, 000+ nm)

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I worked for another company that wanted me to do a contract I was not comfortable with yet. I was a new pilot, wet behind the ears, and they wanted me to do high DA work at or near max gross into tight LZs after only a few months of working with the company (this was a major tour operator and also my first turbine job). I declined saying I wasn't comfortable yet and would feel more comfortable in a few more months. Was I thanked for my honesty and good judgement? No, I was looked down upon. This is not a proper environment if you want competent pilots.

 

And then there is the ever present you get what you pay for. Want better pilots? Pay more...they will come. Demand high expectations and pay well for those expectations.

 

Playing devil's advocate, if you were hired in that environment and couldn't do the job, by your own admission being new and in a new aircraft with a few months on the job, which I would assume is past the break in period, why should they thank you for not being able to get the job done? (I'm making the assumption that you could do it later with more experience.)

 

The reason I ask is because by your own example pilots should be fired for not being able to answer questions. Surely you paint with a broad stroke in that statement. I would say more training is required in both instances.

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...and the entitlement attitudes I can almost tell you which age group is involved...

 

I'm not sure what generation I'm classified under, but this "entitlement" thing has popped up several times before, and it has me somewhat confused!

 

Does this mean that you are interviewing pilots who feel they don't need to start at the bottom with a company (cleaning out the helicopter at the end of the day, sweeping the hanger, answering the phones, etc...)?,...or is it something else?

 

I've actually recieved responses (from the "old guys") claiming that I feel as if I'm entitled to a job after posting that I believe employers should, at least, have the "professional courtesy" to respond to a job inquiry?,...or that a 200hr pilot should be able to get a job actually flying!?,...or that a new pilot shouldn't have to get in their car, drive all over the country, begging for work door to door!

 

Does this mean I have the "entitlement attitude"?

:huh:

Edited by r22butters
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Playing devil's advocate, if you were hired in that environment and couldn't do the job, by your own admission being new and in a new aircraft with a few months on the job, which I would assume is past the break in period, why should they thank you for not being able to get the job done? (I'm making the assumption that you could do it later with more experience.)

 

The reason I ask is because by your own example pilots should be fired for not being able to answer questions. Surely you paint with a broad stroke in that statement. I would say more training is required in both instances.

 

I have to agree with you there. After training, a pilot should be able to do the job they applied for. Max gross/high da isn't asking a lot from a pilot. I might understand if somebody applied for a job flying from a to b and then out of nowhere the company wants them to long line workers onto power lines. That would be above and beyond the job description, and would take more training.

 

However, at the time a pilot is applying for a 1000+ job, especially with stiff competition, flying at or near max gross should not be anything new. I applaud the mention to the company that there was a uncomfort level, because that shows the integrety that a pilot should have. On the other hand if I was a coworker, chief pilot, or HR director, I would be asking myself what happened in the interview process that this pilot deficiency was not caught before the company spendt all that money on training.

 

I'm not the greatest gift to aviation, but I'm not going to apply for a job I can't do (when it is expected that I can).

 

It's like a truck driver taking a job and telling his boss he will drive on the highways, but not in the city.

Or a police officer who writes tickets, but doesn't want to patrol at night.

 

 

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Playing devil's advocate, if you were hired in that environment and couldn't do the job, by your own admission being new and in a new aircraft with a few months on the job, which I would assume is past the break in period, why should they thank you for not being able to get the job done? (I'm making the assumption that you could do it later with more experience.)

 

The reason I ask is because by your own example pilots should be fired for not being able to answer questions. Surely you paint with a broad stroke in that statement. I would say more training is required in both instances.

 

I was doing the job I applied for. These contracted side jobs were not even known to me when I applied for the position. Further the company knew this was asking a lot of new pilots as they mainly only allowed pilots who were on their second season to do this job. Because of their low pay and treatment of employees they did not hold on to enough second season pilots to do this work. Accordingly they "had" to have someone do the work. They had four new hires that they asked to do it that accepted. Out of these four, three had over torqued the aircraft within a month of working on the contract. During the entire season there were 9 over torques that required further maintenance and countless others that just required a reset.

 

The job utilized underpowered aircraft that was operating at the absolute edge of the envelope if not outside of it. I do not believe that I was asking too much for a little more time to really get to know the helicopter and performance properties to operate in such a hostile area.

 

So maybe I was wrong to apply to this "entry level" position or under qualified (I strongly disagree with both these statements) but all I know is I made it through the season without ever damaging an aircraft which I believe is what every operator should desire above all else. I had the knowledge and decision making skills to keep myself out of an environment I did not feel comfortable flying in. Again, this decision making is what pilots need. Not an innate ability to wiggle sticks.

 

As a side note this contract is now flown with a more powerful aircraft with only second season employees or late season first year employees. Gee, I wonder why...

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Jimbo, I agree that your decision making was good and what pilots need to learn and apply.

 

A point about helo ops, if an aircraft engine meets minimum allowable specifications (which makes the performance charts valid), the aircraft is not underpowered but rather overloaded. Of the three factors that govern helicopter performance, weight is the only one controllable by the pilot.

 

Keep the mentality that you have and move forward safely.

 

Mike

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Jimbo, I agree that your decision making was good and what pilots need to learn and apply.

 

A point about helo ops, if an aircraft engine meets minimum allowable specifications (which makes the performance charts valid), the aircraft is not underpowered but rather overloaded. Of the three factors that govern helicopter performance, weight is the only one controllable by the pilot.

 

Keep the mentality that you have and move forward safely.

 

Mike

 

Good point Mike. Just a habit of when something doesn't work as well as it should to call it underpowered. We can say for the loads they wanted to carry it did not have the performance margain necesary.

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I was doing the job I applied for.

 

So maybe I was wrong to apply to this "entry level" position or under qualified (I strongly disagree with both these statements) but all I know is I made it through the season without ever damaging an aircraft which I believe is what every operator should desire above all else.

 

As a side note this contract is now flown with a more powerful aircraft with only second season employees or late season first year employees. Gee, I wonder why...

 

I suppose my point was too vague. Your original post reminds me of the mindset that people who drive faster than you on the road are crazy and the ones driving slower are idiots.

 

You went on to say that you don't feel you were under-qualified, and followed up by implying that the job was better flown by second season pilots. I'm confused by this statement. Do you feel more experience or more training would have enabled you to get the job done?

 

 

Stop putting warm bodies in the seats and start putting qualified and knowledgable pilots in them.

 

I applaud that as a green pilot you had the tenacity to say "No" and I find myself telling new pilots all the time that "The job does not need to get done." Meaning that the customers emphasis of need has little bearing in my go/no go process. I also understand how difficult it can be to say no. I also often make the analogy of a bunch of guys leaving a bar calling a cab. When it shows up and you have 7 guys and the driver says he can only take 5, a lot of times you'll try and talk him into doing something he says you can't. All the more so if you're standing in the rain or snow, it's late, etc.. Really just a bunch more reasons why he shouldn't but can make a person try to convince him all the more that they need to get 7 in a cab. The point being that the customer has a request and you use your judgement to get that request taken care of, but not necessarily in the way he thinks is best.

 

Regarding no overtorques/damage. That really is the expectation. Like Chris Rock says in his stand ups about a guy bragging that he takes care of his kids... That's what you're supposed to do.

 

Ultimately, I get it, but the statement that someone who can't answer a question should be fired is the part I'm focused on. Just as you shouldn't have been canned for not taking the contract nor should the 3 guys that overtorqued, but I do have to wonder why one guy flew the job and didn't have any issues.

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