Intro, Chances for WOFT, Updates

[Gingerw00ki3]

Flight physical came back OK.

 

Cannot find a recruiter/battalion willing to submit my packet with a waiver, because they think I am not competitive. I understand where they are coming from. I would like to try and submit it anyway, but if no one will even let me face a station/battalion level board for approval/denial what can I do?

 

I guess I could try a different region, but its usually the same everywhere I was told.

 

Any help would be appreciated. At the worst, at least this thread may help someone else with the process and in getting selected.

 

Most likely I will enlist and then try again down the line, unless something miraculously changes.

 

Thanks again Gentlemen.

 

Walk in there and tell that SGT/SSG to do his damn job and submit the waiver. Be blut about it. If he's giving you the cold shoulder, take your case to the station commander.

 

 

If all else fails... all MOSes are eligible to drop a flight packet. Once your foot is in the door, make SPC or SGT... drop an enlisted packet. If all else fails and they don't give you an MOS that's flight related, you've got the post 9/11 GI bill and you can go fly civilian birds for a LOT cheaper than out of pocket costs.

[UnitedWeStand111]

Thanks everyone.

 

My recruiter just called me, the new station commander is willing to submit the waiver and let me see the board. He says, if I'm committed to joining the Army he will give me a shot. But if I don't get selected I have to enlist.

 

I'm supposed to go down to the office tomorrow and complete some more paperwork.

 

LETTERS OF RECOMMENDATION! I don't have any right now LOL I contacted a CW5 and he told me to find an Active Duty WO or go kick rocks.

 

I'll get one from my West Point graduate Father, Director of a company, Reserve SF neighbor, Flight Instructor, maybe town FireChief, and hopefully a CW3+.

 

Also, I will go become a junior volunteer firefighter to help my packet. Is it worth it at this time to spend 5k on a PPL FW single engine?

 

I also just lost my job, how should I use it to my advantage? Ie: Left my job to fully pursue WOFT and to give back to my community, and prepare for the Army?

 

Thanks, if there's a small chance of passing the board, and getting selected, I have to take it.

[akscott60]

Dont use a family member as a LOR. The rest of them sound good. If you are truly jobless, PT and finish this thing off, but it really doesnt sound like you have much left.

 

Its good that they are willing to submit the packet. Get on it.

[Helipilot PTK]

Sorry, I don't have anything to add to your post. But how is your friend in special forces and also in the reserves? I always thought all of the SF and SO have to be active duty. Like the Rangers for example.

[UnitedWeStand111]

Dont use a family member as a LOR. The rest of them sound good. If you are truly jobless, PT and finish this thing off, but it really doesnt sound like you have much left.

 

Its good that they are willing to submit the packet. Get on it.

 

Thank you Sir!

 

No letter from my USMA Father huh? I figured if there was a West Pointer on the board somewhere it would definitely help out. However, I also mentioned it in my "Why I want to be an Army Officer" letter so maybe thats sufficient.

 

I'll continue getting my APFT up, take physical, finish paperwork, and get the best LOR's I can. Any advice for finding an Active Duty CW3-5 to interview me? Is 5 letters enough? I dont want to have too much fluff.

 

Anything else I can do to help offset my mediocre college GPA, moral waiver, and lack of CW3-5 letters?

 

Sorry, I don't have anything to add to your post. But how is your friend in special forces and also in the reserves? I always thought all of the SF and SO have to be active duty. Like the Rangers for example.

 

Maybe he's National Guard SF, I'll ask him. I have a friend who is Active Duty SF, but he will probably call me a panzy if I ask him for a Letter.

 

On a side note, do you think the board will intentionally try to deny my waiver because they want me to enlist?

 

---Lastly, I think the cutoff for the September board is July1st. I still have to go before the battalion level board before I submit my packet correct? hmm, i'll have to find out when that is.

[akscott60]

I just wouldnt think a LOR from someone related to you would be impartial enough is all.

[MarcGoArmy]

This is a killer opportunity for you United! Congrats on that big step, now focus on what you CAN change, namely a strict exercise and diet plan and an awesome essay. I have to think the board sees moral waivers and lack of military LORs from plenty of civilian applicants, but they still seem to select 65%+. Go get em!

[UnitedWeStand111]

I just wouldnt think a LOR from someone related to you would be impartial enough is all.

 

Thank you Sir. I will try to see if my Father can arrange an interview with a high ranking Officer. Most of his West Point buddies are retired, or running companies now, but ill see if I can get something.

 

This is a killer opportunity for you United! Congrats on that big step, now focus on what you CAN change, namely a strict exercise and diet plan and an awesome essay. I have to think the board sees moral waivers and lack of military LORs from plenty of civilian applicants, but they still seem to select 65%+. Go get em!

 

Thank you Sir. Time to give em hell !! Ran my 2 miles today, working everyday to better my packet, as well as myself.

 

I think you are right, and my chances are 0 if I don't apply. Worst case is I get two free looks as a civilian, can always enlist and will still be working towards the dream. Anxiously excited to give this a solid shot. Been thinking about it for a few years now.

 

Going skydiving Friday morning for a morale booster.

 

O yeah, is it worth it to spend 4-5k on a PPL ? Or should I spend 1-2k to raise my RW hours from 4 ->15?

[Helipilot PTK]

I believe it would be in your best interests to get an actual certificate rather than just a couple of rotorcraft hours. IMO it shows the board that you are committed to what you started.

[MarcGoArmy]

You got time for the PPL before you put your packet in?

[Lindsey]

In my opinion, put your packet in first for your first two free looks before you spend any money on anything. If you are FQ-NS both times, you have to wait 6 months to apply again--so THEN you may consider getting a FW PPL during that interim.

[UnitedWeStand111]

I believe it would be in your best interests to get an actual certificate rather than just a couple of rotorcraft hours. IMO it shows the board that you are committed to what you started.

 

True, you are right.

 

You got time for the PPL before you put your packet in?

 

Probably not, I have 3-4 weeks. By the time I get a yes or no on the waiver I might miss the June 29th cutoff for the September board.

 

In my opinion, put your packet in first for your first two free looks before you spend any money on anything. If you are FQ-NS both times, you have to wait 6 months to apply again--so THEN you may consider getting a FW PPL during that interim.

 

Thank you Lindsey, I agree.

 

 

Regarding the moral waiver, my recruiter said (here we go, lmao) that I have to get interviewed by like 6 different people as it goes up the chain. Ie: station level -> Battalion -> company -> etc..

 

Does that sounds right? Also, he said I need to write a letter explaining the situations, how I've changed, etc.. That part makes sense, but 5-6 interviews for one moral waiver seems a bit much. I only needed one for the national guard waiver back in the day.

 

Anyway, I'll know the deal soon enough.

[UnitedWeStand111]

I am thinking of getting a degree from Embry Riddle Aeronautical University in Aviation Business Administration to help with my packet. I emailed them to see how many of my credits transfer from my BS in Business from MSU. Hopefully I could knock it out in a semester, and save the money I was going to spend on a PPL. This would give me 2 BS degrees, allow me to boost my GPA, and its Aviation related so that should help, if I don't get selected with my packet as it stands. Thoughts?

 

btw: Just went skydiving, what a rush !

 

EDIT: Looks like my step bro's Boss is a former Marine Carrier Pilot, and his GF's dad is a JetBlue Pilot. I'd imagine having an Army Aviator would be optimal but would these help?

 

Current/Prospective LOR's

1) DIrector of Company - Friend of family

2) National Guard Special Forces - Neighbor

3) Helo Flight Instructor - R-22

4) Jetblue Pilot

5) Former Marine Pilot

6) ?

 

All this is worthless if my moral waiver doesn't get approved though.

[MarcGoArmy]

I'm curious why the CW5 wasn't willing to help you at all. How do you know him? Active or retired would be a powerful letter. Any idea why he wouldn't?

[Hotdogs]

A degree from ERAU is not going to help improve your packet even if it is aviation related.

[MarcGoArmy]

What's wrong with Embry Riddle? I know a couple people that went there and it's ranked perfectly fine

[Hotdogs]

What's wrong with Embry Riddle? I know a couple people that went there and it's ranked perfectly fine

.

 

The school is fine. Adding a degree in "aviation" probably would not improve his chances as much as he would like. He already has a degree. Aviation degrees are pretty dubious anyways. Trust me I know, I have one. You'd be better served getting a minor in it with a major in business (which he already has). Most colleges require a minimum number of credit hours to be completed at their institution before awarding a degree. Sometimes its 30 hours sometimes it's 60. It just depends on the institution. Time and money would be better spent elsewhere.

 

Have you specifically addressed your criminal actions in your "why I want to be an Army aviator?" the board is going to want to know why and what you are doing to ensure those actions don't happen again. Convince them they were youthful indiscretion.

[UnitedWeStand111]

I'm curious why the CW5 wasn't willing to help you at all. How do you know him? Active or retired would be a powerful letter. Any idea why he wouldn't?

 

He said that I needed to get a letter from an Active Duty CWO, and that he doesn't do interviews for Letters of Recommendation. He's on the Guard side. I sent him my test scores, resume, etc..Maybe he didn't think I was competitive, or didn't want to be bothered.

 

.

 

The school is fine. Adding a degree in "aviation" probably would not improve his chances as much as he would like. He already has a degree. Aviation degrees are pretty dubious anyways. Trust me I know, I have one. You'd be better served getting a minor in it with a major in business (which he already has). Most colleges require a minimum number of credit hours to be completed at their institution before awarding a degree. Sometimes its 30 hours sometimes it's 60. It just depends on the institution. Time and money would be better spent elsewhere.

 

Have you specifically addressed your criminal actions in your "why I want to be an Army aviator?" the board is going to want to know why and what you are doing to ensure those actions don't happen again. Convince them they were youthful indiscretion.

 

Thank you for your advice Sir.

 

I guess I am just wondering how I can improve my packet. Would be nice to completely eliminate weaknesses, but at this point it seems like I need to just submit and hope for the best.

 

Aviation Minor with a 4.0 would be nice, would only cost a few thousand dollars. Where should I spend my money Sir?

 

In my "Why I Want To Be An Army Officer" letter I did mention throughout college I was trying to figure out what I wanted to do, made some foolish errors, and now want the leadership, discipline, etc.. that the Army provides.

 

I also wrote a separate letter for the moral waiver, which goes into more detail about each incident and how I learned from them. Although, I believe my recruiter just sent it up the chain without me giving him either of these letters. I will see if I can submit them tomorrow, because if that waiver gets disapproved I'm shot.

[MarcGoArmy]

Ouch, substantiating documentation would probly be a nice thing to have attached to your waiver. What all DID go up, just the form letter requesting the waiver?

 

Also, if I were you (which I'm not, so take it with a grain of salt), I'd go for more R-22 hours to get that cert. Your experience flying choppers is one not many applicants probably have.

 

Finally, perhaps I misunderstood what was meant by an "aviation" degree from Embry Riddle. Some of their degrees are more valuable, right?

[Gingerw00ki3]

I am thinking of getting a degree from Embry Riddle Aeronautical University in Aviation Business Administration to help with my packet. I emailed them to see how many of my credits transfer from my BS in Business from MSU. Hopefully I could knock it out in a semester, and save the money I was going to spend on a PPL. This would give me 2 BS degrees, allow me to boost my GPA, and its Aviation related so that should help, if I don't get selected with my packet as it stands. Thoughts?

 

btw: Just went skydiving, what a rush !

 

EDIT: Looks like my step bro's Boss is a former Marine Carrier Pilot, and his GF's dad is a JetBlue Pilot. I'd imagine having an Army Aviator would be optimal but would these help?

 

Current/Prospective LOR's

1) DIrector of Company - Friend of family

2) National Guard Special Forces - Neighbor

3) Helo Flight Instructor - R-22

4) Jetblue Pilot

5) Former Marine Pilot

6) ?

 

All this is worthless if my moral waiver doesn't get approved though.

 

From the pilots who I've talked to said that a B.S. in Professional Aeronautics would be substantially better for those looking to get into the seat. Hence why I'm enrolled myself

[Hotdogs]

If I had to set my priorities they would be in this order: Getting good LORs, volunteering (something boards also like to see...and it's easy), bagging some more flight hours, and raising your PT and AFAST scores. That's what I would be doing.

 

 

[UnitedWeStand111]

Ouch, substantiating documentation would probly be a nice thing to have attached to your waiver. What all DID go up, just the form letter requesting the waiver?

 

Also, if I were you (which I'm not, so take it with a grain of salt), I'd go for more R-22 hours to get that cert. Your experience flying choppers is one not many applicants probably have.

 

Finally, perhaps I misunderstood what was meant by an "aviation" degree from Embry Riddle. Some of their degrees are more valuable, right?

 

EDIT: The only that will be sent up tomorrow morning is the Police report, court disposition, letter explaining my mistakes and how I learned from them, and the waiver request itself.

 

From the pilots who I've talked to said that a B.S. in Professional Aeronautics would be substantially better for those looking to get into the seat. Hence why I'm enrolled myself

 

Makes sense, sounds nice too!

 

If I had to set my priorities they would be in this order: Getting good LORs, volunteering (something boards also like to see...and it's easy), bagging some more flight hours, and raising your PT and AFAST scores. That's what I would be doing.

 

OK Sir.

 

Just spoke with recruiter, heading down to MEPS Thursday for the physical.

 

Recruiter says Moral Waiver may take up to 2 months to complete. (all the way up the chain to HRC and back down)

 

If the waiver comes back denied, and I get my APFT over 300, I'm gonna go super high-speed mankiller for a few years. Would probably help just as much if not more than being a mechanic, no?

[heloidaho]

With all these questions, one thing to keep in mind is that there is no magic bullet. The board is made up of individuals with different preferences. One might be anti Embry Riddle for all you know. More rotary hours vs a PPL? Who knows if the board will like one better than the other. Not everyone who comes into aviation from the enlisted side started out in aviation, either.

 

I'd stress less about putting together an "ideal" packet since there is no such thing. Just focus on improving yourself in areas YOU would like and enjoy. It might just turn out to be exactly what the board is looking for. I think that if you go to the board and you are making efforts to be a more educated person and improving your resume in general, you will be just fine.

 

Flight school is filled with all sorts of people with all sorts of backgrounds. I'd bet that no two packets to get to Fort Rucker have ever been the exact same.

 

Good luck! Stay persistent and work hard regardless of which specific choices you make and you'll do great, regardless of any aviation board.

Edited June 11, 2012 by heloidaho

[Yamer]

Are they people there that dont hardly have any aviation time on their resume? I only have intro flight time, 30mins ground and 30mins flight, and about 2 hours of 60 full motion sim time. But im 28 with life experience. My recruiter told me as of lately you have to have your ppl just to be competetive. Anyone at rucker with no prior flight? Maybe a clean slate with knowledge is good for the army to train their way kind of thing?

[akscott60]

There are PLENTY of people here with zero flight time. Dont worry.