280fxColorado Posted April 9, 2012 Report Share Posted April 9, 2012 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helipilot PTK Posted April 9, 2012 Report Share Posted April 9, 2012 R-22 ratio is very reasonable, R-44 backs up its name of being very reliable.Thanks for posting, very interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam32 Posted April 9, 2012 Report Share Posted April 9, 2012 (edited) What's a 269D? A 330/333 maybe? Edited April 9, 2012 by adam32 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
280fxColorado Posted April 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2012 (edited) @PTK - perhaps, but the ratio of R44 fatals to accidents looks not so good. @adam32 - Correct. See Type Certificate Data Sheet 4H12. Edited April 9, 2012 by 280fxColorado Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim_222 Posted April 9, 2012 Report Share Posted April 9, 2012 when it says fatalities, does it mean fatal accidents, or number of people killed? (i.e. an accident that kills two people, would it count as 1 or 2 "fatalities" in the above charts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikemv Posted April 9, 2012 Report Share Posted April 9, 2012 Are these charts showing number of accidents vs. number of 100 airframes produced? If that is so, it does not show how much they are flown per accident or fatality! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helipilot PTK Posted April 9, 2012 Report Share Posted April 9, 2012 @PTK - perhaps, but the ratio of R44 fatals to accidents looks not so good. @adam32 - Correct. See Type Certificate Data Sheet 4H12. I was thinking the same thing. They don't crash as often as most airframes, but if they do say your prayers. From the information given it looks like it is just talking about airframes and not hours flown etc. But I could be wrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arotrhd Posted April 9, 2012 Report Share Posted April 9, 2012 Would be nice to see rate per 100K flight hours for each as another comparison baseline...makes a huge difference in terms of operational tempo, as well as if it's a 1 fatality per 100K or 6 fatalities per 100k. JMHO. -WATCH FOR THE PATTERNS, WATCH FOR THE WIRES- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helipilot PTK Posted April 9, 2012 Report Share Posted April 9, 2012 Also I would like to see the environment they are operating in when the crash happened, AG, Teaching, Longline etc. Is it possible that the big difference in the R-22 and R-44 crash worthiness is the area of operation it is mostly used in? I could be wrong but in my experience the R-44s are used to do more commercial work other than flight training than the R-22, as in photo shoots, transporting people, giving rides etc. And that may cause the helicopter to be operating close to the limits of the aircraft, meaning less forgiving situations and in the shaded regions of the H/V curve. Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gomer Pylot Posted April 10, 2012 Report Share Posted April 10, 2012 Wanting the accidents/fatalities per 100k flight hours won't get it for you. I don't think such data exists, since the FAA doesn't require, nor collect, such data. They have no idea how many hours any Part 91 aircraft flies, nor any Part 135 aircraft that I know of. It's something everyone wants, but nobody can come up with. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightsta1ker Posted April 10, 2012 Report Share Posted April 10, 2012 I bet the insurance companies have that data. Perhaps a few well placed phone calls can get you what you are looking for? Then again... Maybe not. Insurance companies tend to keep their data to themselves. I would venture to say though, that a good way to tell how safe a particular type of aircraft really is would be by it's insurance premium when compared with comparable types. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lelebebbel Posted April 10, 2012 Report Share Posted April 10, 2012 Wanting the accidents/fatalities per 100k flight hours won't get it for you. I don't think such data exists, since the FAA doesn't require, nor collect, such data. They have no idea how many hours any Part 91 aircraft flies, nor any Part 135 aircraft that I know of. It's something everyone wants, but nobody can come up with. The Australians do, although only for Australia obviously. There is an annual mandatory survey for registered aircraft owners here. You have to fill out hours and also break them down between different types of operations (private, aerial work, ag, charter...).Quite an interesting read actually. Out here, Robinsons actually average more hours per airframe than any other helicopter, although this could be different in the US, too. http://www.bitre.gov.au/publications/ongoing/general_aviation_activity.aspx Comparing this to the accident stats creates a bit more useful accident/safety statistic, although there are still problems (for example, pilot experience isn't reported) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
500E Posted April 10, 2012 Report Share Posted April 10, 2012 Would think the No of fatals would be hugely influenced by type of flying, pleasure V commercial & within commercial the use eg. VIP, long line, power, agg, etc.Also the percentage of the individual fleet that is used for riskier work 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goldy Posted April 11, 2012 Report Share Posted April 11, 2012 Agreed! Look at the number of accidents in 500's! Is that because so many operators use them in such hazardous work (powerline patrol, powerline repair, long line). You don't see many operators using R22's for longline! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
500E Posted April 11, 2012 Report Share Posted April 11, 2012 Don't forget the long line (or long tube) Tree surgery When you look there are a lot of 500 used in the pursuit of madness. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightsta1ker Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 Because they are the only airframe you stand a chance of walking away from when you pursue those endeavors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aeroscout Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 Because they are the only airframe you stand a chance of walking away from when you pursue those endeavors.I obviously never want to crash, but if I did, I sure hope I'm flying a 500 when I do. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
500E Posted April 14, 2012 Report Share Posted April 14, 2012 Thats why I have one + it is fast & agile, love itPs. not looking to crash either, but as you say the egg protects you.Goldy have not seen you on the camera recently 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aeroscout Posted April 14, 2012 Report Share Posted April 14, 2012 Thats why I have one + it is fast & agile, love itPs. not looking to crash either, but as you say the egg protects you.Goldy have not seen you on the camer recently Long live the egg, and God save the egg ! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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