I am a new student... tips/help

[BH206L3]

Its a waste of money pure and simple if you are going the civil route. I just cost way to much money and the job market is in the dumpster. The last segment of the economy that is going to recover is aviation. Do it if you must, start making note of every low time pilot job you see advertised , those jobs will become open again in a year or two, and you will have some place to start your job search. If I had to do over, I wouldn't have bothered. For the most part its thankless , hard work for not much reward money wise. Good luck you are going to need it. And if you are going to borrow money for it, well that tells me all I need to know.

[Fred0311]

Don't use your knowledge as power over others is such a great statement. So many times I've seen people not share knowledge because they were afraid it would let someone get promoted over them. In the military that can cost lives. I imagine it's much the same in helicopters.

[Flybull]

Its a waste of money pure and simple if you are going the civil route. I just cost way to much money and the job market is in the dumpster. The last segment of the economy that is going to recover is aviation. Do it if you must, start making note of every low time pilot job you see advertised , those jobs will become open again in a year or two, and you will have some place to start your job search. If I had to do over, I wouldn't have bothered. For the most part its thankless , hard work for not much reward money wise. Good luck you are going to need it. And if you are going to borrow money for it, well that tells me all I need to know.

.

 

Alrighty, then.......

 

If it's so horrible, just jump out of it and open a spot for someone who appreciates it. I hear McDonalds has some real cute uniforms......

[CO423]

Its a waste of money pure and simple if you are going the civil route. I just cost way to much money and the job market is in the dumpster. The last segment of the economy that is going to recover is aviation. Do it if you must, start making note of every low time pilot job you see advertised , those jobs will become open again in a year or two, and you will have some place to start your job search. If I had to do over, I wouldn't have bothered. For the most part its thankless , hard work for not much reward money wise. Good luck you are going to need it. And if you are going to borrow money for it, well that tells me all I need to know.

I asked for positive feedback. I understand kinda/sorta what you are trying to say. But I know some are successful and others are not. I'm sorry you regret flying helicopters, that must be awful...

[nightsta1ker]

Its a waste of money pure and simple if you are going the civil route. I just cost way to much money and the job market is in the dumpster. The last segment of the economy that is going to recover is aviation. Do it if you must, start making note of every low time pilot job you see advertised , those jobs will become open again in a year or two, and you will have some place to start your job search. If I had to do over, I wouldn't have bothered. For the most part its thankless , hard work for not much reward money wise. Good luck you are going to need it. And if you are going to borrow money for it, well that tells me all I need to know.

 

I know this is going to sound rude, but I am honestly not surprised your career is not doing well with an attitude like that. If you thought flying helicopters was going to be easy and you were going to be swimming in money, you definitely got lied to or had some misconceptions about the biz. Most of us do it because we love the job, not because it's glamorous or pays well.

[cryesis]

im suprised you even browse a forum such as this one with an attitude like that twords the field

[aeroscout]

There are some economic and financial harsh truths in this indusrty. It's just a fact. If you think flying (especially heolos) alone will bring you to financially living happily ever after, I think you are operating very far out of reality. Don't get down on a guy for pointing out a cold hard fact.

[nightsta1ker]

There are some economic and financial harsh truths in this indusrty. It's just a fact. If you think flying (especially heolos) alone will bring you to financially living happily ever after, I think you are operating very far out of reality. Don't get down on a guy for pointing out a cold hard fact.

 

I'm not getting down on him for pointing out a fact, I'm getting down on him for being a negative nancy. That right there will keep you out of a job for sure. No one wants to hire a prima-donna who is constantly grumpy about the job. I know a guy who was an instructor at my school who was constantly whining and complaining about pay and was generally a jerk. The kind of guy you could tell was just using instructing as a stepping stone to another job. He got picked up touring the ditch in Nevada and he basically gave everyone at the school the finger and left. Now that the season is over, he's back up here. I doubt the school will want him back after his antics, and I suspect he's not getting another season down in Nevada because of his bad attitude. If you want to keep doors open, you have to stay positive.

 

This is off topic, but seriously, what is the matter with people these days??? Our grandparents had to deal with the Great Depression and WWII and they did it without a wimper. They just grit their teeth and did what needed to be done. People these days have this sense of entitlement. Like everything should be handed to them. When are we (as a society) going to realize that we actually have to WORK to make a living. It's just as hard getting a job outside of the helicopter industry as it is in. There is a lot of unemployment out there. You can sit around and complain about it, or you can find what you can, and work your butt off until things get better.

[cryesis]

There's no unemployment crisis, look around at all the help wanted signs.....there's a shortage of people willing to take any job. Remember $8 an hour beats $0 an hour. Spending money on helicopter training won't guarantee you a job, neither will a college degree.

[eagle5]

I remember once while in my car with a freind, Metallica's "One" came over the radio. My friend reached over and switched the channel, to which I said, "What up dude, that's a great song?". He replied, "My parents only allow me to listen to "positive" music!"

 

Just because a person points out the negative side of life doesn't mean he has a bad attitude! Thanks BH206L3 for the realistic warning!

[nightsta1ker]

There's no unemployment crisis, look around at all the help wanted signs.....there's a shortage of people willing to take any job. Remember $8 an hour beats $0 an hour. Spending money on helicopter training won't guarantee you a job, neither will a college degree.

 

Hmm... where do you live? Maybe we should move half the people from my state to where you are at...

[BH206L3]

Just because I said flying for the most part is thankless dose not mean there its not personally rewarding. While I would not have gone and done the transition to helicopters, I was and am an airplane guy, I did it just the same. Hey I got to park a 206 next to a river full or red salmon and I got to fish a lot, there are rewards to the profession, just not a whole lot of money to do it.

 

When it comes to borrowing money for this, I think taking a second job or go work on contract some place for a few years and then go to flight school is better from a financial stand point. Right now I fly a King Air and a helicopter for an Individual, most pilots I know would not even touch the job because of pay and on call 24/7. But I enjoy the job, the boss is the boss and well I get along better with the rest of the family. Mostly I am just chauffeur, and I do drive them a bit when they want to go into the city. Not carrying any kind of debt gives me an edge here.

 

I don't know how you are going to finance your training, have you given some thought to what its really going to cost you? As I understand it, its about 55 to 65 K to go from 0 to CFII in helicopters these days. Sit down with a good accountant, because I can tell you, I make a reasonable amount of money I could not afford a 65 K note right now. I been flying for almost 40 years now. I seen ups and I seen downs, and aviation is as down as I had ever seen it. Its a very tough market. Flight Schools are in business of selling flight training, I know it well I owned a flight school and a charter company and a few other things, I was happy for the most part with a 3% profit on gross sales. That is the problem with aviation, most businesses in the industry are really working or razor thin margins. As you know aircraft are not cheap, and just one little ding could eat up a years profit. I will tell you about what a little prop strike did, that one of my employees when and did, dumb thing, he was young and you couldn't tell him anything, nor would he listen to some sage advise. That hurt me more that I would know at the time, 9/11 was just a few months out.

[Pohi]

There are some economic and financial harsh truths in this indusrty. It's just a fact. If you think flying (especially heolos) alone will bring you to financially living happily ever after, I think you are operating very far out of reality. Don't get down on a guy for pointing out a cold hard fact.

 

A pilot probably won't get rich, but as long as I can pay my bills and afford to enjoy my off time, I'm happy.

[cryesis]

Hmm... where do you live? Maybe we should move half the people from my state to where you are at...

 

new york, not far from the city, most convience stores and fast food places have help wanted sign s up

 

As for the financial situation, I agree with not putting yourself in debt and the general idea I've gotten from speaking to various people is that if you can afford to do the flight training while your young, before you get a family and real responsibilities your better off then trying to chase your dreams later on in life when you have to put money into other responsibilities. I happen to be very fortunate in that my parents will fund my education

Edited April 30, 2012 by cryesis

[nightsta1ker]

BH206L3: I see your point. Your second post is much more enlightening than your first. Providing some background and insight definitely takes the hard edge off your first post. I retract my remark and apologize. It just sounded to me like you were a jilted Robbie Ranger who thought being a helicopter pilot was going to be his key to women and riches. I've seen many of those types over the years. Most of them don't wind up doing very well.

[Spike]

I could be wrong, but in the original post, no where is there a mention of the cost of training nor the concern about helicopter pilot pay…..

 

In any case, only a fool would believe they’d become wealthy flying helicopters for a living. Does this fact need repeating over and over again? Maybe….. However, low pay isn’t the only downside of this business. What about;

 

No jobs? Sounds crazy, but to spend thousands of dollars to gain a skill for an occupation which has very few jobs available doesn’t seem like a very good idea. However, what kind of job is readily available that didn’t require any skill whatsoever? Oh yeah, McDonalds……

 

The gypsy lifestyle? Moving around to go where the work is, is normal in this business… If you don’t like moving, maybe consider that McDonalds job that’s probably just a few miles from where you live now….

 

The divorce rate? Coupled with the low pay and gypsy lifestyle, maintaining a relationship is difficult. In the aviation business, it’s affectionately known as A.I.D.S…. Aviation Induced Divorce Syndrome. If you have a wife and that wife supports your career goals, consider yourself blessed. To my knowledge, no one has coined the phrase M.I.D.S. for McDonalds Induced Divorce Syndrome…. Yet…

 

Going to funerals? Colleagues’ will die flying helicopters. If you think you may have some sort of physiological affliction with this, know this…. Employee fatalities are a rare event at a McDonalds….

 

Crashing? Helicopter pilots are human, which means you are human. Humans make mistakes and sometimes crash helicopters. If you don’t think you can handle the trauma and paperwork associated with a crash, then rest assured, McDonalds has a very low accident rate….

 

The noise? Helicopters are extremely loud. No matter what precautions you take, as a career pilot, hearing damage will occur. However, the decibel levels at a McDonalds will not render you deaf after flipping burgers for 30 years…

 

The HAZMAT. Av-gas, Jet-A, 5606, Mobil Jet are all classified as HAZMAT and as a pilot, in some form-or-fashion, your body will have contact with these chemicals. The upside is; cancer is not the number one killer of helicopter pilots. The downside is; all HAZMAT materials are hazardous to your health. That’s why their called HAZMAT…. McDonalds HAZMAT policy consists of 2 paragraphs on one page and it mostly has to do with the Ajax cleaning product used to clean the McDonalds PlayPlace…..

 

Decapitation? Yes rare, but people have been decapitated while employed as helicopter pilots. Training should prevent this occurrence but unfortunately as mentioned above, mistakes can happen. Probably, the only time you’d lose you head at McDonalds is when you’re assigned to clean the PlayPlace structure……

 

Death. A occupational hazard of flying for a living can be death. There are tons of people who are dedicated to increasing the level of safety in the aviation industry but the reality is; death will continue to occur. However and thankfully, it’s not as dangerous as working as a night-shift clerk at the local stop-n-rob…. Death can occur at McDonalds. Tragically, a crazy man once took out 22 people at a McDonalds and this is nothing to scoff at…..

 

With all of this doom-and-gloom of flying helicopters for a living is it really worth it? For me it is…..

Edited April 30, 2012 by Spike

[nightsta1ker]

Despite all these things, your chances of getting turned into raspberry jelly on the freeway while en route to the airport are still greater than you getting cancer from hazmat exposure or crashing a helicopter.

 

 

[SBuzzkill]

Drive conservatively/defensively and your chances of living go up considerably.

[CO423]

Well as far as money goes, if you have noticed I have not mentioned anything about it. I am not rich and NO i cannot afford to get as much school as possible. I work & I have worked full time since before I was legal to. Not too mention I so have some support, thankfully.

 

This is a goal, a goal to get rich? NO. Although I do plan on making an ok income in ten years or whatever it may take, and to help my community and individuals when the time comes. You only live once, and flying is quite the opportunity and privlidge in my opinion. I know that there are jobs out there that pay quite well, NOW correct me if I am wrong. I fully understand the competitiveness in this industry, which makes the goal a strong goal to make this a career. I am somewhat young and the price to become a commercial pilot is very expensive, but in the long run I truly see it paying off if I can pull it off.

Once again I appreciate every comment made, yes even the "negative" side. The truth hurts sometimes.

Although I know that there are successful pilots. It is quite a skillful industry, and I just sure hope I can meet up to this goal. I know that I can. Understanding that the road can get rocky at times, I understand. I am a pretty simple person and sure do not expect to "get rich", this is doing what I want to do, a dream, a goal. I hope others can relate.

To be honest I quit my dream job running heavy equipment for VAIL ski resort on a mountain, and working on gondola towers all day on a mountain. The ski industry is an industry that does not pay very well, and I do have experience in this. I am currently working a very pitiful job at "Camping World" that I just started, and it sucks. But I have a goal, which makes me not care about what I am doing currently. I can always go back to the ski industry, but one day I sure hope to go back into the ski industry in a chopper (a goal but not for my entire career). I have grown up in colorado doing everything except for flying, which now I am.

 

Just an update I have been in the air a few times, and have been studying certain topics and basics. I truly am enjoying although I see this getting very pricey! SO I completely understand all of these comments and topics that we have covered. Although at the same time I see myself getting much further much quicker than if I stay with the ski industry, or similar local work. Understand I have grown up in a small ski town type setting with a SERIOUS work ethic, and this is a HUGE goal for me which many of my past employers are proud of me for making this decision. Some of the guys I worked with also are enrolled in a heli school and really helped make this decision. Some work at the mountain and have goals in this industry, so it's not really "common" for this to happen, but I am not the only one that is working towards this industry from the ski industry background.

 

GOOD DAY!

[nightsta1ker]

Drive conservatively/defensively and your chances of living go up considerably.

 

I've been in two wrecks in my life. Both times I was hit by someone else, neither time was I any way at fault. Just the luck of the draw I guess....

[nightsta1ker]

Well as far as money goes, if you have noticed I have not mentioned anything about it. I am not rich and NO i cannot afford to get as much school as possible. I work & I have worked full time since before I was legal to. Not too mention I so have some support, thankfully.

 

This is a goal, a goal to get rich? NO. Although I do plan on making an ok income in ten years or whatever it may take, and to help my community and individuals when the time comes. You only live once, and flying is quite the opportunity and privlidge in my opinion. I know that there are jobs out there that pay quite well, NOW correct me if I am wrong. I fully understand the competitiveness in this industry, which makes the goal a strong goal to make this a career. I am somewhat young and the price to become a commercial pilot is very expensive, but in the long run I truly see it paying off if I can pull it off.

Once again I appreciate every comment made, yes even the "negative" side. The truth hurts sometimes.

Although I know that there are successful pilots. It is quite a skillful industry, and I just sure hope I can meet up to this goal. I know that I can. Understanding that the road can get rocky at times, I understand. I am a pretty simple person and sure do not expect to "get rich", this is doing what I want to do, a dream, a goal. I hope others can relate.

To be honest I quit my dream job running heavy equipment for VAIL ski resort on a mountain, and working on gondola towers all day on a mountain. The ski industry is an industry that does not pay very well, and I do have experience in this. I am currently working a very pitiful job at "Camping World" that I just started, and it sucks. But I have a goal, which makes me not care about what I am doing currently. I can always go back to the ski industry, but one day I sure hope to go back into the ski industry in a chopper (a goal but not for my entire career). I have grown up in colorado doing everything except for flying, which now I am.

 

Just an update I have been in the air a few times, and have been studying certain topics and basics. I truly am enjoying although I see this getting very pricey! SO I completely understand all of these comments and topics that we have covered. Although at the same time I see myself getting much further much quicker than if I stay with the ski industry, or similar local work. Understand I have grown up in a small ski town type setting with a SERIOUS work ethic, and this is a HUGE goal for me which many of my past employers are proud of me for making this decision. Some of the guys I worked with also are enrolled in a heli school and really helped make this decision. Some work at the mountain and have goals in this industry, so it's not really "common" for this to happen, but I am not the only one that is working towards this industry from the ski industry background.

 

GOOD DAY!

 

There definitely is a lot to think about. As you have probably gathered from my collection of posts on this thread, it can be a long and winding road. Just don't lose sight of it. Keep working towards it. No one ever got anywhere by daydreaming, and no one ever became a helicopter pilot by letting people talk them out of it.

[Spike]

CO423,

 

Sounds like you’re on the right track….. Keep it up… And, there are jobs out here which do pay well… Just like everything else in this business, the trick is to find that job and get that job….

 

Good luck…

Edited May 2, 2012 by Spike

[BenWA]

OP, congrats on being committed to starting training. I'm a low time student (about 26 hours now). My advice from what I know so far is the more often you can fly and think about flying the better. I learned how to fly airplanes more than 10 years ago when I was in graduate school, and it was a very laid back lifestyle at the time. I had no job, no more classes at school to deal with, no daily schedule of any kind... I was just finishing up my master's thesis at a leisurely pace, which afforded me more than enough time to daydream about flying, read up on all the aviation forums, read aviation books, magazines, watch flying videos, etc, etc, anything I could do to soak it all in to keep my mind on flying, flying, flying.

 

Nowadays, since I have started transitioning to helicopters, I have a busy job that accounts for 50-60 hours per week (frequently requiring me to be out of town for weeks at a time), a needy girlfriend who wants me to spend every second of my spare time with her , and an invention that I am trying to develop on the side. I only have time to fly once per week, twice if I'm really lucky. I can tell you that in my current lifestyle it is MUCH harder for me to focus on flying, flying, flying. And it is MUCH less efficient than when I was learning to fly airplanes in grad school. The fact that my attention is divided among so many other things in life makes the time between flying lessons seem distortedly longer than it actually is, and I feel that I get rusty much quicker.

 

So what am I saying with all this rambling on about myself? I'm suggesting that you do whatever you can to minimize the "noise" of you non-flying life, and to fly as frequently as possible (3 days per week would be ideal), because you will be wasting a lot of time and money unnecessarily if you let all those others kinds of distractions clutter your subconscious and keep you rusty. The ability to truly go all-in and focus on nothing but flying will go a long way in keeping training costs and time to a minimum. Best of luck and welcome to the aviation world!

[CO423]

Thanks again guys.

Excellent advice.

Exactly what I was looking for when I started this post.

 

 

Heli succes 2012, I have tickets. Anyone else going?