Yamer's WOFT progress!!!

[Yamer]

HI EVERYONE!!! Im currently setting up my route through the guard as i have a family and two children now making active duty woft just not an option for me. My wife and I deided that by doing the guard i can hopefully stay local here in arizona as much as possible.

 

Ive read these forums up and down as well as a few other forums and there isnt much talk about the guard. One person said they knew someone that went to basic then ait for another mos then to wocs and woft all in a row for the guard. If i have a unit that wants me there as a pilot can i be streamlined into woft "sponsered" by that unit? and then be assigned to that unit when i graduate? The most common im hearing is that you join the guard and spend a year or so as a heli mechanic and then apply with ur packet. I can do that but ultimately i want to join to fly not turn wrenches. Just want to get as much info as i can before i start laying out my route. Any more information for me or a referral to someone you know that can help would be greatly appreciated.

 

-Chad

 

P.s., sorry for any gramatical errors, im doing this from my phone.

Edited July 12, 2012 by Yamer

[CharyouTree]

Pick a job you wouldn't mind doing for a bit, or even for all of your enlistment. You never know what could happen. While aviation is a good place to be, so you can be seen by the right people, and it will give you a foot in the door, not all of the pilots come from aviation. Though, I will say it seems like all of the warrants that I know in my unit were aviation prior to going pilot, I think it may have more to do with they're the ones who are around to figure out how it's done, and someone from say the engineers is apt to just think "I have no idea how to go about this, forget it" and move on. It's by no means a requirement.

 

If Arizona isn't hard up for pilots, they're not likely to go out of their way to make special exceptions for you to attend flight school in the manner you're looking for.

 

Being as you said you've already done a bunch of reading around here, I won't bother telling you that even as guard, flight school is going to be 18-24 months (or more!) of your life spent in Alabama, with or without your family. I don't know firsthand, but I understand if you have a family, it's hard whether they're here, or not. If I WAS to remind you of that, I also wouldn't be doing it just to make sure you know what you're getting into, so there are no surprises.

 

Good luck, and welcome

[Yamer]

Hey thanks yeah we are familiar with the process of woft and wocs and the time away from home for that but our thing is being active duty and getting stationed in germany or korea or something crazy like that... after school id like to be in az unless deployed to war.. i have a meeting with a friend of mine who is a warrant over the mechanics here in southern az. Hopefully he can help get me some info, maybe even get me to the man in charge that i can impress enough to pull some strings so to speak. Even if he cant help much at least i can get some great lor's and see what happens.

[Yamer]

Ok well talked it over with the family and it looks like we are gonna do the active duty route street to seat. We came up with a question i have seen on here before and was hoping to get input from a current or recent participant of rucker. When you go street to seat, do you sign up and go to regular army basic then wocs then woft or just straight to wocs and woft. Also, not that i wanna even think about it but i sorta have to. What happens if i wash out of wocs or woft, then what, no army commitment or pick another job im stuck in??? Anybody have expedience witnessing this or going through it? Thanks again everyone!!!

[heloidaho]

You go to Basic, then to WOCS, then BOLC, Dunker, SERE, and all the rest of the flight school pipeline.

 

Warrant Officers that flunk out are typically discharged from the Army.

[Yamer]

Cool thank you for the info. Ill google search the schools to find out about them. What is the typical failure rate for people? Like i said im kinda asking for my wife, its her concern as im not planning on failing lol

[Yamer]

I do my posting from my phone, lmao i just read my post. Expedience is supposed to be experience and i have not seen these questions on here before. Lol sorry for the typos guys

[Yamer]

im looking at this ARCO study guide... http://www.usarec.army.mil/hq/warrant/download/militaryflight.pdf

 

am i missing the all mighty complex movements section everyone always says to memorize cause briefly going over the section on page 275 it seems pretty easy and straight forward. whats the hard part about it that we should be memorizing. or just practice doing it and looking at the answers that are in the key right in front of you? did i get the wrong arco guide?

[CharyouTree]

It IS fairly easy and straightforward. However, the time constraints limit the time you have available to sort it out. So, you should practice until it's easy, and you don't make silly mistakes. (Like thinking the more horizontal arrow moves it left/right, etc). If you can do the practice tests easily and quickly, good on ya. But, it's not so much that it's HARD, as it takes time to sort it out. Especially if it's the "first" time you're seeing it. (Even though everyone is required to acknowledge that they received the practice pamphlet and had ample time to review it.)

[heloidaho]

The failure rate is really low, and the majority of people that don't make it are booted for things other than academic reasons. If you work hard and do well academically, but struggle in the cockpit, they even give hours awards. More time to learn. From my original WOCS class that graduated in spring of 2011, we have only lost one person out of about 80 of us that came to flight school.

 

He didn't have high academic grades. He had gotten a "progress ride" (basically a pre-check ride) for the very first check ride he had. Then he failed his end of primary check ride and wasn't awarded additional hours. But I know far more people who have gotten progress rides, or failed, and gotten hours awards. They pass and join the class behind them and move on.

 

In primary we had one LT get the boot because he pretty much gave up. His heart wasn't in it and he hadn't started studying before flight school started. He didn't even study during TH-67 systems class. Then when they assigned things to memorize every night at the flightline, he threw in the towel and went to the doctor for anxiety. Then he was grounded. If he had wanted to be here, he could have just avoided the doctor and worked through it and been fine.

 

Don't fail PT, keep your academics up, and you'll be fine.

 

I had a lot of anxiety before I came down here. A good buddy of mine told me this: "Imagine the dumbest person you know--the biggest box of rocks type of guy. Now, just keep in mind that they graduated flight school last week."

 

It has held true. There are very few rocket scientist guys down here. Everyone works at it and has to study, but it isn't cosmic. But it really is just a group of normal people who like helicopters and want to learn to fly them.

 

Tell your wife she can help you study and you'll do great. Heck, I wish I had a wife so she could quiz me on my limits and emergency procedures for the 64! Maybe even after she cooked me some dinner.

[akscott60]

Hey hey hey. Other services read this forum. We are the smartest and most talented rotary wing aviators in the world.

[Vaelor]

Best looking, too.

 

[Lindsey]

Best looking, too.

 

 

Duh, I'm joining for all the hot studs.

 

[SBuzzkill]

HAHA

[Yamer]

thanks for all in input everyone!!! glad to know i will contribute TREMENDOUSLY to the good looking part of the group of army aviators at some point down the road.

 

if anyone took their wife to rucker with them, my wife would like to know if there was anything anyone wished they knew before hand either about base living or living off base as a family. we have two girls 3 and 5 and my wife and I. when i get in and get to woft they'll be moving out there with me. anybody's wives or husband for lindsey's sake learn anything along the way they wish they'd known before hand in order to do it differently or prepare better for life stuff...

 

i know its hard to try to predict and plan everything without doing it and there will be plenty of choices made while doing it but as much as we can learn and prepare for the better.

 

 

now... time to find a recruiter that will even call me back. apperently in tucson when you tell a recruiter you want to start the testing for woft street to seat and you want nothing else he runs and cowers and doesnt call you back... LOL be safe out there everyone

Edited June 14, 2012 by Yamer

[SBuzzkill]

My wife says she wished she knew "that it's hot as f*ck."

 

And to take pictures of everything wrong with your house if you're renting when you move in. All of the realty places down there will rip you off on damages when you move out. They dinged us on little marks on the walls saying "we had to repaint", or that there were pullup bar marks on the doors when I've never in my life had one, etc. Most places wont do the walkthrough until days after you turn the key in, which for everyone I know was the day we skipped town.

 

Everyone goes down to Panama City for the beach, but there's tons of other cool beaches and towns to visit down there. Try and get to those instead.

Edited June 15, 2012 by SBuzzkill

[d10]

The failure rate is really low, and the majority of people that don't make it are booted for things other than academic reasons. If you work hard and do well academically, but struggle in the cockpit, they even give hours awards. More time to learn. From my original WOCS class that graduated in spring of 2011, we have only lost one person out of about 80 of us that came to flight school.

 

He didn't have high academic grades. He had gotten a "progress ride" (basically a pre-check ride) for the very first check ride he had. Then he failed his end of primary check ride and wasn't awarded additional hours.

 

It's good that they're actually weeding a few guys out now. That didn't happen in the past. Sorry if that sounds cold, but some guys just don't make good pilots, and they're an incredible drain on a unit's training resources when they get pushed through flight school anyway.

[heloidaho]

Sorry if that sounds cold, but some guys just don't make good pilots, and they're an incredible drain on a unit's training resources when they get pushed through flight school anyway.

 

You'll find no argument from me on that one. There are people who are a drain on flight school and strive for the minimum, and I doubt it gets better at the unit level.

[akscott60]

You'll find no argument from me on that one. There are people who are a drain on flight school and strive for the minimum, and I doubt it gets better at the unit level.

 

I dont honestly remember people doing the bare minimum except for the foreign students, well, some of them. I do know guys that busted their asses only to not make it.

 

Its not for everyone. And by not actually having a % of people get eliminated, I believe we do ourselves a disservice.

 

My dad is a retired USMC fighter pilot, and he said they lost guys in all phases of flight school.

[Hotdogs]

Some of my good friends were told "thanks for trying out" and other friends tapped out and threw in the towel early on. Our grading system is based on a curve so there is always a bottom and top student. The Navy and Marines don't keep the bottom of the bottom (bottom 3-7%) because studies have shown that those students tend to fail their aircraft commander checks in the fleet and do not progress. It's done for a reason.

[CharyouTree]

Some of my good friends were told "thanks for trying out" and other friends tapped out and threw in the towel early on. Our grading system is based on a curve so there is always a bottom and top student. The Navy and Marines don't keep the bottom of the bottom (bottom 3-7%) because studies have shown that those students tend to fail their aircraft commander checks in the fleet and do not progress. It's done for a reason.

 

Sadly, we seem to prefer the method of throwing good money after bad. "Well...we've already spent X on him... We wouldn't want that to be a waste, would we?"

 

We had one a few months back that was definitely not pilot material. Slew of reasons. Failed checkrides, progression rides with higher stands, set back in training to another class... there was still worry that he was going to get yet MORE time, and the guys who were his IPs would get in trouble because the reasons that he sucked weren't documented well enough, and there were some minor discrepancies between his digital and paper records. It's almost like presenting a case to a jury, instead of something as simple as "he doesn't have what it takes, it's time to send him home".

[Adsfbike]

Couple quick questions. It is my understanding that your family can join you during flight training. Is that correct? Also what about WOCS and if I go to germany or Alaska etc can they come with me? Also how hard is it to go to Germany, is there high demand? Thanks for any answers. Sorry if posted in wrong area.

[d10]

Couple quick questions. It is my understanding that your family can join you during flight training. Is that correct? Also what about WOCS and if I go to germany or Alaska etc can they come with me? Also how hard is it to go to Germany, is there high demand? Thanks for any answers. Sorry if posted in wrong area.

 

Yes to the family questions. I don't know what the demand for Germany is but it doesn't really matter. Assignments are mostly based off of what's open when you're ready to PCS. HRC focuses on moving people in and out of 3-4 units at any given time. If Germany is one of those open units, you have a good chance of going there, if not you'll be going somewhere else.

[Adsfbike]

Yes to the family questions. I don't know what the demand for Germany is but it doesn't really matter. Assignments are mostly based off of what's open when you're ready to PCS. HRC focuses on moving people in and out of 3-4 units at any given time. If Germany is one of those open units, you have a good chance of going there, if not you'll be going somewhere else.

Hey I appreciate your help on this matter. That is my Wife's biggest concern being away from me for a long time. Thanks again sir.

[Adsfbike]

Ok well talked it over with the family and it looks like we are gonna do the active duty route street to seat. We came up with a question i have seen on here before and was hoping to get input from a current or recent participant of rucker. When you go street to seat, do you sign up and go to regular army basic then wocs then woft or just straight to wocs and woft. Also, not that i wanna even think about it but i sorta have to. What happens if i wash out of wocs or woft, then what, no army commitment or pick another job im stuck in??? Anybody have expedience witnessing this or going through it? Thanks again everyone!!!

 

Keep us posted on your progress. I am also in AZ. Think I found a recruiter who will play ball. Good luck to you.