Yamer's WOFT progress!!!

[Yamer]

oh yeah i found i recruiter last week... down here in tucson. really super guy, unlike some of the others in the office. seemed like most of the other sgt.'s in the office were VERY negative and oh you dont have an associates degree? you dont have a private pilot cert? you'll never make it or get accepted... they even tried the whole "when this comes back as a NO from the local batallion board are going to willing to enlist?"

 

i finally told them, look, this is what i want to do and this will be all im signing a contract for, i have a family and kids to think about also here, are you saying you wont help me because you think i'll come back as a no? if so ill go to another recruiting office somewhere else...

 

luckily my recruiter was able to see past the other guys bs and was willing to work with me and do it... aside from that i met the SFC of the office today, he was very proactive and willing to help me do anything and everything possible to get my packet submitted and complete. he even asked me once, if you go to meps and dont pass the afast, then what. i told him, "i wait six months and try again" so he says, youre willing to wait six months and try again just to do this? i told him like i had told the others in the office, this is what i want to do, this is the only route ill be doing it. he gave me an impressed look and went back to his desk to further work on my packet.

 

stick to your guns and stick to what you want, no matter what they say guys and a few girls around here...

 

i go to MEPS july 12 and 13 in phx... we are going to the AUGUST 10 local board. if that passes which im hoping it will, i'll be at the sept 10th usarec board.

 

now, back to studying for the next step in this process, meps/afast/asvab... ill keep everyone informed as i know it

 

oh, also, i dont know if everyone knew already but this process changed from ARNG to street to seat active duty

 

on a side note, i did 3 hours in a UH-60 simulator last week too... WOWOWOWOWOWOWOW that was the best thing i've ever done in my life to this point... the coolest civilian contractor IP was in it with me and basically taught me everything... also, said i can fly instruments better than some of the current guard pilots he's got now.. lol i told him that's because you are telling me everything i need to do.

he had to pry me out of that seat cause he had to go to an appointment, otherwise i think i coulda been in there for 12 hours straight just fliying and teaching myself some skills... what an experience...

[Yamer]

ok ok someone explain this to me please....

 

since when is moderate to strong winds more favorable than little or no wind for helicopter flight...

 

 

87. The correct answer is (A). The most favorable

conditions for helicopter performance are the combination

of a low-density altitude, light gross weight,

and moderate to strong winds. The most adverse

conditions are the combination of a high-density

altitude, heavy gross weight, and calm or no wind.

Any other combination of density altitude, gross

weight, and wind conditions fall somewhere between

the most adverse conditions and the most favorable

conditions.

 

does the high winds aid in providing lift?

[d10]

That might be a poorly written question, since there are obviously plenty of situations where no wind is "favorable" to moderate-strong winds (If I'm flying from NY to LA, I want to get there as soon as possible, and winds are out of the west like they nearly always are in the US, I'm hoping for the calmest winds possible).

 

If you're trying to take off or land a helicopter, moderate-strong winds will give you a greater power margin than calm winds because as you said, you will have more lift. You could maybe even come to a hover but still be above ETL if the winds are strong enough. It can be particularly dangerous trying to land a helicopter with a narrow power margin when the winds are light and variable, because you may be planning on calm winds or a 2-3 knot head wind but you end up landing with a 2-3 knot tail wind. With a stronger wind it's easier to determine where the winds are from and they're unlikely to change direction during your approach.

 

Even on landings though, high winds could still be unfavorable if it gets really extreme, turbulent, or if they're flowing around terrain features that are going to make your approach more difficult. But if you're planning on being around Army Aviation for a while this is an important lesson to learn: Don't make questions complicated if you know what the person asking wants to hear. And this is a common question that gets asked whenever someone wants to highlight the importance of winds as they affect power on takeoffs and landings, so just go with moderate-strong>light-calm.

[CharyouTree]

Don't make questions complicated if you know what the person asking wants to hear. And this is a common question that gets asked whenever someone wants to highlight the importance of winds as they affect power on takeoffs and landings, so just go with moderate-strong>light-calm.

 

I had to deal with that today; mal-anal on daily questions. (After eng chip, oil pressure, etc etc came on)

 

Student "Engine Failure"

"....Look at the torque, TGT, RPM2...."

Student "Well...It's going to fail soon"

"...Don't make this complicated. You know the game." (I still think he was just trying to cover for getting it wrong.)

[Hotdogs]

does the high winds aid in providing lift?

 

Everything that D10 said.

 

I'd throw in to just be aware of winds. It can really bite you in the butt if you fail to account for it. Like the loss of wind effect coming into an LZ or near the top of the mountain ridge. Also landing with a tailwind (stupid) can cause weather cocking and increase your TQ requirement if you try to pull into a hover by dancing on the pedals. It is possible in some helos to over TQ by putting in a little pedal in the wrong direction and not accounting for the winds.

 

The question is pretty weak. Obviously Low DA and low gross weight are the most favorable. Never will a high DA and high gross weight ever by favorable. Unless you have an ungodly amount of power like 53 dudes.

[Adsfbike]

 

oh, also, i dont know if everyone knew already but this process changed from ARNG to street to seat active duty

 

Good to hear on your progress! I'll hopefully be ready for the following board myself. I want to make sure I am at 300 on my physical side and kill it on the tests. What process are you talking about that changed?

[Yamer]

Just that i started this thread thinking i could go street to seat in the acti e full time guard. That isnt possible so i had to flip to active duty army. Didnt mind it much but its a little harder on the wife and kids.

 

Thanks for answering my question guys that helps me out a bunch. Better focus on reading slower and thinking ever so slightly more before answering questions

[Adsfbike]

Just that i started this thread thinking i could go street to seat in the acti e full time guard. That isnt possible so i had to flip to active duty army. Didnt mind it much but its a little harder on the wife and kids.

 

Thanks for answering my question guys that helps me out a bunch. Better focus on reading slower and thinking ever so slightly more before answering questions

Just that i started this thread thinking i could go street to seat in the acti e full time guard. That isnt possible so i had to flip to active duty army. Didnt mind it much but its a little harder on the wife and kids.

 

Thanks for answering my question guys that helps me out a bunch. Better focus on reading slower and thinking ever so slightly more before answering questions

Gotcha, I'm in the same boat man, at least she is super supportive so that helps.

[Yamer]

well crud...

 

just got a call from a 1st Sgt who said he was in charge of all the recruiting stations in Tucson. Tried yet again to get me to go enlisted first. answer is NO still lol its just not an option for me 1st Sgt. so then he proceeded to say basically that he doesn't think ill be competitive enough to be selected so he's not going to waste the NCO hours of his recruiters to process my packet and help me complete my process... im confuesd because both the recruiter i had and the 1st sgt that was in the office were all for my packet and willing to help me so it seems kinda weird to me.

 

time to find a new recruiter yet again i think... even if they decide oh yeah ok we'll do your packet, at this point its hard to trust them now.

 

is this what the army has come to now?

does submitting a packet with 6 flight hours, 4 of which are in a 60 simulator, and no associates degree but 55 college hours (no gen eds just public safety stuff towards my fire science degree) make me un-competitive? really? why aren't those a requirement to do the process then??? im at a loss today. put a call in to a new recruiting station in casa grande which is just as far from my house than tucson is so we'll see what they say when they call back. if they even call back. i left a message asking to speak to someone regarding woft so them calling back might be iffy at best.

 

can a civilian go to meps or take the afast and asvab without the recruiters help whatsoever? basically schedule everything myself without them

Edited July 4, 2012 by Yamer

[christopherdubya]

Be thankful that you are having a hard time with recruiters. This only makes itneasier once you are boarded. By them doing what most recruiters are doing,it weeds out canidates that otherwise might be more competitive than you. If all the people that wanted to put in a packet did, im sure the selection rate for civilians would be as low if not lower than enlisted. If you get over these humps now, it will be easier in the long run. Remember, with all the knowlege on this site, you have an edge over the average joe walking in to the recruiters that will believe their spill. Im sure 8/10 people wanting to join wants aviation. Keep you head up and legs moving till you reach your goal. Chances are the other guy wont.

[Adsfbike]

My recruiter said the same thing initially. I than showed him the selection rates for enlisted and civilian. I was able to change his mind with that. I told him I wouldn't waste his time and I would do everything I could and only use him for scheduling of tests etc. I gave him the option to take me on or not and I let him know I would be ok if he didn't want to. I took that approach and he responded well and said that it was his job to do it so he would. Don't give up though!

[Yamer]

Are you going to have the recruiter submit your packet or are you going to email it to the email on the warrant officer recruiting website... im a little confused with that too cause the recruiter i have been using gave me a different checklist to use than whats online so im thinking that email is for people that are enlisted already... i dont know

[Adsfbike]

Sent you a pm. The recruiter is going to send it off as far as I know.

[UnitedWeStand111]

My station commander was like "We want to help you out, this ain't car sales." In my head, I was like yeah right, then why are you pulling the bait n switch on me?! Lol

[akscott60]

They arent paid by the hour. WTF? Its not like the Army is hurting for people and they need to spend all their time begging for fresh meat at local highschools.

[d10]

Does anyone know if recruiters are even allowed to refuse applications like this? I never would have thought that was the case before reading some of these threads. They're not in the best position to judge how qualified a candidate is or what the aviation branch is looking for. And giving them that authority seems like it would create a conflict of interest, since I've heard most recruiters absolutely hate processing WOFT applications. It wouldn't be the first time I failed to understand the reasoning behind an Army policy but it also wouldn't be the first time a soldier disregarded duty, so I really have no idea how correct this is.

[UnitedWeStand111]

Coming from a civilian/business perspective, i don't think they are allowed to actually refuse people on the basis of perceived competitiveness. However, it is their job to help place a recruit in the MOS that's "best" for the recruit AND for the Army, although the recruiter/station usually focuses on what makes their own lives easier.

 

In a way, it is sales. They try to sell you on an MOS or a career path. They don't get paid by the hour, but they can certainly get promoted by being a "great" recruiter. An uneducated and willing consumer, or recruit, is their favorite. Definetely parallels any sales environment, and unfortunately should be treated as such. Either they get over on you, or you get over on them. Hopefully everyone gets what they want and is happy, but that's idealism at its best. Please correct me if im off base on this..

[Yamer]

Yeah im gonna call himtoday and see what the deal is. I might be changing offices anyways at this point because they have lost my trust

[Yamer]

I switched recruiting stations this week, what a night and day difference. the alarm bells should have went off to me when i walked into the first station and noticed they were all rocking out to the local rap music station and being weird. the new station is what i expect a recruiting station to be, professional, and plus its in a smaller town that is just as far away from my house as the first one so no loss to me. the smaller town means less office activity which means more time and willingness to work with me and my woft packet.

 

the first station apparently received an email from my mother in law, who is not supportive of this process or me joining, and basically she threatened them with legal action if they sign me up. they went off of what she said to them in regards to my medical history, which wasn't accurate, and whatever slim chance i had of them working with me on my packet went out the window. ugh what a stressful week i've had.

 

the new office is perfect so far. there are only three people in there, one is the first sgt of the office, the second is my recruiter (an 11b that has been a recruiter a whopping month lol) and another lady recruiter that has been one for 6 months. all are very helpful and understanding that this is all i want to do or will be doing. they are also pretty shocked about the last recruiting stations activity so that's a plus too.

 

took the practice asvab and got a 79 on it, which apperently according to my web searches is a great score. minimum to enlist is a 31 :-o and anything over 50 is worth fighting for between the branches. 99 is a perfect score they told me.

 

i take the asvab and afast on 18july2012. more to come after that.

 

i pm'd a few of you but i was wondering if anyone had a list of documents for the packet. i know about the one on the warrant website but that seems too geared towards people that are already enlisted. the first recruiting station gave me a different one that is for civilians but its from 2006 and it applies to ocs packets too... anyone have their list they are using currently or could please list the forms you are using in your packets.

Edited July 12, 2012 by Yamer

[Fllip]

Hey Yamer, I will also be taking the afast on the 18th. Good luck to you. As far as a list of documents for the packet, I believe majority of it will be done by your recruiter. The only ones I've filled out was a thick packet about my living, employment, and personal references history. It also included some medical questions. You will need a couple of LORs, your "Why I want to be an Army Aviator" essay, and personal resume(although its not necessary, it is highly recommended). As far as I know, I believe that is whats required of us other than a lot of dedication and patient.

[Jericho14]

Hello everyone! Seems like theres some cool people giving really good and specific info on here about the WOFT program. I too am about to start my application. I wish you all luck!

I was just had a couple questions about the whole application/board process. I just started taking fixed wing lessons to try and stand out to these guys and I just wanted to know is that a decent move? I dont have an BA and I knot I dont need one but I would realy be dissapointed if I put in for this whiole thing and got turned down for not standing out. I know what I will be an awesome pilot and do well in flight school, but these boards and tests the govt makes you take to see if you can make it always makes me nervous. I guess I'm really trying to figure out if putting the application off till later is a good choice to try and improve my appearance on paper, or should I just freakin GO FOR IT! Thanks for your time yall have a good one!

[Lindsey]

Yamer --

 

For the ASVAB, I highly recommend specifically studying for the sections that will count towards your GT score, since you must earn above a 110 in order to be eligible for WOFT. Cursory research either on the internet or these forums will tell you those sections. Interestingly, those particular sections overlap quite well with what sections are counted for your AFQT score (the 79 you received on your practice test). There's more to it than taking the test and getting a score.

[Yamer]

thanks Lindsey. I plan on doing some more practicing for both before I go up there and take them. The 79 I received was done without taking my time really. I'm sure I could actually do the math and get a better score lol.

 

hey fliip, glad to see your post count increase!!! lol thanks for the advice there. Unfortunately for me the new recruiter i have has only been one for a month so i hope he can pull his strings and know more about this than i do otherwise we are two blind mice running from a cat lol

[Yamer]

talked to the recruiter's 1st sgt of the office today. he seemed willing and professional so its still a go for me and my packet at this point.

 

he wanted to talk and lay out my projections and stuff. he's the only one in the office that's ever submitted a WOFT packet, it was 4 years ago and the only one he's ever done he said. the one he did was a guy that was hours short of his PPL but had no college credits. he had just gotten into embry riddle though so that was included in the packet. the local board (not arizona) reviewed that guy three times in three consecutive months and never got accepted. dont know where he went after that. so long story short my 1st sgt got acid reflux cause of that experience but hes remarkably willing to give 100% try to get me in at this point so that's good. hopefully ill have better luck getting in with being hours short of my associates degree but minimal flight hours (like 8). we shall see

 

he informed me today that, according to phx meps, you cant take the asvab and afast in the same day, SO, ill be taking the asvab on the 18th and the afast and meps phys on the 26th and 27th with that overnight trip to meps. YEA! lol it really stinks i live 45 mins from meps and cant come home. ugh oh well better start getting used to it now i suppose.

 

then its flight phys time sometime the end of july beginning of august.

 

i expressed my concerns to him about the sift and all that other stuff we have been stressing over on here. he said there's no reason we wont get it submitted well before oct 1st so we are good there but he didnt even know what the sift was so that was explained to him in depth.

 

on a side note, does anyone know anything about going from the reserves to woft? just in case later on if i cant get accepted due to my lack of flight hours or competitiveness at this point. are there any aviation units in the reserves or are they all active duty units? he told me the reserves are better than the guard because you get deployed a ton less cause the guard gets used for wildfires and other stuff while the reserves get used just like active duty just not nearly as much. anyone have input to that route?

 

dont get me wrong, i'm 200% street to seat at this point i just like to plan in advance for a just in case scenario. kinda for the same reason we are looking at houses near rucker and or on rucker and looking at alabama to see whats cool to do there family wise... im sure its a little cart before the horse but we like to know as much as possible before we dive into it blind and miss something.

 

more to come as i know it

[Yamer]

well test #1 done.

 

asvab scores are in and I passed.

 

AFQT: 81

GT:120

CL:123

CO:131

EL:130

FA:131

GM:133

MM:138

OF:133

SC:128

ST:127

 

I'm gonna go look up the scores and what the ranges are for each just for fun so I know how i did in other areas but i passed for the WOFT and that's all that really matters to me right now.

 

next week on Thursday is the AFAST and Friday is the MEPS physical. Study time!!!