GI Bill Benefits

[Lindsey]

I realize this topic has been beaten to death throughout these forums, yet in all of the threads I have looked through, there seems to still not be a consensus. I will edit this thread once I find the definitive answers I am looking for, so the end result will be a simple, straightforward reference for GI Bill benefits at particular flight schools.

 

Here is what I am looking for:

 

Benefits at:

1) Part 141 associated w/ IHL*

2) Part 141 w/o IHL

3) Part 61 associated w/ IHL

4) Part 61 w/o IHL

 

*Institute of Higher Learning - College

 

Specifically, I would like to know about Post 9/11 Benefits. However, if you know information about how the Montgomery GI Bill benefits differ, PLEASE post that as well.

 

_______________________________________________________

 

The reason I need this information is because I am running a flight school and need to be able to pass this information on to potential students asking about their GI Bill benefits. It is a Part 61 school currently not associated with a college, although I am working on that.

 

Here is my current understanding:

 

1) All training is paid for from Zero hours to CFII

2) 60% of training is paid for after PPL

3) Up to $17,500/year or something along these lines

4) Up to $10,000/year

 

If possible, please provide specifics and references, instead of "I heard that..."

 

Even better, Point-of-Contact info for a very knowledgeable VA rep that I can give to students.

 

Thanks a bunch, VR.

 

Lindsey

[superstallion6113]

I'm currently attending a flight school in a degree program using my Post 9/11 GI Bill, and researched this quite a bit before starting school back in January this year.

 

#1 - The Post 9/11 GI Bill will pay 100% of the tuition at a part 141 school that is associated with a public college that gets you a degree with your flight training. If you are attending a private college such as Embry-Riddle, there is a $17,500 annual cap, but the Yellow Ribbon Program can cover a large chunk of what's left over, at participating schools. That is the ONLY way the GI Bill will pay 100% of all the ratings from PPL thru CFII. The 100% is assuming the vet rates 100% of the benefit. If you don't meet the 100% requirement due to serving less than 36 months after 9/11/01, the amount the VA will cover is based on the % of the GI Bill they say you rate, based on your length of service.

 

#2 - If it is NOT a program that gets you a degree, the GI Bill will pay 60% of the costs of your flight training, up to $10,000 per year, EXCLUDING PPL, at a Part 141 school. You must have a current PPL and medical cert before the VA will pay.

 

#3/#4 - The GI Bill will not pay for training at a part 61 school as far as I know. I have not found a reference for this, but it is what I was told on the phone with the VA when I was looking for a school.

 

So you are correct on #1 and #2, but I'm 95% sure #3 and #4 will not be covered due to the part 61. Training must be done under a 141 syllabus from what I remember on the phone with the VA.

 

http://www.gibill.va...t_training.html

Edited June 18, 2012 by superstallion6113

[Lindsey]

Thanks superstallion! I cannot remember where I read the information about Part 61...I am 90% sure that there is some way to use SOME benefits with a 61 school, although obviously it is a much smaller amount. Anyone?

[Lindsey]

That link you provided has this info:

 

• If you are enrolled in any degree program that consists of flight training at a private Institution of Higher Learning you can be reimbursed up to the full cost of the training or $17,500 per academic year, whichever is less. You will also be eligible to receive your housing allowance and the books & supplies stipend.
  
• If you are enrolled in any type of vocational flight training you can be reimbursed up to the full cost of training or $10,000 per academic year, whichever is less, you WILL NOT receive the housing allowance or books & supplies stipend.
  

[ridethisbike]

Lindsey, I currently go to school with superstallion and can back up what he is saying.

 

The key words in what you just posted are PRIVATE IHL and VOCATIONAL flight training. As superstallion stated, it needs to be a public school for them to pay 100% above and beyond the $17.5k

 

On a complete side note, if you want these answers you shouldn't be asking us, you should be asking the VA. Why get the info roundabout when you can get it straight from the horse's mouth? You're going to have to talk to them eventually, and if not, you're going to have to talk to someone at a local college who will most likely be their VA rep. This one right here might be a stretch, because in the end I know it's a business, but you could also try talking to another flight school that has this program setup and ask them what needs to be done. Although I'm not sure how helpful they would be in helping you set up competition.

 

I think it's good you want to put out the straight forward answers for everyone, but all you're going to get here is hearsay.

 

For instance: in response to superstallion on #2. I'm not entirely sure it NEEDS to be 141. Being 141 wasn't a huge deal until a few years ago. If memory serves, that is...

 

 

With that being said, I've got to go knock out my PPL written exam. I wish you the best of luck getting your program up and running. As I'm sure you already know, expect it to take a while though.

[Lindsey]

Thank you, ridethisbike. Do you have any contact information for a solid VA rep? It seems difficult to find one who is knowledgeable on this particular aspect of the GI Bill.

 

Good luck on your written!

[Chitty777]

Lindsey,

 

I'm currently using my benefits (not post 9/11) for CFI and CFII. they are correct about the 60% after ppl.

 

As for your last question, finding a solid VA rep was hit or miss. The last one I had was very informative and had all the answers to my questions, but that was half a year ago. the one before that, not so much. Just give them a ring and if you find a good one make sure to get their name and extension.

 

Sorry if this wasn't too much help.

[gary-mike]

http://www.veteransb...ation-benefits/

 

http://www.index.va....earchbtn=Search

 

That will get you started in the confusion. I agree, find out who the VA rep in your area is and talk to them. One warning about that though, many of them do not understand the program when it comes to flight training and you may have to teach them. It does make a difference on what Bill, or chapter the student will be using. The requirements and amount covered are significant. If you have freinds at schools that are using this program talk to them, they can help you understand the process. (it can be confusing and a pain to get through).

 

Acouple of places off the top of my head that are well established with the program are Leading Edge, Upper Limit, Guidance Aviation, and College of the Sequoias.

 

A member on here that knows the process and benefits real good is Captain Dune, send him a PM. I believe he knows the link to the actual Bill/directives.

 

Good luck and be ready for the long haul. Multiple agencies have to all come to an agreement and aproval, the IHL, flight school, VA, and FAA. It seems that none of these agencies work at a very fast pace. (except maybe the flight school).

 

Edit: just thought I should add; watch for the date on the documents, many changes were made in the last few years.

Edited June 18, 2012 by gary-mike

[Pohi]

I agree about the hit or miss when calling the VA. I have had VA reps say opposite things during different calls. One person literally read the text off the web page to me, as if I wanted to sit on hold for 45 min for that :-)

[Lindsey]

Thanks for the guidance, guys. I will do some heavy research and report back at the end of the week.

 

Appreciate it!

[ridethisbike]

One more thing, something you'll need to keep in the back of your head is that the company MUST be financially sound prior to starting the program as the VA doesn't pay up on the first day of school. It takes a couple months for them to pay. Also, there are times where the VA might screw something up and not pay at all. It can be fixed most times, but not always.

 

Example: A friend of mine didn't get paid on time. No housing allowance, no book stipend, no tuition. He didn't get it fixed until a month or two before the spring semester was over. By that time he had already racked up over 20 hours of flight and 4 hours of the 1-1 ground. It took getting congress involved to get it fixed.

 

As it turns out, I may be dealing with the same issue this semester. Everyone had their full tuition balance paid off already (as far as I know) and I had a whopping $67 paid for towards my Gen. Ed. class. There is still a hefty balance remaining right now. I think it was on the school's end that the screw up came along just as it was for my buddy, but I'm not sure yet since I found out after everything had already closed. Hopefully I'll be able to find out whats going on tomorrow.

 

Just throwing it out there.

[crashed_05]

I used my Post 9/11 GI Bill for private through CFII and ASEL commercial/instrument add-ons, and I'm still using it to gain my multi-engine, MEI, CFII, tail-wheel, and high-performance airplane ratings, as well as a second AAS degree. After all is said and done, I'll still have a little left over to begin my bachelor degree at ERAU.

I trained at a 141 flight school, but I did not have to conduct my training under part 141. My commercial and CFII training was done under part 61 and the VA still covered it (still associated with a college).

The college/flight providers here in central Oregon have done a great job of putting together an awesome program. I'll get ahold of the aviation coordinator here at COCC for you and see if he'd mind chatting with you before he retires. He would definitely be very knowledgable on the topic.

[Lindsey]

I used my Post 9/11 GI Bill for private through CFII and ASEL commercial/instrument add-ons, and I'm still using it to gain my multi-engine, MEI, CFII, tail-wheel, and high-performance airplane ratings, as well as a second AAS degree. After all is said and done, I'll still have a little left over to begin my bachelor degree at ERAU.

I trained at a 141 flight school, but I did not have to conduct my training under part 141. My commercial and CFII training was done under part 61 and the VA still covered it (still associated with a college).

The college/flight providers here in central Oregon have done a great job of putting together an awesome program. I'll get ahold of the aviation coordinator here at COCC for you and see if he'd mind chatting with you before he retires. He would definitely be very knowledgable on the topic.

 

Crashed--that would be excellent. I know he has already talked briefly with the Chief pilot of my school (Helicopters Northwest) and I am being put in charge of getting the ball running on this one. Or, do you have his contact info (in a PM), and I can definitely contact him myself.

 

That's very interesting that you did part of your training under Part 61--that's exactly what I was hoping to hear

[tntshuffle]

Hola guys!

I am active duty and I'm trying to get into flight school for helicopters here in the San Diego area. There is Polamar College in San Marcos, Ca which offers an aviation degree (and it's on the VA's website) but taking the actual flight lessons is on the student as long as it's rated as a 141 school. Civic Helicopters is right around the corner from me here in Carlsbad, Ca and it is on the VA's website as an approved school but they are not currently associated with a college. I am trying to find a work around so I can take the classes at Polamar and do my flight lessons through Civic...anybody have an issue similar to this? It's quite maddening trying to figure this all out. Thanks in advance everyone!

[UpperLimitAviation]

Hola guys!

I am active duty and I'm trying to get into flight school for helicopters here in the San Diego area. There is Polamar College in San Marcos, Ca which offers an aviation degree (and it's on the VA's website) but taking the actual flight lessons is on the student as long as it's rated as a 141 school. Civic Helicopters is right around the corner from me here in Carlsbad, Ca and it is on the VA's website as an approved school but they are not currently associated with a college. I am trying to find a work around so I can take the classes at Polamar and do my flight lessons through Civic...anybody have an issue similar to this? It's quite maddening trying to figure this all out. Thanks in advance everyone!

 

 

 

There is no "work around." When you apply for VA benefits at one school, and then try to apply again at another, the VA will know and deny the second application.

 

 

There is ONLY one program in the nation that IS covered fully for college courses AND flight training, legally.

 

 

If you go another route, you can have your college paid for, but not flight training; or, flight training paid for up to $10,000 per year, and you pay 100% up front, then hope the VA pays you 60% of the accrued amount in a timely manner.

 

The other "work arounds" are illegally filing claims, if what they post is true. Whether the student is, or the school is, but it is still illegal. No Part 61 training, even associated with a school (associated meaning both programs are accredited), pays 100% for training. 100% paid is for Part 141 ONLY when BOTH programs are accredited.

 

Part 61 flight training is NOT a structured course, therefore not eligible for 100% benefits. Just because a college may offer Part 61 training, it does not make it a structured course, it is STILL Part 61 training. Look up Part 61 training with the FAA.

 

 

ULA is accredited through the Accrediting Commission of Career Schools and Colleges. It took us 3 years to achieve this.

 

Lindsey, Good luck with your endeavor, it will be a long and grueling process.

[tntshuffle]

Upper Limit,

thanks for the reply...very dissappointing though. I happen to have the oppertunity to take college and flight lessons now, but the whole issue of trying to find a college associated with a helicopter school in my area is killing me. I have about a year and a half left in the Navy and I really just wanted to take advantage of the time. I was hoping someone in a similar situation may have found a way to make it work if the're not near one the fully set up colleges with flight programs. They do have some fixed wing college programs out here, but not really any helicopter schools associated with colleges out here. Friggin frustrating....

Thanks again though-

[UpperLimitAviation]

Upper Limit,

thanks for the reply...very dissappointing though. I happen to have the oppertunity to take college and flight lessons now, but the whole issue of trying to find a college associated with a helicopter school in my area is killing me. I have about a year and a half left in the Navy and I really just wanted to take advantage of the time. I was hoping someone in a similar situation may have found a way to make it work if the're not near one the fully set up colleges with flight programs. They do have some fixed wing college programs out here, but not really any helicopter schools associated with colleges out here. Friggin frustrating....

Thanks again though-

 

 

The main point of all this that people are overlooking, if a college says they have a flight program, that flight program is a "separate" school from the college/university itself, even if it belongs to the college/university.

 

The flight school AND the college both have to be accredited, and the flight training HAS to be part 141.

[UpperLimitAviation]

The exact wording from the US Code:

 

 

38 USC CHAPTER 33 - POST-9/11 EDUCATIONAL ASSISTANCE

( c ) In the case of an individual enrolled in a program of

education consisting of flight training (regardless of the

institution providing such program of education), an amount

equal to -

(i) the lesser of -

(I) the actual net cost for in-State tuition and fees

assessed by the institution concerned for the program of

education after the application of -

(aa) any waiver of, or reduction in, tuition and fees;

and

(bb) any scholarship, or other Federal, State,

institutional, or employer-based aid or assistance (other

than loans and any funds provided under section 401( b ) of

the Higher Education Act of 1965) that is provided

directly to the institution and specifically designated

for the sole purpose of defraying tuition and fees; or

 

(II) the amount equal to -

(aa) for the academic year beginning on August 1, 2011,

$10,000; or

(bb) for an academic year beginning on any subsequent

August 1, the amount for the previous academic year

beginning on August 1 under this subclause, as increased

by the percentage increase equal to the most recent

percentage increase determined under section 3015(h),

multiplied by -

 

(ii) either -

(I) in the case of an individual entitled to educational

assistance by reason of paragraphs (1), (2), or (9) of

section 3311( b ), 100 percent; or

(II) in the case of an individual entitled to educational

assistance by reason of paragraphs (3) through (8) of

section 3311( b ), the same percentage as would otherwise

apply to the monthly amounts payable to the individual

under paragraphs (2) through (7) of subsection ( c ).

 

 

http://uscode.house....d/pls/38C33.txt

 

 

 

When the flight school itself becomes accredited as a Career School, the flight training and college courses are both covered under POST-911, when the college and flight school are partnered to provide said education.

[revaequitas]

I used my Post 9/11 GI Bill for private through CFII and ASEL commercial/instrument add-ons, and I'm still using it to gain my multi-engine, MEI, CFII, tail-wheel, and high-performance airplane ratings, as well as a second AAS degree. After all is said and done, I'll still have a little left over to begin my bachelor degree at ERAU.

 

How in the world is all of that covered? I need to get in on that!

[jjsemperfi]

Get it while it lasts, I can't imagine the gov will fork out this money forever.

[crashed_05]

How in the world is all of that covered? I need to get in on that!

If you play your cards right and are truly dedicated in your training/studying, you can fit it all in before the benefits run out.

[UNCphillips]

Just a little spin on the same subject, have any of you out there used your benefits to get a specific type rating?