What should I be doing now to prepare for 135? Getting close to 1000 hrs.

[SBuzzkill]

Lots of thin skin in here.

[C of G]

Life is not always tactful. Sometimes reality slaps you in the face like a wake up call. Tact is nice, but in general, the environment we live in isn't.

 

True, but is there any additional effort to responding tactfully? What's the benefit of being a d!ck? I often come across as blunt or overly direct, but why infer into a question your own bias?

 

This guy comes asking a legitimate question trying to se how he can prep for the FUTURE and he's met with a crabby attitude. On one hand, he got a dose of reality that a lot of older pilots are disgruntled, with good cause ala Bob Suggs, but times have changed. Until only a few years back, 1000 was the "magic" number. Maybe not today, but in 2-3 years we'll be back to hiring fast and furious. It's all cyclical.

 

The best advice I was given to set up for my future was before I had 150 hours. Get 100 hours of night ASAP.

[Chitty777]

True, life isn't always "tactful". However, in a controlled environment/forum, there are better ways to convey information. Everyone gets a wake up call, and they will get their "slap in the face." I just don't think this should be the venue for it. It's supposed to be a community.

[Nearly Retired]

This guy comes asking a legitimate question trying to se how he can prep for the FUTURE and he's met with a crabby attitude.

 

Hang on a sec. Legitimate question? There's an app for that. It's called faa.gov. Click on Federal Aviation Regulations and click through to the part where they talk about 135. Tells you everything you need to know about "preparing" for 135.

 

First of all, the OP monkey said that he was "getting close" to 1,000 hours and asked what he should be doing to prepare for a 135 job. I don't know about you guys, but this implies to *me* that he's expecting to get a 135 job once he actually does get his 1,000 hours. Why else would he ask, and why else would he mention his flight time? He's expecting to get a 135 job "soon."

 

Seriously? Someone's been feeding the monkey a lot of bull.

 

The reality is that he is NOT going to be getting a "135 job" at 1,000 hours. Maybe not even at 1,500 hours. There aren't even any "entry-level" SIC jobs for low-timers like there are in fixed-wing. And you other old-timers know it! You people who would tell him otherwise are just giving him false hopes and leading him on. Just today a fellow pilot at our company told me that he'd received a phone call from a friend who really, really wants to get out of instructing and into a "real job." This CFI was asked how much flight time he has so far? The reply: 500 hours. Where do these pilots get the idea that you can get a "real job" with so little flight time??

 

Why do you guys always want internet discussion boards to be feel-good group hugs? Don't you get enough of that at home in real life? Why perpetuate these myths?

 

And another thing. If "monkey" has to come on here to find out what 135 flying is all about, then with nearly 1,000 hours he obviously doesn't know any real 135 pilots. And if he doesn't know any real 135 pilots, then how's he ever going to get recommended for a 135 job? By having another R-22 CFI recommend him? Maybe the best advice anyone can give him is to befriend some real, working charter pilots, because he's not going to get any accurate feedback or info from other low-time CFIs.

 

The internet has been around a long time. For years...years I've had three kids "pestering" me online about this business since before they had taken their first lesson. And over the years, they have asked innumerable questions about the industry. They were inquisitive to the point of fatigue, a lot of times asking questions I simply could not answer. But I always tried to be patient with them and answer their questions as best I could. I encouraged them all to use me as a reference. Today, one of them owns his own single-ship utility company, one of them is an EMS pilot, and one of them flies EC130's for Papillon.

 

And finally, new pilots need to know what a crappy industry this is. I still hear horror stories about bad operators and bad aircraft...of broken promises and bad deals. I mean, wow, it's disheartening. You guys can sugar-coat it all you want, but carving a career flying helicopters for money aint no walk in the park. If more people were honest about what goes on in this business, maybe a guy I know would not have gone up to Alaska where he was pressured to fly in bad weather and ended up pranging a ship.

 

I was flying just after sunrise yesterday morning with a low-timer in an S-55. We'd been drying cherries up on the side of a hill about 2,000 feet up. After we finished we started down toward our LZ which itself is on a plateau at 1,250 feet. Before us lay the Okanogan River valley in all of its stunning, aching beauty. I mean it was awesome. As the kid set up the approach we took the time to look around, drink it all in and realize how lucky we were to be doing this crazy thing. And we're not even 135!

 

But for every "cool" job there are dozens of bad ones. For every PHI there's an RLC. The road is not an easy one. For some it will not be worth it. I know of one guy right now who is also "getting close to 1,000 hours" who will probably not be going any further for various reasons - and not because he doesn't want to.

 

Forums like this can be a wonderful tool for new pilots. But we do them no service by not being honest...by pretending that everything is wonderful, that it's always sunny in Philadelphia and that it never rains in California.

 

Monkey needs to talk to some real pilots.

[clay]

Jeesh. Nearly retired, you hit the nail dead nuts on the head. I didn't get that kind of insight prior to starting. Luckily I did push through it, and got a great paying job where I am home every night.

 

 

I think everyone on this forum that is in flight school or debating starting needs to listen too Mr. Retired's advice and insight. It holds more truth than alot realize.

[Mikemv]

As another old fart that comes here to mentor and advise, I recommend all up and coming pilots to attend Heli Success to get educated on what it takes to make it in this industry.

 

Hear the presentations by the industry's leading employers, have your resume looked over, attend the FAASTeam presentations the day before, rub elbows and net work at the one drink social hour.

 

Register now for Heli Success!!!!!!!

 

Mike

Edited July 12, 2012 by Mikemv

[RkyMtnHI]

As i read this i logged in to 'like' the posts that i agreed with, but as i went back over them i realized that i could actually 'like' almost all of them.

 

There is some really good stuff here, and another post Emily made on that topic Lyn started the other day about flight schools doing a good job getting students ready for their future.

 

Some of this i will print out and stick on the wall at Heli-Ops, Nearly Retired is somewhat gruff but sometimes we need to be to get the point across to the kids (i have pilots that work for me that are over 30 and i still call them my 'kids'). If you don't know what you are getting into you can really make some mistakes that will stay with you for a LONG time (like spending $70K and not getting a job after all your sweat and tears).

 

I smiled when i read some of these because it made me remember the many faces of potential students that walked into our offices. When they started talking with me their faces were all happy and excited... but after my speech about what it will really take, and how hard it can be, their demeanor changed dramatically. The ones that kept smiling generally came back and are busting ass, the others either ended up at other flight schools or giving up.

 

It is my humble opinion that many of the issues we see in the training side of this industry is from lack of information from the get go. People think it's all roses and excitement.. it's not, and the flying is the easy part. I have a link to Lyn's ebook on my website, we recommend it to everyone that walks in the door. We insist that all of our pilots in training go to HeliSucess, We tell them from day one that it's a very tough road. I know of many success stories, but i know of more not so successful stories. I cannot tell you what or why about all of the not so successful stories, but i think that if they had taken the time to get as much info BEFORE they dived in, their experience would have been much better.

 

Spike and i have talked about the fact that there is a lack of information available to the person that is just starting to think about getting into this biz. That is why many of us spend so much time here, trying to help.

 

Keep the input coming, as Mike says, don't read emotion into what you see here because many times the information within is too good to over look, we need to give back and who knows who we might help in the long run.

 

jmho,

 

dp

[Wally]

Here's a group hug, "Nearly Retired".

 

You raise some very valid points, this is a tough industry for FNGs. It seems like there are a lot of empty promises if not outright deception at various levels. But some FNGs do make the cut and become working pilots. Those that do so were at one time 200, 500, 1000 hour pilots planning the next steps to better employment. I can't imagine getting to a thousand hours without a few contacts and some idea how to proceed in the industry, but I guess it happens. I took the OP as asking for tips as to how best to prepare.

There are some ignoramuses and jerks flying the line, I'd guess they were hard to take when they were FNGs, too. I suggest a little respect for the individual, a "zen" detached attitude and not letting their problems become your problems.

 

Never been to Heli Success. Personal contact is priceless. Luck is essential.

[Nearly Retired]

Wally, maybe you're right about luck. Was I "lucky" that I grew up in an area that had a lot of commercial operators, and from Day1 (when I was 15 years old) had working charter pilots mentoring me and teaching me the evil ways of the helicopter business? Was I "lucky" to get on as a line boy with one of those companies and work my way up to a pilot position? I've been at the "right place/right time" often enough to make me wonder whether it was my due to my astonishing good looks and winning personality, uncanny drive/motivation, "luck" or other supernatural forces at work?

 

This morning, some pilots in our company and I were talking about this thread. "Who," I asked, "teaches these kids that all you need is 1,000 hours and you can get a 135 job?" The answer came quickly from one of our relatively low-time pilots: "Flight schools."

 

But they're clever, see? They say, "You'll need 1,000 hours to get most 135 jobs." And this is basically true: A standard insurance company requirement. But the implication is that you can actually *get* a 135 job when you hit 1,000 hours. Which is basically *not* true.

 

But what if a flight school was honest? What if they said to their students who want to pursue this as a career, "Ehhhhh, you're really gonna need about 1,500 hours and an Instrument rating to be competitive, and you're gonna have to know someone inside the company, and even if you think you meet all of the qualifications you still might not even get your resume acknowledged by the Chief Pilot." You know as well as I do that it would discourage a lot of people, some of whom would turn around and walk right out the door. "1,500 hours?! Jeez-Louise! How'm I gonna get that?!"

 

There is a kid working for our company this summer. Low-time, yes. But I "sort of" knew him from Facebook. He friended me because we had a mutual friend. And I saw that he was also friends with some "heavy-hitters" in the utility side of the business. His working-pilot friends all had nice, supportive things to say to or about him on his wall. And he had pictures of himself flying Astars (not as PIC) and hanging around operators that used fairly large equipment (S-58T's). This kid was serious. I was impressed. Impressed enough to contact him and see if he wanted to come up and work with us this summer. And I have to say, it has worked out GREAT for us, and I hope him too.

 

So. Building time up to nearly 1,000 hours and *then* asking what I should be doing to prepare for my 135 job just doesn't cut it in my book. You shoulda done started that a long time ago.

 

Is "monkey" a hopeless case? Let's hope not! Let's hope he (and other up-and-comers like him) has learned some valuable lessons from this thread and begins (better late than never) to network with working pilots (and the people who run the companies these pilots work for) so he can get better advice than, "Uhh, read FAR 135 and go from there." Which he probably already knew.

 

There are no guarantees, no assurances, no promises that *any* amount of flight hours will lead to a "135 job" (what *is* that, anyway?). It often comes down to fate, luck, timing, who-you-know...or circumstances that you cannot predict or control. THAT is the hard reality that most pilots on these feel-good, why-can't-we-be-friends? discussion forums don't like to admit. If you happen to be in the right place at the right time with the right check marks on your resume, you're golden. If not, you're sucking wind and living with mom and dad for a while longer.

 

And yet people continue to come into this business looking to make it a career.

[Nearly Retired]

Clay say: I think everyone on this forum that is in flight school or debating starting needs to listen too Mr. Retired's advice and insight.

 

...Nearly. Nearly retired. Don't push me out the door just yet, Clay. I may be able to pass one more flight physical (if my Santa Claus doctor doesn't pass away first).

 

Thank you for the kind words.

[eagle5]

Every year Temsco and Papillion post ads for entry-level turbine jobs with the minimum of 1000hrs. From what I've heard both have 135 training the newbies have to pass. So, what's wrong with someone who is reaching 1000hrs and will be trying for these jobs when they come up again at the end of the year, asking for some advice on how to prepare?

[Falko]

So, what's wrong with someone who is reaching 1000hrs and will be trying for these jobs when they come up again at the end of the year, asking for some advice on how to prepare?

 

there is nothing wrong with that, thats why he came here on VR, posted his question and received answers.

[eagle5]

there is nothing wrong with that, thats why he came here on VR, posted his question and received answers.

 

Some of those "answers" seem more like bashing a wannabee for spouting flight school propaganda, instead of treating him for what he is, an employed pilot about to reach 1000hrs asking for advice on how to prepare for the next level!

 

...but maybe its just how I read them?

[Spike]

“What should I be doing now to prepare for 135? Getting close to 1000 hrs.”

 

It’s amazing what 2 sentences can generate, even though it seems the last 4 words are what garnered all the speculation. If it simply read “What should I be doing now to prepare for 135?” we’d be elsewhere right now…..

 

“Getting close to 1000 hrs” means what? To me, it meant the OP is getting close to 1000 hrs. Maybe if it read “getting close to 1000 hrs turbine” this thread may have been a different discussion. Then again, maybe not…..

 

Are people hired into 135 companies with 1000 hours? Yes….

 

Are 1000 hours pilots routinely hired into 135 companies? No….

 

Are the majority of pilots hired into 135 companies have well over 1000 hours? Yes….

 

Do I personally know anyone who was hired at a 135 gig at 1000 hours? Yes…

 

Do I personally know the OP? No…..

 

Without digging out my log book, I was hired as a 135 pilot with about 1700 hours. Not hearsay or speculation but a simple fact… And, what does this mean as a pilot who comes here to provide advice to others? Other than “been-there-done-that”, it means nothing….

 

Did I personally know someone at the 135 company for which I applied? Yes.

 

Is the OP suggesting he’s “entitled” to job just because he has 1000 hours? Maybe. Then again, maybe not. Maybe he actually does have an “in” at a 135 company. Then again, maybe not. Who’s to know? I believe it would be the OP….

 

People can read into question a thousand ways, then narrow it down to one. That is, narrow it down to one meaning, and then barf their righteousness……

 

My hat goes off to anyone who tries to help others, regardless of the tone. Even though I’m not new to this business, with regards to this thread, it would appear the best advice came from those with far less experience than me....

 

The negatives of this business are glaring and most of the time, go without saying. Even smokers know what they are doing is bad for them. Then again, maybe I assume too much. If so, then I have to be an equal opportunity assumer and believe everyone is an idiot. Thankfully, I give credit where credit is due and therefore believe most folks that come here are intelligent enough to understand the obvious. Either way, if anyone chooses to take on this endeavor without due research, then their impending failure is self-inflicted....

 

I do not, nor will ever have, a crystal ball. Simply put, I cannot predict the future. No one can. Moreover, I’m not obtuse enough to attempt to tell anyone what is, or is not possible in their life. With that, this business has many sides and all I can do is bring forth the side I’ve seen, experienced, personally, by me, only me, alone, mine, and no one else. Take-it-or-leave-it.….

 

In this business there are no guarantees. Then again, there is no guarantee you will wake up tomorrow morning either. The one thing is for sure; nothing ventured is nothing gained…

Edited July 13, 2012 by Spike

[monkey]

This is entertaining stuff.... but a lot of advice too. Thank you. Everything "negative" said I really already knew. A lot of it definitely would be good for someone thinking of getting into the industry to know. I have heard most of it...all pilots have aids (aviation induced divorce syndrome), transient lifestyle, wont get rich flying, a lot of your friends will die, bad companies, no one will hire you etc..I know most schools are not honest about the road. Maybe I am stupid for continuing in this career based on all I have heard. I didn't know all of this getting in, but I am pretty invested in it at this point. I know there are a lot of obstacles and maybe it was a stupid question cause it really comes down to get more hours and know people like everyone always says. I do have an opportunity coming up and I do know some people in the company. I am not entitled to anything and I know that. Knowing all the crap, I just try to have the attitude that if you really want something, make it happen...not that I always feel so optimistic eating ramen noodles for the past 3 years.

Edited July 18, 2012 by monkey