Whom would you reccomend for 10 day instrument rating?

helipic2 · July 6, 2012

Who knows of a school in the US that can do an accelerated instrument check ride prep and provide a DPE without delay?

Shenanigan · July 9, 2012

Have you ever flown instruments? If not I would recommend an accelerated program as a nice way to kill yourself right after you graduate.

If you're flying instruments in a helicopter than you are likely doing it the way they did it in the 50's, without a FMS or autopilot and probably with an instrument package that would befuddle a 10,000 hour airline pilot. If you have a good instrument package in a relatively modern helicopter than anybody can follow the FMS instructions even if you don't know why it's telling you to do what it's telling you to do. But if not, than I wouldn't just check the block on this, it takes time and in the clouds mistakes aren't as easily forgiven as out of them.

helonorth · July 9, 2012

Do you really think the op is going to get the rating and then actually go fly SPIFR in the clouds?

I know of no school that does "accelerated" training for any rating. It's something that doesnt exist. Find a school with a sim, a good instructor that will a lot of availability and more than one instrument trainer for when the other one is broken. Have written done before you show up. Many places will promise you this, but few deliver. Maybe someone else has an idea. I like Tomlinson is FL, but I dont think they have a sim. Too bad. The sim will save you a lot of time and money.

Pohi · July 9, 2012

Do you really think the op is going to get the rating and then actually go fly SPIFR in the clouds?

Why not? That's what an IFR rating is for.

:-)

Shenanigan · July 9, 2012

Do you really think the op is going to get the rating and then actually go fly SPIFR in the clouds?

Yeah, Maybe he wanted to take his certificate and build a paper hat out of it, but I assumed it was to fly in the clouds.

Pohi · July 9, 2012

Yeah, Maybe he wanted to take his certificate and build a paper hat out of it, but I assumed it was to fly in the clouds.

Lol, now that's funny. Made me start laughing and look more like an idiot than I normally do.

C of G · July 9, 2012

Have you ever flown instruments? If not I would recommend an accelerated program as a nice way to kill yourself right after you graduate.

If you're flying instruments in a helicopter than you are likely doing it the way they did it in the 50's, without a FMS or autopilot and probably with an instrument package that would befuddle a 10,000 hour airline pilot. If you have a good instrument package in a relatively modern helicopter than anybody can follow the FMS instructions even if you don't know why it's telling you to do what it's telling you to do. But if not, than I wouldn't just check the block on this, it takes time and in the clouds mistakes aren't as easily forgiven as out of them.

I don't know about that. You can't get a helicopter IFR certified without proven stability systems or a second pilot/autopilot. So FMS aside, what difference does the radio make?

Spike · July 9, 2012

“Who knows of a school in the US that can do an accelerated instrument check ride prep and provide a DPE without delay?”

Let’s see, what are the possibilities???

He wants to get the certificate so he can immediately fly SPIFR? Nah..

He wants to legally find out what the inside of a TRW is like and the summer is almost over? Nope.

He really likes the look and feel of foggles so much so he wants to wear them all the time? No.

He has a severe case of ADD and needs to do everything “without delay”? Negatory.

He realized he holds every other rating in existence except instrument rotorcraft and he just found out he only has 2 weeks to live? Hope not.

He met a hot chick and she said he’d get lucky once he had an instrument rating? Nada.

He has an overwhelming desire to have as many federal “privileges” as possible? No.

He just bought an IFR Power and has to pick it up next week and fly back home across the US so he can attend his kid’s tiddlywink tournament and the forecast is for IMC? Grrr.

Or maybe, just maybe, he has a job offer/interview which requires the I-ticket? Hmmm… Maybe.

Shenanigan · July 9, 2012

I don't know about that. You can't get a helicopter IFR certified without proven stability systems or a second pilot/autopilot. So FMS aside, what difference does the radio make?

I don't know what you're asking. Radio?

Do what you want, but for me and pretty much everyone I know they we were still lost after 10 days. Sure an autopilot or another pilot should be able to maintain a heading, airspeed and altitude but that may be all you get. In my opinion if you've got an aircraft with nothing more than an RMI an ADF and a VOR and LOC (and you may) and you're doing a non-precision approach with an entry holding at an intersection than unless you are very Chuck Yeagerish or have previous instrument time than you will likely screw it up 9 times out of 10 if you've been flying instruments for 10 days.

Now if you have a nice FMS that draws the pattern for you and shows you exactly where you are than you may be able to master it that quick, or an autopilot that can maintain a course and glideslope by itself but I haven't seen many helicopters with such luxuries.

Just my opinion, take it for what it's worth. Some certifications may be very check the block, a dual engine aircraft flies exactly like a single engine one for instance but I just want the OP to know that I wouldn't recommend trying to find a shortcut on this.

nightsta1ker · July 9, 2012

Most helicopter pilots with an instrument rating will never use them. However, they are required to get most jobs. For most of us, it's a check the block type deal. And most jobs that would require you to do real instrument flying would provide re-currency training through their training department anyway. If you get your rating and don't fly another instrument approach for 6 months, you have probably lost all the skills required to do it well anyway and would need to get re-trained. So what's the harm in a 10 day, fly your pants off and cram instrument flying course? You are still needing to meet the required hours of instruction in order to get the certificate. Who cares how many days it takes you to get it done in?

C of G · July 9, 2012

I don't know what you're asking. Radio?

Yeah, the FMS you're saying helicopters don't have. It's basically a nav radio just like anything else. And if you wanna talk lost, put a freshly minted IFR pilot in front of an FMS.

Additionally, what IFR helicopter isn't stabilized or have the basic equipment to fly IFR? A basic 6 pack will be much easer to fly right out of the box rather than a glass cockpit.

Every IFR helicopter I've flown had an autopilot or a second pilot with a SAS and force trim system as well as a GPS/FMS of some sort. EC135, A109, BH412, AW139, S76.

Shenanigan · July 9, 2012

Yeah, the FMS you're saying helicopters don't have. It's basically a nav radio just like anything else. And if you wanna talk lost, put a freshly minted IFR pilot in front of an FMS.

Additionally, what IFR helicopter isn't stabilized or have the basic equipment to fly IFR? A basic 6 pack will be much easer to fly right out of the box rather than a glass cockpit.

Every IFR helicopter I've flown had an autopilot or a second pilot with a SAS and force trim system as well as a GPS/FMS of some sort. EC135, A109, BH412, AW139, S76.

Well I don't fly one with one, but I have once. I guess I would consider it more a computer than a radio but that's beside the point. Like I said, do what you want. I wouldn't feel comfortable after 10 days but that's me.

I recall flying through moderate icing and closer to my max power than I like to be with the weather at my destination turning out much worse than was predicted and upon approach my LOC went intermittent and became unusable so I ended up using a non IFR GPS to fly the needle on a VOR approach which is technically wrong but what can you do. I felt experience was worth it. I've had a friend whose gotten to their destination and didn't break out so without fuel for an alternate they ended up dropping below MDA in hopes of breaking out (they did), and one who's picked up icing so bad that the aircraft wasn't able to maintain altitude, and several that have had do declare a fuel emergency at their alternate after picking up icing in holding. At that point a missed approach is not an option. Just seems to me things can go bad easily IMC and while some of those things can be chocked up to a lack of experience in planning that's basically my point.

jim_222 · July 9, 2012

EC135, A109, BH412, AW139, S76.

[off_topic]

is it something wrong with me, now that I am drooling....???

[/off_topic]

C of G · July 9, 2012

Well I don't fly one with one, but I have once. I guess I would consider it more a computer than a radio but that's beside the point. Like I said, do what you want. I wouldn't feel comfortable after 10 days but that's me.

I recall flying through moderate icing and closer to my max power than I like to be with the weather at my destination turning out much worse than was predicted and upon approach my LOC went intermittent and became unusable so I ended up using a non IFR GPS to fly the needle on a VOR approach which is technically wrong but what can you do. I felt experience was worth it. I've had a friend whose gotten to their destination and didn't break out so without fuel for an alternate they ended up dropping below MDA in hopes of breaking out (they did), and one who's picked up icing so bad that the aircraft wasn't able to maintain altitude, and several that have had do declare a fuel emergency at their alternate after picking up icing in holding. At that point a missed approach is not an option. Just seems to me things can go bad easily IMC and while some of those things can be chocked up to a lack of experience in planning that's basically my point.

Agreed experience helps. But wether they got the rating in 10 days or 90 days, learning in a basic trainer won't help that much. Neither will a flight computer.

nightsta1ker · July 9, 2012

Well I don't fly one with one, but I have once. I guess I would consider it more a computer than a radio but that's beside the point. Like I said, do what you want. I wouldn't feel comfortable after 10 days but that's me.

I recall flying through moderate icing and closer to my max power than I like to be with the weather at my destination turning out much worse than was predicted and upon approach my LOC went intermittent and became unusable so I ended up using a non IFR GPS to fly the needle on a VOR approach which is technically wrong but what can you do. I felt experience was worth it. I've had a friend whose gotten to their destination and didn't break out so without fuel for an alternate they ended up dropping below MDA in hopes of breaking out (they did), and one who's picked up icing so bad that the aircraft wasn't able to maintain altitude, and several that have had do declare a fuel emergency at their alternate after picking up icing in holding. At that point a missed approach is not an option. Just seems to me things can go bad easily IMC and while some of those things can be chocked up to a lack of experience in planning that's basically my point.

Like I said in my earlier post, the OP is probably trying to check a block. There are not many single pilot IFR helicopters out there and they all have full autopilots and multiple backup systems. Sounds to me like the experiences you just covered were in fixed wing, so I am guessing you are a fixed wing pilot? Unlike fixed wing, you are not going to find many helicopter pilots that will get their IFR ratings and then immediately be out flying in IMC. And definitely not by themselves. Like I said, it's more of a 'check the block' rating for helicopter pilots. If at any point in the OP's career he will actually be flying in IMC, I am quite certain he would be brought up to speed on procedures and equipment by his employer.

Edited July 9, 2012 by nightsta1ker

Shenanigan · July 9, 2012

Agreed experience helps. But wether they got the rating in 10 days or 90 days, learning in a basic trainer won't help that much. Neither will a flight computer.

If they don't make things easier thany why would anyone buy one.

Shenanigan · July 9, 2012

Like I said in my earlier post, the OP is probably trying to check a block. There are not many single pilot IFR helicopters out there and they all have full autopilots and multiple backup systems. Sounds to me like the experiences you just covered were in fixed wing, so I am guessing you are a fixed wing pilot? Unlike fixed wing, you are not going to find many helicopter pilots that will get their IFR ratings and then immediately be out flying in IMC. And definitely not by themselves. Like I said, it's more of a 'check the block' rating for helicopter pilots. If at any point in the OP's career he will actually be flying in IMC, I am quite certain he would be brought up to speed on procedures and equipment by his employer.

Helicopter

nightsta1ker · July 9, 2012

Helicopter

And what are you flying, exactly?

helonorth · July 9, 2012

Lol, now that's funny. Made me start laughing and look more like an idiot than I normally do.

Yeah, Maybe he wanted to take his certificate and build a paper hat out of it, but I assumed it was to fly in the clouds.

Show me an pilot with wet ink on their IR flying SPIFR and i'll eat that paper hat! C'mon people, let's get with reality.

C of G · July 9, 2012

If they don't make things easier thany why would anyone buy one.

Well not for flying in icing and breaking minimums, I assure you.

Look, you said he needs more than 10 days because helicopters are ill equipped for IFR. I strongly disagree on the equipment part. Honestly, so does the FAA. They know the difference between trainer aircraft and the real deal glass cockpit experience disparity. What aircraft did you get your Instrument ticket in? How was it equipped? Better than the IFR one you fly now? I'd be interested to know what helicopters you fly that are IFR that don't have a GPS in them or an auto pilot/second pilot. I've flown a bunch and they all had a GPS or an FMS.

helonorth · July 9, 2012

Another thread that almost immediately goes off the rails.

C of G · July 9, 2012

Who knows of a school in the US that can do an accelerated instrument check ride prep and provide a DPE without delay?

Try www.heli.com

they did a package ATP a while back. R22/H300/BH206 Should have plenty of DPEs

Pohi · July 9, 2012

Show me an pilot with wet ink on their IR flying SPIFR and i'll eat that paper hat! C'mon people, let's get with reality.

I was laughing at the statement, humorous wording.

I agree, odds are that somebody is not gonna run right out and fly ifr. But.... It is possible, and that is what the certificate is for.

I know a corporate jet pilot that did an accelerated helicopter add on to go and immediately fly for his boss when the boss bought a helicopter. Granted, it was VFR(as far as I know, I never asked if he flew the helicopter IFR).

My point is that it does happen rarely.

nightsta1ker · July 9, 2012

If I'm not mistaken, there are no single pilot IFR ships without full autopilot.

Slasher · July 15, 2012

Just check in on CIVIC HELICOPTERS, McCllelan Airport, Carlsbad Ca. You'll sure get it done real fast and cheap. The FLYIT Sim available there is awesome!