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OH-58 VS. UH-60


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First!

 

Therefore best.

 

Seriously though. Lets be real. My aircraft is the old one. The unloved one. The least powerful, the slowest, and the least complex (systems wise).

 

That makes it awesome. No doors. Good navigation system. f*cking machineguns and rockets. We are great pilots due to power management. No automation. The MMS is fun to play with. Good laser. Good community. We are the "cowboys" of the Army aviation world.

 

Simple means high readiness. Good amount of flight hours. Hell, the 58D community is damn close to 1 million combat flight hours since OEF/OIF kicked off.

 

I mean really. No doors. You will see in BWS. Everyone gets a taste of being a scout pilot.

Edited by akscott60
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great topic!!!

 

I'm not a REAL PILOT yet but the OH-58 time would look better after your career if you wanted to get into an EMS flight spot or Police flight spot being that is relatively the same aircraft...

 

however the uh-60, i would think from the outside looking in, has a more versatile role while you are in being medevac, assault, support whatever so the flight hours might be more with that while you are in...

 

those were a few thoughts i had about it so far...

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First!

 

Therefore best.

 

Seriously though. Lets be real. My aircraft is the old one. The unloved one. The least powerful, the slowest, and the least complex (systems wise).

 

That makes it awesome. No doors. Good navigation system. f*cking machineguns and rockets. We are great pilots due to power management. No automation. The MMS is fun to play with. Good laser. Good community. We are the "cowboys" of the Army aviation world.

 

Simple means high readiness. Good amount of flight hours. Hell, the 58D community is damn close to 1 million combat flight hours since OEF/OIF kicked off.

 

I mean really. No doors. You will see in BWS. Everyone gets a taste of being a scout pilot.

 

 

Now can you explain to me the mission of the OH-58, I understand it is recon and attack but anything else? I would be afraid that the mission would get old if its just recon and attack all day every day, is there a variety with the OH58 mission wise?

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Now can you explain to me the mission of the OH-58, I understand it is recon and attack but anything else? I would be afraid that the mission would get old if its just recon and attack all day every day, is there a variety with the OH58 mission wise?

 

I can't agree with you on this. Recon and attack missions would vary a lot! Who you are shooting at, who's shooting at you, where on this planet you are shooting or getting shot at etc. Compare that to a flight instructing jobs, EMS, Tours, all of those jobs would be the same sort of thing every flight also (I am not saying these jobs are boring). My point is I don't think flying attack and recon missions would ever get boring! Flying helicopters in general has never been boring for myself, even if it is just patterns, I am still flying the best machine on this planet.

 

I cannot comment on them supporting other roles. I would believe they transport troops, and if need be transport wounded soldiers. I'm sure akscoutt60 or SBuzzkill will be able to fill us in on everything they do.

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great topic!!!

 

I'm not a REAL PILOT yet but the OH-58 time would look better after your career if you wanted to get into an EMS flight spot or Police flight spot being that is relatively the same aircraft...

 

however the uh-60, i would think from the outside looking in, has a more versatile role while you are in being medevac, assault, support whatever so the flight hours might be more with that while you are in...

 

those were a few thoughts i had about it so far...

 

I would imagine UH-60 time would translate well into a flying gig in the Coast Guard.

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I cannot comment on them supporting other roles. I would believe they transport troops, and if need be transport wounded soldiers. I'm sure akscoutt60 or SBuzzkill will be able to fill us in on everything they do.

 

With the exception of literally strapping yourself in front of the engine of a -64, there's no room for pax on 58s or 64s. ...I don't know that a 58 could take off if you strapped a person on, or if there's a good place to do so.

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This was the second half of my flight on a mission I did a couple weeks ago. We swap duties every day and unfortunately for me it was the other crew's turn for taking patients on the day they had a DoD photographer on the LZ, but this is basically my life for the next several months:

 

620975_10151136869455719_314596076_o.jpg

 

I've been asked to fly behind Chinooks to help carry cargo/pax, I've been asked to conduct reconnaissance, and I've been asked to use my door gunners to kill a guy who was shooting RPGs at friendly forces. As a Black Hawk pilot I've been able to experience every type of mission that the other airframes accomplish regularly. 47/58/64 pilots can't say the same. And that means they miss out on the most rewarding mission you can possibly do in a helicopter. Nothing comes close to getting a critically wounded soldier off of the battlefield and into a hospital just in time to save his life.

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We've been supporting a bunch of training the guys on the ground have been doing lately and it has been a great learning experience. The other day we were planning a team flight when our AMC decided to call the CO of some MPs he knew were out in the field just to ask if they had any training we could get in on. As a scout pilot you will spend a lot of time integrating with ground units because they are your mission.

 

Well anyway, we ended up getting on station while their ECP was being attacked. We dropped a chem light on the enemy and kept in radio contact relaying what we saw. After about 15 minutes things died down and we just orbited and I did some sight work, then we broke station got some gas and went off into the local AO for some orientation and some instrument work.

 

Anyways, their 6 called us the next day to tell us how much of a boost that chem light gave his guys. Apparently us dropping that chem light allowed them to see where the enemy was and that gave them the morale and momentum to end the attack.

 

Now that was just here stateside in training, and for now that's all I can speak for.

 

And like I've said before, no mission is as black and white as people think it is. Scouting is a skill that I have just nicked the surface of. It's impressive to see how quickly an experienced scout pilot gains situation awareness and starts seeing things that you would have never thought to notice. There's a lot to this mission and the learning curve is steep.

Edited by SBuzzkill
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No 60 guys want to sell their airframe?

 

Nah. I'm comfortable with the size of my extremities ;)

 

Actually, D10 managed to hit my thing. I put it a different way though, usually. (Scouts go ahead and adjust as necessary to make it fit your airframe :) )

 

"I may never fly it, but the DAP proves you can put guns on a Hawk...I don't think I'll ever see a cargo hook on an Apache..."

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Definelty go 64's.. You actually get to remotely control OH-58s now from the front seat :P

 

Plus, I don't want to sling load anything. It's already fun enough flying gun service.

 

In all seriousness though, if you are limiting yourself to the kiwis and hawks... I like me my guns... Even if I'm only flying 90 kts

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Definelty go 64's.. You actually get to remotely control OH-58s now from the front seat :P

 

Plus, I don't want to sling load anything. It's already fun enough flying gun service.

 

In all seriousness though, if you are limiting yourself to the kiwis and hawks... I like me my guns... Even if I'm only flying 90 kts

 

It's not about the sling load, in particular. It's just a demonstration that the other aircraft are rather limited in their roles, but the hawk is able to do them all.

 

It's obviously a personal choice, and for me, the well-rounded "can do all of it" aspect of the -60 is something I love. I was forced into the airframe, being Guard, but I think I still would have chosen it if given the opportunity.

 

 

We had a cargo hook on the 58 at one time.

Yeah, but could you take off with anything attached to it?

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and I've been asked to use my door gunners to kill a guy who was shooting RPGs at friendly forces. As a Black Hawk pilot I've been able to experience every type of mission that the other airframes accomplish regularly. And that means they miss out on the most rewarding mission you can possibly do in a helicopter. Nothing comes close to getting a critically wounded soldier off of the battlefield and into a hospital just in time to save his life.


Door gunner killing a bad guy doesn't come relatively close to employing a gunship in a real CAS/DAS scenario. You're not an attack aircraft - let's not drink too much koolaid. I'm glad you could provide support though, because that's what it's all about. I think getting a call to provide close air support to Marines in need would be a equally rewarding experience.

post-26895-0-91800000-1344826117_thumb.jpg

Cobras can now do assault support!
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Door gunner killing a bad guy doesn't come relatively close to employing a gunship in a real CAS/DAS scenario. You're not an attack aircraft - let's not drink too much koolaid.

 

Seems like the same thing to me. In both cases, the bad guy ends up dead and the threat to the friendly forces is eliminated. When it comes to missions where lives are at stake, accomplishing the mission is so rewarding that everything else is overshadowed. I can't imagine shooting someone with rockets and 30mm feels any different than shooting someone with an M-240.

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I was a CE for many years on 58's and little birds (AH-6). I never really could decide when I was in flight school what I wanted. I worked hard so I could have my choice and everything but Chinooks were available (no hooks my class). I was a 58 CE but I didn't feel that attached to them because I only worked on them about a year.

 

For me it came down to duty station and I wanted to go to Europe so 58's were out. Apache's seemed alright but mostly I just wanted to do something different so I went with Hawks. I might try to go fly DAPS or maybe not.

 

Shooting guns may be one of the coolest things you can ever do in a helicopter but you should realize you don't actually shoot all that often. You won't be shooting everyday, probably not even every week. Many times you're there in case there's a fight not because there's a fight. I think sometimes people have some unrealistic expectations of what the attack mission is. I'm not saying it isn't cool or you shouldn't do it, there's still times I wish I had guns. Just don't think you're just swooping in and blowing stuff up.

 

There's a number of things you could do in a hawk, some are mind numbingly boring some are incredible (Medevac, Support- ring routes, drug mission in Hondo, Assault, VIP). I did a tour doing Medevac and it may be the most exciting and dangerous mission you could do down range. However back home you mostly train and support ranges by being on standby.

 

Whatever you get you're supposed to say is the best I guess but I would love to fly them all. I'm happy with my choice but like somebody once said on picking you're aircraft- there are no bad choices.

 

Either way you're going to get an extremely powerful modern turbine helicopter worth millions right out of flight school. Most civilians have to do years in small low powered helicopters like an R44 before anyone will let them touch a bird with a turbine engine and I get 2 turbine engines with 4000 horsepower to just mess around and "train".

 

Whatever you get, it's a cool job.

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