eagle5 Posted August 10, 2012 Report Share Posted August 10, 2012 (edited) I'm rather enjoying this, "what can CFIs log" theme, so here's another one. A CFI has to ferry an R44 from Florida to New York. He decides to sell the pilot's seat to a PPL or Com pilot who needs to build time. Lets assume the time builder is already endorsed for the R44. 1. Can they both really log the entire flight? 2. Can the CFI really justify instruction given to a rated pilot for the entire flight? 3. Is helping him navigate/avoid obstacles/make radio calls, instruction given? 4. What type of instruction could the CFI provide to someone who has already been trained to fly xc,...for the entire flight? There have been countless time building ferry flights offered on this site, but can both pilots really log the time? Thought of a couple more; 5. What if they're both CFIs? One is getting paid, the other is paying to build time because he graduated from another school with only 170hrs, and thus no one will hire him!? 6. What if the CFI hasn't flown the route before? Both will be experiencing new things together,...or does the CFI experience them first, then teach them to the other pilot? Edited August 10, 2012 by eagle5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rotormandan Posted August 10, 2012 Report Share Posted August 10, 2012 Yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chitty777 Posted August 10, 2012 Report Share Posted August 10, 2012 Not every flight is the same. If you think because you're a rated pilot and you've flown xc, but can't learn anything new then you're mistaken. That's when complacency sets in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagle5 Posted August 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 10, 2012 Not every flight is the same. If you think because you're a rated pilot and you've flown xc, but can't learn anything new then you're mistaken. That's when complacency sets in. Sure, we all learn new things, but will the pilot be learning them from the experience, or the CFI? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chitty777 Posted August 10, 2012 Report Share Posted August 10, 2012 A little bit of both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kodoz Posted August 10, 2012 Report Share Posted August 10, 2012 FAA case law suggests that, if a CFI is in the aircraft, he will be considered PIC on the basis of being responsible for the safety of the flight, even if the CFI is not providing instruction. As a CFI, it's important to understand this, especially if you are asked to come along for a ride--before agreeing, establish with the pilot who will be PIC (sole manipulator) and who will be PIC (responsible for safety). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagle5 Posted August 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 10, 2012 FAA case law suggests that, if a CFI is in the aircraft, he will be considered PIC on the basis of being responsible for the safety of the flight, even if the CFI is not providing instruction. As a CFI, it's important to understand this, especially if you are asked to come along for a ride--before agreeing, establish with the pilot who will be PIC (sole manipulator) and who will be PIC (responsible for safety). Interesting! So I guess if its your aircraft, and your just a PPL, when you ask your girlfriend (who just happens to be a CFI) to go for a ride (pehaps to go get dinner at a cool out of the way place) you should take the other controls out, so she doesn't become liable if anything goes wrong? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ridethisbike Posted August 10, 2012 Report Share Posted August 10, 2012 Interesting! So I guess if its your aircraft, and your just a PPL, when you ask your girlfriend (who just happens to be a CFI) to go for a ride (pehaps to go get dinner at a cool out of the way place) you should take the other controls out, so she doesn't become liable if anything goes wrong? That is an interesting scenario... she better not get butt hurt considering you'd be doing her a favor if something goes wrong... I also wonder if her CFI instinct would kick in at all... @kodoz: It sounds legit, but do you have any reference for that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kodoz Posted August 11, 2012 Report Share Posted August 11, 2012 Try this one...it's more complicated than liable/not liable, but it gets the point across that you better be clear what capacity you are acting in when you have that CFI certificate in your pocket. http://www.ntsb.gov/alj/o_n_o/docs/AVIATION/4384.PDF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagle5 Posted August 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 11, 2012 That is an interesting scenario... she better not get butt hurt considering you'd be doing her a favor if something goes wrong... I also wonder if her CFI instinct would kick in at all... It probably would, but with no controls, she'd be grasping at thin air! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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