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This looks safe, right?


Lindsey

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I have had to fly Snoqualmie Pass sevetral times in an R22 and only once had this encounter due to catching a storm that I thought had already passed. I was on the west side of the pass and started up into the really curvy part of the pass and there was too much low cloud an 1/4 mile vis. I went back to North Bend and landed across from the Subway to have a late lunch and wait it out. I went back out about an hour later and made it about 1.5 miles further up the pass but due to where the wires were I opted to not try it. I was low enough I could have made it without hitting wires cause semi trucks don't hit them that low either, if you catch my drift. I know now how stupid it was, so I landed back at the field by the Subway and walked over and got permission from the hotel management to move the helicopter to their parking lot. I landed in the truck parking area, got a room for the night and made sure it was close to that end of the hotel to watch over the helicopter. I left the next morning. I learned a lot about that little lesson and about where my personal mins were/are. As everyone has stated, this picture is very deceiving. On a good note, I went over to the Outlet mall and got some really good discounts on Bigdog shirts for the wife and kids!

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Looks like they're practicing IFR to me. (I follow roads). Certainly looks like they're going to be in a bad spot if there's an engine failure unless it was going 90+ kts at that low of altitude and could use all that excess speed to flare. Slow and low only works for lowriders, not so good for helicopters.

 

Sorry for the late reply, It's been a busy week! While more airspeed is usually the better choice, anything over 30 knots IMHO would be even more unsafe! I think the chance to catch a wire or tower way outweighs the possibility of an engine failure during that one hour of flight. So I guess what I'm saying, is if I absolutely HAD to go from point A to B, I would be doing it low and slow. IIMC isn't fun, neither are wires. If I'm at 40 feet and 30 knots I'm gonna really bend some skids if I have an engine failure, but I'll be back on VR in a week. If I snag a wire even at slow speed, most go down inverted or to one side, and many of those accidents are fatal. Just my thoughts....I would really hope I just landed and had breakfast and waited out the weather instead....BTW, I fly a Red R44.......but not in Wa!

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"if I absolutely HAD to go from point A to B, I would be doing it low and slow. IIMC isn't fun, neither are wires."

 

That kind of pressure killed as many aircrew in Vietnam as hostile fire. Fact. If the flight isn't in response to an immediate hazard to life, don't be nap of the earth in reduced vis, even over level ground, but especially in the mountains if you don't have a real world IFR survival plan. Mountains generate weather, especially wet and forested mountains.

Wires are everywhere. You can not count on acquiring sufficient visual reference from a wire only to see and avoid, especially when you're task saturated trying to maintain surface reference.

 

I know a lot of dead pilots, often in well equipped aircraft, and usually very well trained who were caught in similar traps.

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If I absolutely HAD to go from point A to B and all I had was a VFR ONLY ship, and the weather wasn't agreeable,...I'd land and call a cab!

 

Do whatever it takes to get the job done, is not my motto!,...and no job is worth dying for!

 

Now, what if you were in an IFR R22? Not approved for IFR flight, but has the IFR instrumentation? I only say this because you brought up VFR vs IFR. Devil's advocate ;-)

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There are two things I'd be very interested in knowing.

 

1. What were things like before this picture (i.e. how high was he, what did the view from the cockpit look like, what made him decide to go that low and continue)?

 

2. To whomever took the picture; did your hotel eventually become engulfed in fog, or did things clear up?

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I’m not a fan of criticizing other pilots by a photo or video. In fact, I prefer to stay out of other peoples cockpit cuz I’m quite certain; I don’t want them in mine.....

 

Decide on your own. Google Earth the location and fly around. If not, here is what the surrounding terrain looks like without the steamy stuff......

 

Personally, I don’t mind low visibility, mountainous terrain, night, turbulence or wires. However, I highly mind when any two or more of these conditions exist together.......

 

Edited by Spike
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Now, what if you were in an IFR R22? Not approved for IFR flight, but has the IFR instrumentation? I only say this because you brought up VFR vs IFR. Devil's advocate ;-)

 

Hmmm,

 

Fly in weather that has a high probability of getting me into IIMC in an IR R22? I'll even go one step further. Lets say its an R44 IR trainer, in fact its the very IR trainer that I passed my IR checkride in!

 

So now I run the risk of losing my license, even if I don't kill myself? Lets see, how can I put this delicately?,...f*ck NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :)

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Ok guys and gals, the statement "if I HAD to get there" was only a hypothetical so I could respond to the difference between flying fast and low vs. low and slow in a low altitude wire environment. It never had anything to do with an "actual" decision I would even consider. To each his own (or her in Lindsey's case!), but in that kind of vis, I have seen it just go to zero in an instant...Hence my comments were meant to get some discussion going about flying slow at low altitudes in low viz, and operate well into the HV curve, rather than operate in the "safer" part of the curve and risk a wire strike. That is all the comment was intended for.

 

Sorry if some of you thought I would actually fly in that crap, or even try to justify it. Many pilots here are a whole lot better than me, more power to them......which is why you would find me stuffing my face on the side of the road.

Edited by Goldy
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Ok guys and gals, the statement "if I HAD to get there" was only a hypothetical so I could respond to the difference between flying fast and low vs. low and slow in a low altitude wire environment. It never had anything to do with an "actual" decision I would even consider. To each his own (or her in Lindsey's case!), but in that kind of vis, I have seen it just go to zero in an instant...Hence my comments were meant to get some discussion going about flying slow at low altitudes in low viz, and operate well into the HV curve, rather than operate in the "safer" part of the curve and risk a wire strike. That is all the comment was intended for.

 

Sorry if some of you thought I would actually fly in that crap, or even try to justify it. Many pilots here are a whole lot better than me, more power to them......which is why you would find me stuffing my face on the side of the road.

 

Alright then,...no, I wouldn't fly in the HV diagram because of low visibility. I would still just land, order a pizza, and wait 'til it clears!

 

There are times when I gamble that I'm less likely to have an engine failure then have something else go wrong, so I slow down, but this isn't one of them.

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