April 2012 Army CWO Active Duty Promotion Results

[zaurus]

The Army Chief Warrant Officer promotion list was compiled by the selection board that met April 23-May 4, 2012

 

Primary Zone Selection Rates for CWO were:

 

Aviation

 

CW5 -- 21.0 percent (181 considered, 38 selected)

 

CW4 -- 60.6 percent (160 considered, 97 selected)

 

CW3 -- 58.4 percent (291 considered, 170 selected)

 

Technical Services

 

CW5 -- 26.1 percent (157 considered, 41 selected)

 

CW4 -- 80.6 percent (288 considered, 232 selected)

 

CW3 -- 74.5 percent (642 considered, 478 selected)

 

http://www.quad-a.org/images/p...011/Reese1011p14.pdf

[Lindsey]

Thanks for posting this Zaurus--I've seen those stats floating around on other boards and they have obviously generated a lot of discussion (low promotion rates). Would a few active duty CWOs step in and kind of give a breakdown on what Warrant Officers need to do to make themselves competitive for promotion? Likewise, we also don't have anything on these forums about the progression (RL2, RL1) a warrant needs to focus on when they arrive to their first unit.

 

While this is obviously far beyond the 25 meter target for us civilians, this information would help to frame the whole picture that we, so focused on flight school selection, tend to be completely ignorant about.

[akscott60]

God CW3 promotion rates suck. RLOs can pretty much guarantee O5. We have to bust ass to make the first boarded promotion. I hope it improves eventually.

[zaurus]

akscott60

 

The primary reason why the selection rate was extremmly high for O-5 was the expansion of troops needed for the surge in 07-08. Not enough field grade Officers. With the reduction in force in the near future, those numbers will decrease sharply.

 

For AWOs, the promotion board sent out the MESSAGE that the peace time Army promotion rates are now in full EFFECT. Being ONLY a proficient pilot will not guarantee you promotion in your career or making retirement. All AWOs are briefed often in what's required in being promotable. Quite a few did not heed the warning from HRC. If you wish to be only a pilot in the Army, dust off your civilian clothes, resume and start packing, you won't make retirement.

 

For all those who have their heart set on being an Army Aviator, you best thoroughly understand not only the selection process but what it takes in having a successful career as an Army Aviation Warrant Officer. For those civilian applicants, military flight pay is less than 10% of your total pay. You are an Officer first and always.

[akscott60]

Sir, I am aware that we have to be officers first and pilots second. I just find that out first board promotion barely over 50% to be disheartening. I will just do my best.

Edited September 7, 2012 by akscott60

[av8rnik]

zaurus, not that this changes anything for me personally but i am curious. Do you consider this a "bad" time to be coming in to the WO Corps and aviation from the civilian side? Or is it more that those coming in just need to be aware of the conditions and effort that will be needed to stay competitive?

[d10]

Would a few active duty CWOs step in and kind of give a breakdown on what Warrant Officers need to do to make themselves competitive for promotion?

 

Civilian and Military education (should have at least an associate's degree before CW3, preferably a bachelor's, and completion of the WO Advanced Course) and an OER history showing increasing levels of responsibility and the capability to handle a range of duties (you should be able to go through PI->PC->Tracked and have at least a couple OERs in your tracked position prior to the CW3 board and be willing to PCS often to take different assignments, even if some pull you away from the cockpit for a while). If you can do these things it shouldn't be hard to put yourself in the top 50%.

[Lindsey]

Thanks, D10. Can you (or someone else) give insight on what a new aviator needs to do to progress through RL2, RL1, PC, etc. Is there some sort of checklist that needs to be completed (a checklist of maneuvers, etc), or is it just when the PC feels you are "ready"?

 

Also, it is my understanding that tracking is largely dependent on the unit's needs at the time. How would you make yourself competitive within your unit to get a coveted tracking slot?

[Bobsyouruncle]

I'll never understand the thinking that we must transition to a peacetime Army. Train as you fight is more than a catchy slogan.

 

You're an officer first. Sounds great, but if you can't fly no amount of extraneous BS will ever get you promoted- and that's reality. I know a guy with almost a thousand hours, a bachelors degree, and the advanced course, received an award for running the CFC program, was the only person in the company to get a commendable for his extra duty (where he received another award) who still has not made PC. Think that guy got promoted- No.

 

Another guy who was in flight school with the first guy is overweight, doesn't have a lick of college, hasn't been to the staff course and has 600 PC hours and is an IP. He's the guy that got promoted.

 

Yeah, be an officer- show up on time, use military courtesy, get your hair cut, stay in shape but none of that crap will kill people. Being a crappy pilot will kill people.

 

The real reason promotion rates are down is because the Army can never figure out how many people it needs. A few years ago anyone with a pulse is getting promoted (and I mean even pre 9-11 so it wasn't surge related), then all of a sudden it's "whoa, we have too many CW3's and 4's..." and in typical Army fashion the kneejerk reaction is to cut promotions and get rid of perfectly good people. Now, guaranteed in a year or two some number cruncher at G1 will be looking at his projections for the future and go "Whoa, we don't have enough CW3's, and 4's...." and next thing you know the cycle starts again with them promoting every dirtbag to ever wear a dot because they need bodies.

[d10]

I wouldn't worry too much about RL Progression. Flight school was redesigned years ago to enable units to designate new pilots RL2 without a single flight. I've never heard of a unit taking advantage of that, but the tasks you need to be proficient in to make RL2 is the same stuff you'll need to do to graduate flight school. You're just doing it all again with a unit IP. RL1 consists of mission tasks specific to each unit, so there might be some new stuff there, but that's usually only a few maneuvers that get signed off in one or two flights. But it's all about knowing the maneuvers, the aircraft (EPs, limits, preflight/startup/shutdown), and the basic flight school academics. You could maybe learn your local area and the training reservation procedures, but some unit IPs discourage that because it's not required for RL Progression. If there's a backlog you might be able to put yourself at the front of the line by handling your additional duties well and studying visibly. Get in the books every day right in the middle of your office and talk about stuff with the other pilots, even if you learn better on your own. But other than that, the only thing that really slows progression down is making yourself unavailable. Don't take a week of leave each month if you value progressing quickly. Hopefully that's common sense, but it happens. I guess people have different priorities.

 

PC is a lot more complicated. Obviously you'll have to show that you can handle an aircraft, plus maturity and good decision making. There's probably a checklist and I'd recommend getting started on it as soon as you make RL1. Even if your unit says they don't use one, look around in your unit's SOPs for one anyway. Your brigade might have a standardized checklist that your company chooses not to use, but when a new SP/Commander comes in who wants to use it, you're going to be way behind if you haven't been working on it already. There are a ton of other factors too though, many of which are out of your control. Most units will aim to make about 50% of their pilots PCs, whether consciously or subconsciously, even though there's no limit to how many PCs you can make and no disadvantage to doing so. If you get stuck in a unit that's heavy on PCs, you could be waiting a while. Some units will have flight hour requirements, whether official or unofficial. My first unit had an official requirement of 300 hours, but your name would never be mentioned in the PC discussion until at least 500, and nobody was ever boarded before 600. Some units will offer PC as a "reward." Korea is notorious for offering PCs only to guys who extend for a second year. I was told I could make PC about 6 months early if I took a track I didn't want (I declined). It can be political, too. I've heard some ridiculous explanations by some pilots in PC boards why somebody shouldn't be made a PC. If someone doesn't like you, they can find a reason to hold you back. Bottom line is you have to get your unit's support. Particularly your Commander's and SP's support. You should be able to get a pretty good idea about how to make that happen after a few months in a unit.

 

The easiest way to track is to make yourself available to PCS anywhere at anytime. Your unit might not have any tracked slots available but there are always slots available somewhere. You can arrange to get the necessary school enroute. Other than that try to figure out what you want to track ASAP, even well before you make PC, and make it known. Especially make it known to the guys in your unit already filling that track. If a slot does open up in your unit, your commander will probably rely heavily on the recommendation of those guys to figure out who should fill it. They'll also be the ones writing your LORs to send to the branch manager in order to open up that PCS option. If you want to track IP, make it known that you're already a civilian helicopter CFII. That will give you a huge advantage. Most military pilots only know that the military equivalent to that is like the pinnacle of the aviation ladder. But even those that know it's an entry level job in the civilian world will consider it an accomplishment. You should actually make that known whether you plan on tracking IP or not. It will make progression and making PC easier for you too.

[Lindsey]

Awesome, thanks d10! I would love to track IP.

[d10]

Bob,

 

I'm with you on not understanding the emphasis the Army's placing on Officer over Aviator. I've had two good friends killed in two separate aviation accidents that were both caused by pilot error. I've seen guys so caught up in taking care of their careers by knocking out online college courses for an ERAU professional aeronautics degree that they lose SA on the units and operations in our area and refuse to conduct much needed training flights. Those guys are a liability in the cockpit. One of them just added a class B accident to his record and cost the Army hundreds of thousands of dollars executing a poor dust landing that likely would have been avoided if he had just taken the time to conduct a weekly training flight. It's only a matter of time before we lose another aircrew due to pilot error. I just hope I've seen the last of my friends going out like that. I'm all for being a good officer but degrees and tracks won't get you there. An aviation officer should be a competent aviator above all else. These are the guys getting promoted though. I think your assessment is wrong. Over the last two boards I've seen a lot of PIs promoted to W3 and a lot of go-to PCs (both tracked and untracked) passed over. The Army's getting the guys they want. They just aren't always the guys I would want.

[Lindsey]

Maybe I'm completely missing something, but why would people turn down flights? Classwork can be done later, but didn't people go through the WOFT process to fly?

[akscott60]

Careerism

[d10]

Some people went enlisted->flight school because they thought being a pilot would be easier and pay better than whatever job they had previously and they were so tired of the Army they just wanted a way to coast to retirement.

[heloidaho]

Fun discussion in this thread. I don't really have anything valuable to add, because the experienced guys gave better advice than I even have in my head.

 

So... I like puppies. Carry on.

[zaurus]

Bobsyouruncle

d10

 

For whatever reason each military service looks at aviators in the same light. Officers first and have fun flying if you can, second. Only in times of armed conflict does flying become EXTREMELY important and top priority. No need in complaining, it won't change in your lifetime. Peacetime = Careerism unfortunately.

[av8rnik]

A lot of great information to absorb, thanks d10 and bob. How much do people think about this stuff before the end of their time at Rucker?

 

The CW4 who wrote one of my LORs and a CW4 who was helping give some guidance on other parts both shared similar input as what was shared above about progression, tracking and PC.

[heloidaho]

Av8rnik,

 

These are topics brought up in flight school a decent amount. You get CW5s telling you similar advice in BOLC and various briefs. It isn't sugar coated. They talk openly about the changes as we transition to peace time and the need to be more than pilot.

[SBuzzkill]

d10 said some excellent things that I would like to expand upon.

 

While progression is one of the first things everyone goes through at a new unit and is essentially automatic, it's not something you just cruise through. Once you make RL1 and start flying with PCs you will be eaten alive if you only rely on what you learned in flight school to get through progression. Study hard and learn the extra stuff and make it a goal to come out of progression with a flying leap towards making PC. Never let go of the basics, but fill in the normal print that follows the bold. Learn your unit's SOP.

 

You may not jump right into progression either. If that is the case, start studying anyway. I ended up starting progression out of chronological order because I had my nose in the books and the other guy didn't. We were given a no notice examination called The Decider and I scored twice what he did simply because I made it a goal to learn the local regs and SOPs. It also helped that I took the WOJG duties seriously and didn't get an attitude when the guys f*cked with me.

 

You will drop off the flight schedule once you make RL1, but if you are proactive enough and manage your duty day well (to always be available for the MTPs) you can fly twice as much as the other pilots. I can't remember how many times I got to fly because I still had duty day left and the other guys didn't but it was pretty significant. Front load your NG/H/N time so that you're not stuck towards the end of your semi-annual period scrambling for 2 hours of hood time. And for God's sake don't be that guy who gets bumped back to RL3 because he didn't complete his CBAT/ROCV training.

[SBuzzkill]

Consider also that progression is one of the many important first impressions you will be making on your unit.

[av8rnik]

So given the trend thatnthenArmy is moving towards a peacetime environment and lower promotion rates for now, why stay in after you finish your six years?

[JBX11B]

Careerism

I saw the tides change in the later part of the Reagan yrs, the H. Bush yrs, and Clinton yrs. Was told of the same after Korea (big institutional change that remained since), and Vietnam by those I served with in my early yrs.

All promotions and career hurdles are thrown before you as a knee-jerk reaction by the johnny come latelys at big army.

Your timing of service and ability to navigate these stumbling blocks, have a greater influence on the outcome of your career than the quality of your service.

Careerism is what kills the quality of the overall service, turns ones priorities into self-preservation at all cost, ethical default rampant throughout the chain of command all the way to the top, and a "corporate" mindset that has no place in the armed services.

 

To sum it up: Military Sucks!

[Bobsyouruncle]

Off topic, but I was thinking- we memorize a lot of stupid s&$@ in Army aviation. I'm glad the Army has taught me that if an Apache appears to be growing bigger it is probably getting closer, no kidding.

[akscott60]

Im glad that an Apache pilot told me they cant see sh*t, especially us 58s.