Does Airframe matter at all when going for CW3 promotion ??

[FLYC2A]

Does Airframe matter at all when going for promtion to CW3 ???

 

Maybe thats a silly question...but do some airfames have higher promotion % compared to others ??

I always wondered if a IP in a Kiowa platform is less likey to get promoted to an IP in an Apache platform. Or a Blackhawk guy vs a Hooker ....etc etc

 

what about being fixed wing ?? Its my understanding that their are a FEW people who get fixed wing right out of flight school now.

[d10]

Yes. If you're going to choose an airframe based on promotion rates go fixed wing and stay far away from Hawks.

[Yamer]

Yes. If you're going to choose an airframe based on promotion rates go fixed wing and stay far away from Hawks.

 

Whats the correct order for all the airframes?

[Lindsey]

Yes. If you're going to choose an airframe based on promotion rates go fixed wing and stay far away from Hawks.

 

Would you mind elaborating more on why promotion rates are so low for hawks? Is it really just that it is the most populous, or is there more to it (advanced course availability, deployment tempo, ability to progress to PC and track, etc)? Would an outstanding warrant officer (both an excellent aviator and officer) have as good of a shot at CW3 and beyond as, say a -58 CWO, or would maybe a more mediocre 58 warrant have a better chance, and for what reasons?

 

I plan to make the Army a career and be an outstanding Officer and Aviator at the same time. I understand this means being a smart, safe, technically and tactically sound aviator while also being an officer willing to take the tough jobs (and sometimes the non-flying ones) and attend as many practical and progressive courses/schools as I can attain. Would this be enough to secure a career or does airframe really in fact play a big part?

 

I am not planning to choose an airframe for careerism concerns, but it would be good to know if it really is a huge factor.

 

For the record, I am aware this is well beyond the 25m target. ;-)

 

Thanks!

 

[d10]

It's all about how overstrength an airframe is. Everyone is going to have the same opportunities for advanced schooling and the same deployment schedules. Making PC and tracking is actually probably easier in Black Hawks than other airframes. The promotion board is going to require a certain amount of each airframe though. So if you're in an understrength airframe you don't have to be all that good to make the cutoff. If you're in an overstrength airframe you need to be much more competitive. I don't know the order of all the airframes and even if I did they're always changing, but I know the FY11 board had a 100% selection rate for fixed wing and somewhere in the 40s for Black Hawks.

[Rob Lyman]

I think you are spot on D10. Its all about warrant officer strength in each airframe. The fixed wing guys have already been through a culling process just to get there. They also seem to be a very close knit group who takes care of their own. It is sort of a "once you're in, you're good to go" environment.

 

Looking at the rest of the airframes, those airframes that are under strength are that way for a reason. Poor retention is often the most prominent reason for it. Why do some airframes have lower retention of pilots? I'll let those communities answer that question, but you should ask yourself that question when picking an airframe.

 

If you are going into the guard after flight school, most of the airframe decision is made for you. THE most important aspect of choosing a guard airframe (if you have a choice) is the type of people flying them. The -47 guys are WAY different than the -60 guys at our unit.

[heloidaho]

Lindsey,

 

People get promoted on all airframes, so yes, if you are outstanding you can get a promotion regardless of what you pick. Or if you get really lucky you can be a dirt bag and get promoted. It is the same for all promotions across the military, from the Guard to Active Duty, to enlisted and commissioned. Someone has to fill the big positions, it just becomes a matter of competition and timing and luck.

 

FLYC2A,

 

Some people do get fixed wing right out of flight school. It isn't something you can select. You let B Co know that you are interested, then you just wait for your call back. Had a friend this last week take his last flight in the -60 course on Thursday and B Co called him up on Thursday to tell him that the fixed wing course was starting THAT DAY and short 3 people. They wanted to know if he was interested.

 

At that point they could only ask people who had finished advanced training but were waiting to graduate. He accepted the offer. He will do the fixed wing course then still go to fly -60s until he gets orders for fixed wing, if he gets them.

 

I've seen this happen a few times. Some guys stay at Rucker a loooong time. Haha. Another guy I knew did the -64 course, then fixed wing, then ALSE. Just crazy.

[CharyouTree]

Some people do get fixed wing right out of flight school. It isn't something you can select. You let B Co know that you are interested, then you just wait for your call back. Had a friend this last week take his last flight in the -60 course on Thursday and B Co called him up on Thursday to tell him that the fixed wing course was starting THAT DAY and short 3 people. They wanted to know if he was interested.

 

Ha...and one of my students said the other two guys were standing right there and were willing and able, so volunteered.

[heloidaho]

It was pretty funny. The cell phones were out trying to find eligible bodies right then. Wonderful planning in action. Good on the guys that got the course, though.

[Jester2138]

What exactly would prompt someone to choose fixed wing over rotary in the Army? I would imagine that most people who are interested in fixed wing flying would have picked another service to begin with.

[Lindsey]

What exactly would prompt someone to choose fixed wing over rotary in the Army? I would imagine that most people who are interested in fixed wing flying would have picked another service to begin with.

 

I've talked to quite a few fixed-wing warrants (interestingly, CW4s & CW5s which goes right along with this thread) and those guys decided to switch over to fixed-wing because after such a long time flying helicopters in the Army, it can get extremely tiring. Fixed-wing Army Aviation is a lot of flying VIPs/Generals around, so it's more "cush" in that sense. And their backs hurt (they all said this!).

 

Right out of flight school though, not sure. Unless they simply seek to be dual-rated, which is not itself a bad thing at all.

 

Helicopters only for me, though.

[heloidaho]

A lot of people like both sides of aviation. I hope to do fixed wing some day. Broaden my horizons and all that. There are far more prior fixed wing pilots than prior rotary wing pilots in flight school, too, so for them it is like returning to an old friend.

 

It is much more difficult to get into the other branches as a guaranteed pilot. I think that plays into the choice sometimes.

[Bobsyouruncle]

People want what they can't have and in the Army that's fixed wing because the majority of Army Aviation is rotary. In the civilian world people work their whole careers to be able to fly a dual turbine engine helicopter, but in the Army where it's almost all dual engine you have some guys dreaming about flying a relatively cheap single engine bird. I hear in the Air Force guys are fighting to fly helicopters because there are so few.

 

Personally, I wouldn't choose your airframe based off some perceived ease of promotion. These things are up and down, next thing you know they'll be a republican president and once again the military is growing and promoting everybody, then 4 years after that it's shrinking again. Then they're getting rid of this airframe, or deploying to this spot... These promotion rates are too unpredictable.

 

But, as a matter of mathematics the field that will be the most consistent in promotions will be the largest. These promotions are based off percentages and in a small field a small amount of people can create huge fluctuations in promotions. As you can imagine if for example only 5 CW5's are permitted, and none of those guys retire than 0% pickup. Now 3 of those guys retire and bang, everyone gets excited "promotion for CW5 is at 60%" then next year everyone is shocked it's back down to zero. An exaggeration, but basically that's how the system works.