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Do safety pilots work the same as fixed wing?


Rotortramp

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I know in the fixed wing side of the world the topic of logging time as a safety pilot comes up alot and gets some good hangar talk going. I'm curious if it works the same in the rotor wing world. I dont see too much discussion about it but assuming that the R22 is ifr certified and pilots are on the quest to build the 200 hours this seems like good way to build time on a budget while under the hood. Maybe I'm missing something though <_<

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No, the R22 is not IFR certified, but if it was, and one was really flying IFR, then one would not need a safety pilot. Since the R22 is not IFR certified for actual IFR flight, one can put on a hood and do simulated IFR flying, as long as there is a safety pilot or CFII in the aircraft as well. So yes, the rules would be the same. You can go shoot approaches in an R22 under the hood with a safety pilot as long as they are appropriately rated to fly an R22 and meet all of the SFAR 73 criteria for PIC.

Edited by nightsta1ker
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Haha! I guess I'm wearing my ignorance on my sleeve. Perhaps IFR equipped is the right language? Its been awhile since I've flown so assuming no IMC, one pilot is manipulating the controls while the other is ensuring safety and thus both get PIC time, right? The situation in my head was vfr to an airport 50 miles away and back.

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A pilot has to maintain their IFR currency every six months, if that pilot does not maintain that currency, they have another six months to do simulated IFR with a safety pilot. If they exceed that six month window, they need to get an instrument proficiency check with a CFII.

 

 

Assuming the pilot to be under the hood meets the above criteria, as a safety pilot you can log PIC as long as there is an agreement with the other pilot that you will be acting as PIC while that pilot is under the hood and is the sole manipulator of the controls. You also must be fully qualified to act as PIC for that aircraft. Otherwise, you can log SIC to just be the extra set of eyes for that operation.

Edited by nightsta1ker
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Its been awhile since I've flown so assuming no IMC, one pilot is manipulating the controls while the other is ensuring safety and thus both get PIC time, right?

 

The pilot wearing the view limiting device ma log the flight time as PIC under 14 CFR 61.51(e)(1)(i), if he or she is rated in the aircraft.

 

The safety pilot is required under 91.109(B), and may log time as PIC in accordance with 61.51(e)(1)(iii), if the safety pilot is the acting PIC and is rated in the aircraft (and meets all the requirements to act as PIC (medical, flight review, recency of experience).

 

In this case, the safety pilot may only log the time as PIC for the period that the view limiting device is worn by the pilot manipulating the controls. When the device comes off, the safety pilot may remain the pilot in command, but may not log the time. If the pilot flying removes the view limiting device, he or she may continue to log PIC as the sole manipulator of the controls, but the safety pilot, who is still the acting PIC (the actual pilot in command of the flight) can't log the time, as he or she is no longer required and the aircraft no longer requires a second crew member under its operating rules.

 

There's no controversy at all surrounding the logging of time; the regulation is quite clear. Few bother to take the time to read and understand the regulation, but instead guess: hence, the confusion.

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No, the R22 is not IFR certified, but if it was, and one was really flying IFR, then one would not need a safety pilot. Since the R22 is not IFR certified for actual IFR flight, one can put on a hood and do simulated IFR flying, as long as there is a safety pilot or CFII in the aircraft as well. So yes, the rules would be the same. You can go shoot approaches in an R22 under the hood with a safety pilot as long as they are appropriately rated to fly an R22 and meet all of the SFAR 73 criteria for PIC.

 

 

If I was in an R22 flying IFR, and I happened to survive it...... I wouldnt want my name associated with that flight ANYWHERE!!! ;)

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So, you're an instrument rated pilot who wants to build some time. You decide to go on a xc night flight while under a hood. You offer the safety pilot seat to another time building Commercial Pilot at the school (who is non instrument rated).

 

- Do you require him to split the cost of the flight?

- Do you offer to pay a larger share because you will be the only one at the controls?

- Do you pay him?

- As the safety pilot, how much are you willing to pay to just sit there and watch for traffic,...and mountains?

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That would be 50/50 at best, according to the regulation, but only by agreement. If I were the guy who needed a safety pilot, I wouldn't be asking to split cost though. And if I were the safety pilot, I wouldn't offer. The safety pilot is really doing the other pilot a favor just by being there. I've done this once or twice with a friend in a Piper Warrior. He paid for the plane, and I was just happy to be along for the ride.

 

That's just my opinion, you can do whatever you want to.

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Ha! I think this one is pretty cut and dry though. I know there's even law judge interpretation rulings or whatever out there that say both can log it, so long as one is under the hood and both are rated with current medical blah blah blah

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I would log all the time as dual instruction given, and I would make my writing so sloppy that it would inadvertently look like S-92...oooops...sorry.

 

Now we're getting some real fudging done ! Ah, the fudge thread has been resurrected.

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So, you're an instrument rated pilot who wants to build some time. You decide to go on a xc night flight while under a hood. You offer the safety pilot seat to another time building Commercial Pilot at the school (who is non instrument rated).

 

Bear in mind that under an arrangement in which the safety pilot will be acting as pilot in command (the arrangement under discussion here, in which both pilots are able to log the time), your'e not really offering the seat...you're not in charge. The safety pilot is. That is, he or she has full legal command and control of the flight, and is the pilot in command, having ultimate responsibility for the safe outcome of the flight. In this case, you're sole manipulator of the controls, but not in charge, not in command of the flight, and it's not actually your flight. That right and privilege belongs to the pilot in command.

 

If you simply want a safety pilot and want to retain PIC authority and responsibility, then the safety pilot can't log PIC, and shouldn't be expected to pay for the flight. He or she isn't receiving anything of value.

 

If the safety pilot is a private pilot and is acting as pilot in command, and logging the time, the FAA Chief Legal Counsel has determined that the logging of flight time is compensation: the safety pilot in this case is required under the regulation to pay his or her pro rata share of the flight expenses.

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Which would you like, specifically? Let me know, and I'll look it up this evening.

 

You can review the Chief Legal Counsel interpretations and search them at:

 

http://www.faa.gov/about/office%5Forg/headquarters%5Foffices/agc/pol%5Fadjudication/agc200/Interpretations/

 

It's possible to go back and cite renderings for every single point of the discussion, but this is such a frequent topic of conversation on web boards (and surprisingly so misunderstood) that usually providing correct information is enough, rather than constantly looking it up and re-typing it.

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