Plenty of WOFT but any Navy/Marine brothers/sisters out there?

[Lindsey]

Just checking

[zaurus]

NvayNFO

 

Do you have any Navy CWOs going through training with you at Pensacola? For those who may not know, the Navy has CWOs as aviators as well but they need previous Navy enlisted experience before being selected without exception.

[wopilot]

NvayNFO

 

Do you have any Navy CWOs going through training with you at Pensacola? For those who may not know, the Navy has CWOs as aviators as well but they need previous Navy enlisted experience before being selected without exception.

 

CWO's that can fly P-3's and Helo's.. kind of a cool program.

[Yamer]

Interesting... Didnt know...

[Lindsey]

In case anyone was looking to Fly Navy, this is your chance:

 

Due to NRC needing to select the maximum numbers of both NFO and Pilot from the applications submitted, to not only fill immediate vacancies in the upcoming 31Mar, 21Apr, and 12May OCS classes (to meet remaining FY13 shipping goals), but also allow us to start identifying our first round of FY14 shippers (ship in the July-Sept timeframe), both the NFO and Pilot boards had a 100% selection rate among the applications considered (25 NFO apps and 115 Pilot apps).

 

I realize that this forum is very Army/WOFT-centric, so maybe some of you lurkers will see this, register, and contribute to this forum with regard to options in the other branches of service.

[Jester2138]

Due to NRC needing to select the maximum numbers of both NFO and Pilot from the applications submitted, to not only fill immediate vacancies in the upcoming 31Mar, 21Apr, and 12May OCS classes (to meet remaining FY13 shipping goals), but also allow us to start identifying our first round of FY14 shippers (ship in the July-Sept timeframe), both the NFO and Pilot boards had a 100% selection rate among the applications considered (25 NFO apps and 115 Pilot apps).

 

English please

[jag32]

In case anyone was looking to Fly Navy, this is your chance:

 

 

 

I realize that this forum is very Army/WOFT-centric, so maybe some of you lurkers will see this, register, and contribute to this forum with regard to options in the other branches of service.

 

Hmmm.... that is quite interesting. My WOFT is submitted and I will be on the May 13 board, however that is also very tempting. I would require an age waiver, but i'm sure i'd get it. Ship life is almost a deal breaker though. I was deployed on the 24th MEU on the USS Nassau in 2008, we spent the entire deployment off the ship but the predeployment workup required extended periods of time on ship and it was miserable, I couldn't imagine doing that for years, even if I was a Naval Aviator. We'll see what happens on the May 13 WOFT board, if i'm not selected then i'll start seriously pursuing other avenues.

[Rob1237051]

I was on a crew that went out to a Navy ship for DLQs. All I remember is some "seaman" asking if we were hungry...We all replied in the affirmative expecting a free lunch...We never saw that guy again. To summarize, I hate the Navy.

[SBuzzkill]

I am in the NAVY, and also in flight school. So if you have any questions about NAVY aviation talk to me. By the way the age for pilots is 27, with a 24 month waiver up to your 29th birthday if you are prior service. This is how I got screwed out of my pilot slot, so I can tell you all you need to know about that.

 

What does an NFO do in flight school? Do you actually wiggle the sticks?

[Hotdogs]

What does an NFO do in flight school? Do you actually wiggle the sticks?

 

Depends on the aircraft. NFOs typically start off doing a shortened primary "pilot appreciation" and then pretty much are along for the ride after that. Similar training as they have to have the basic VFR and IFR skills associating with flying and later on they begin working with radar systems and intercepts. All second hand knowledge from my WSO buddies flying out of Miramar.

[akscott60]

The best "WSO" gig in the military is the F15E.

 

It is equipped with dual controls.

[SBuzzkill]

Interesting. Thanks for the info.

[mxg0166]

Marine who has completed the T-6 portion of training. I went to Vance, which is a cancelled program, but I can answer general questions about the process. I can tell you second hand what I know about primary from my buddies who did it at Pcola or Corpus

[SemperGumby]

Does the Corps have Warrant Officers in aviation? I haven't really looked it up and the only Warrants I knew about when I was a grunt were the Battalion Gunner, someone from IPAC, and someone from NBC.

[mxg0166]

No warrants in USMC aviation. The Navy had a flying warrant program, but it was for guys already in the Navy. I heard it has been cancelled, but dont quote me. They were restricted to helos, p-3s, e-3's. Had a few of them I went through API with.

[SemperGumby]

I'm not surprised that there's no Marine Warrants in aviation. I asked because one of my IPs used to be an fixed wing instructor down in Pcola and mentioned that they gave Navy flight Warrants a tough time. Thanks for the info.

 

I would love to have gone the Marine aviation route but by the time I got my act together, I was too old with a huge break in service.

[jag32]

I'm not surprised that there's no Marine Warrants in aviation. I asked because one of my IPs used to be an fixed wing instructor down in Pcola and mentioned that they gave Navy flight Warrants a tough time. Thanks for the info.

 

I would love to have gone the Marine aviation route but by the time I got my act together, I was too old with a huge break in service.

I often get asked why I don't put in an ECP package with an aviation guarantee. There are an absurd amount of Marine aviators who spend years as FACs, JTACs, Air-Os, etc. and spend a large portion of their careers outside of the wing. By no means am I a Marine aviator, however I have had a unique experience during my career in the Marines and it is important to understand that when you join the Marine Corps to be an aviator, you are first and foremost a Marine officer and that can take you ANYWHERE. Go read the bios of a lot of these Marine O-5s and O-6s who began their careers as aviators.

 

In fact, check this one out: http://www.iimef.mar...ric-steidl.aspx

 

"In August 1999, he was reassigned to Headquarters Marine Corps (Installations and Logistics) where he served in the Land Use and Military Construction Branch."

 

"In June 2008, he was reassigned to the Office of the Secretary of Defense (Personnel and Readiness) and served as the Senior USMC Readiness Analyst. During this tour, he worked on a variety of readiness projects and served as the briefer to the Under Secretary of Defense (Personnel and Readiness) for the Secretary of Defense Deployment Operations Book."

 

No thank you. I'll take the collateral duties you naturally have as an Army WO aviator any day over spending years in the "Land Use and Military Construction Branch."

 

And this isn't even aviation specific, but rather commissioned officer specific. Regardless of whether you commission as an infantry officer, pilot, logistics officer, supply officer, intelligence officer, etc. you will eventually find yourself doing nothing remotely associated with the career you joined to do, and the longer you remain outside of your initial field, the more unlikely it will be to ever return. If I don't get accepted into WOFT, I will be putting in a Marine Corps WO package for my current job, but under no circumstances do I ever want to commission.

 

So regardless of branch of service, you need to ask yourself if you want to commission or become a WO. I would be very unhappy and unsatisfied with my career if I was a commissioned officer, but everyone is different. If the Marine Corps had a pilot WO program, then I would be applying for it - but they don't.

 

I am interested to hear comments from any of the Marine pilots on here.

[Hotdogs]

No thank you. I'll take the collateral duties you naturally have as an Army WO aviator any day over spending years in the "Land Use and Military Construction Branch."

 

Here's the deal. If you think because you're joining the Army you're not going to be put into shitty jobs that you don't like or won't do, you're in for a surprise. I'd also hesitate to shoot down a job that you have absolutely no background or experience to base it on. That could have been a sweet gig for that Marine. Who knows. Not shooting down your observations but I think I know more than a few Army pilots who have had some shitty deals. Ask anyone who's been stationed at Ft. Polk.

 

Yes, Navy and Marine aviators get pulled out of their career MOS to do something else for a short period. A good majority of the pilots in my community end up as FACs, IPs, and station pilots at other squadrons. Some go do resident EWS and then teach at TBS, others goto MAWTS to instruct. It's about becoming a well rounded "MAGTF" officer. Some like it, some don't. I haven't gotten that far yet, but you can expect to spend about 4-5 years in a squadron before moving on. That's also situationally dependent, if you have been found to be lacking talent inside the cockpit, you might get pulled to go something else. It just depends. I wouldn't say there is an "absurd" amount of aviators in a battalion, I'd say typically 1 Air-O, and a handful of FACs. We also have collateral duties too, as there is no such thing as just being a "Squadron pilot."

 

Here's the up side to that. We also get to go do things that the Army doesn't. Off of the top of my head, the FAO program, ANGLICO, MARSOC, you might hit port calls on a MEU, end up getting fixed wing time as a station pilot flying C-9s, end up going to one of the test squadrons at one of the VX/HXs, or go run around as FAC in Tank or LAR battalion. If you are up for another challenge you may put in a transition package to another platform like the MV-22 or a F/A-18. You are a Marine first, but that's not always bad thing.

[electron_si]

I'm going to have to google 20 acronyms now thanks to your post, I'm not familiar with this marine talk.

 

You might as well have written in wingdings lol

[jag32]

Here's the deal. If you think because you're joining the Army you're not going to be put into shitty jobs that you don't like or won't do, you're in for a surprise. I'd also hesitate to shoot down a job that you have absolutely no background or experience to base it on. That could have been a sweet gig for that Marine. Who knows. Not shooting down your observations but I think I know more than a few Army pilots who have had some shitty deals. Ask anyone who's been stationed at Ft. Polk.

 

Yes, Navy and Marine aviators get pulled out of their career MOS to do something else for a short period. A good majority of the pilots in my community end up as FACs, IPs, and station pilots at other squadrons. Some go do resident EWS and then teach at TBS, others goto MAWTS to instruct. It's about becoming a well rounded "MAGTF" officer. Some like it, some don't. I haven't gotten that far yet, but you can expect to spend about 4-5 years in a squadron before moving on. That's also situationally dependent, if you have been found to be lacking talent inside the cockpit, you might get pulled to go something else. It just depends. I wouldn't say there is an "absurd" amount of aviators in a battalion, I'd say typically 1 Air-O, and a handful of FACs. We also have collateral duties too, as there is no such thing as just being a "Squadron pilot."

 

Here's the up side to that. We also get to go do things that the Army doesn't. Off of the top of my head, the FAO program, ANGLICO, MARSOC, you might hit port calls on a MEU, end up getting fixed wing time as a station pilot flying C-9s, end up going to one of the test squadrons at one of the VX/HXs, or go run around as FAC in Tank or LAR battalion. If you are up for another challenge you may put in a transition package to another platform like the MV-22 or a F/A-18. You are a Marine first, but that's not always bad thing.

That is the issue for me personally though, is that I do not want to be a Marine officer first and a pilot second. My last deployment was with MARSOC, the one before that was with victor 2/4, i've operated with ANGLICO, I deployed with BLT 1/6 on the 24th MEU in 2008, and if I am denied by the Army for the WOFT program, I will be going on the DAO program as a Marine SSgt. I have had little exposure to Marine aviation actually within the air wing, however I have worked extensively with Marine pilots who were serving as FACs, Air-Os, etc. and most of them are disgruntled and want to get back to flying. Most of them spend their entire deployments as watch officers at a battalion or company COC. I have not had an incredible amount of exposure to Army aviation, however i've been on the receiving end of support by the 160th and it was enough to sell me. The regular Army is not enough for me, just like the regular Marine Corps is not enough to satisfy me as well. I am hungry, I want to operate, and the Army components of SOF have the best opportunities to do it. I understand fully what Marine aviation is capable of- if it were not for the ACE on the 24th MEU in '08 and the Cobra support, I wouldn't be here writing this post right now, but I do know that being a Marine aviator and my future role as a well rounded MAGTF officer would not bring me career satisfaction and is just not the path I want to go. I have had a unique career and have served with and supported almost every ground component of a MAGTF and I have little desire to return to any of those units in any capacity.

[Hotdogs]

I do know that being a Marine aviator and my future role as a well rounded MAGTF officer would not bring me career satisfaction and is just not the path I want to go.

 

There's nothing wrong with that, just don't let a handful of disgruntled opinions make your decisions for you or your experience as an enlisted Marine jade your opinion. Life is a different as a officer and a aviator and you have a little more control over your direction. Life will be different as a warrant compared to a regular officer. Just like life as enlisted JAG will be vastly different than what you chose to do next. Typically FACs only spend about a year or less in the battalion to ensure they keep certain qualifications that expire after one year. Talking to pilots who have done tours as a FAC, sometimes taking a year out of the cockpit is a good change of pace because life in a high op-temp squadron can burn you out. It depends on the community and timing. I think working as a FAC one day would be very rewarding. Also, don't forget how grunts react towards your community as they do tend treat and talk to pilots differently based on their platforms. If you think that having been supported by the 160th is a good representation of the entire Army then you're looking at the Army through a soda straw. The funding and hours that unit gets would make Donald Trump blush.

 

For me, the Marines seemed more challenging. Operating off of a ship and out at sea was something that I wanted to do. I had a better chance of flying an attack platform and I wasn't dead set on flying helicopters either. I hung out with a bunch of Army warrant applicants in college and most of them settled to fly for the Army because nobody else would take them. I didn't really feel like nor have the desire to hang out with guys who didn't have the drive to push themselves. I had buddies that tried out for the Marines, quit and went into the Army. I think adversity drives competition and that inspires excellence. I'm not trying to dig on the Army here but that was a serious factor in my decision. They've done some great things over the last decade. The pay difference and duty locations alone also was a big factor in my decision.

 

The thread is also about how Navy and Marine aviation is different and what are the benefits to choosing those routes. Not about why you shouldn't go one way or the other. It ultimately leads to a pissing contest. I could also throw out reasons to not go the Army route, but I'm not going down that road. If you have any positive or different experiences with Marine or Navy aviation then throw it out there.

[Lindsey]

I hung out with a bunch of Army warrant applicants in college and most of them settled to fly for the Army because nobody else would take them. I didn't really feel like nor have the desire to hang out with guys who didn't have the drive to push themselves. I had buddies that tried out for the Marines, quit and went into the Army. I think adversity drives competition and that inspires excellence. I'm not trying to dig on the Army here but that was a serious factor in my decision.

 

I'm curious as to what timeframe this was? I'm not digging on you or the reasons you went Marines over Army, but I do know that around 2005-2007, the Army was almost taking just about anyone. This is when both Iraq and Afghanistan were dominating the news, and when the economy was good (thus not a lot of people looking to join). The Army needed (lots of) pilots, and naturally the selection rate was much higher as a result. I'd argue it's a bit different now. But I'm just a civvie.

 

By the way, Hotdogs--I posted up something in the Flying Videos section you might enjoy.

[Hotdogs]

I'm curious as to what timeframe this was? I'm not digging on you or the reasons you went Marines over Army, but I do know that around 2005-2007, the Army was almost taking just about anyone. This is when both Iraq and Afghanistan were dominating the news, and when the economy was good (thus not a lot of people looking to join). The Army needed (lots of) pilots, and naturally the selection rate was much higher as a result. I'd argue it's a bit different now. But I'm just a civvie.

 

Your timeframe is correct and so are your circumstances. None the less, it was an interesting time for anyone looking to join. I will note though that I did lose about half of my OCS platoon prior to graduating - regardless of the economy. I enjoyed the vid btw That's a rare one and pretty hard to find.

[Synixman]

Navy 60 bubba here. New to this forum. Hotdogs is right on the mark, and it's similar for Navy guys. Since we are all officers, we have leadership duties in addition to flying. There are flying warrants in the Navy, but it's a test program with only a handful of dudes. I'm not saying the Army does it right or wrong, just different. The career options are different as well. Only those that do well as officers get the opportunity to continue flying.

 

If anyone has Navy specific questions I'd be glad to jump in and answer.