Video: R22 saves RC plane from tree tops.

[Propsandrotors]

I'm not looking an employer, I own my own chopper biz, just admit it tight ass......it was cool. If you need to express your true feelings along with 800,000 viewers go to YouTube and comment on my video.....I won't tell any of your buddies in this forum.

 

That's only half of the equation though. Risk management decisions should be based on an analysis of risk vs reward. I've certainly put my aircraft in much more dangerous situations, but the payoff was always higher. The only real reward here was at a personal level. The satisfaction of being able to help someone out, and knowing you were the only one in the world at that moment in time with the capability to do so. Probably a bit of an adrenaline rush and a story to tell your grandkids, too. These are legitimate rewards if in fact the pilot was also the owner of the aircraft and he was flying for recreation. Whether that's worth putting the aircraft in a position where a mishap is more likely and will have more severe consequences is a decision for the pilot. This wouldn't be an acceptable decision for a professional pilot though. That should be clear because if you ask yourself whether you would want a prospective employer seeing this video, I think everyone would answer "no."

 

Nearly Retired addressed my other concern. If you are going to do this you should take a couple minutes to reduce the risk as much as you can. Think about possible alternatives, identify the hazards and discuss your plan for dealing with them before you're confronted with them (asking the student to check the tail when he was already down in the trees was a bit late).

[nightsta1ker]

The guy owns his own company and helicopters, and from what I hear, he is a darn good pilot. One of those "characters" that everyone either loves or hates. I agree with everyone that it all could have been done with a little more thought and planning. It would have been a good opportunity for the instructor to do some ADM training with his student. This seemed to go right out the window though. A little look-see evolved rather quickly into a rescue operation for... of all things... a $500 RC airplane. Sure, it's his show, but I hope his student has enough common sense to know that he should not go out and do that kind of thing. Was it cool? Absolutely. Is being cool always the best choice? Absolutely not. As far as the language, I have to (quite literally) bite my tongue sometimes in the cockpit to keep from spitting foul language out. There is no room for it there. However, some people are raised that way and it's just a part of how they communicate. There probably isn't a program in the world that could de-program that man's foul mouth. It is what it is. Obviously it's not hurting his business, and down in those parts, it's often the norm.

[michaels214]

One of the best pieces of advice I got so far (i'm 3-4 weeks in) is "make the helicopter your bitch!" - from another instructor during a 5 hour check. For some reason it really motivated me to control the damn thing. And my instructor always tells me "Stop looking at the fu*king ground!", and it really helps me to remember not to look at the ground lol. I like it a lot haha

[Nomad110]

I doubt this guys liability insurance company thinks this is cool.

[Nearly Retired]

Hey Paco, thanks for pointing that "No Smoking" thing about the R-22 to me. I am blissfully ignorant of anything Robinson. And I intend to stay that way, thankavrymuch. But if, as someone else reported the cigarette was not even lit, then this is a non-issue.

 

While I focused on the pre-takeoff hover-check that was done, Ridethisbike also brought up the fact that no OGE hover-check was done either. And I missed that, yeah. The CFI/PIC just shot a quick approach to the tops of the trees without first ascertaining that he wouldn't fall through when he came to a hover. If he had settled into the trees and the GoPro caught it all on camera we'd have a very different thread now, wouldn't we? Admittedly maybe that guy knows his ship better than I know mine, but... I'd still do an OGE hover-power-check in the JetRanger I fly just to be safe.

 

Like everyone has said: It worked out. But it very easily could have *not* worked out considering the rushing, the lack of planning and the lack of briefing. Thus, it was not a "safe" operation, and certainly not one I would want demonstrated to any students.

[Rotortramp]

I guess the old aviation adage, "there are old pilots, and there are bold pilots, but there are no old, bold pilots" has finally been proven false?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Joe Blow]

I agree with what you guys have stated. Its a slippery slope. However, I like the idea of rolling down the throttle. But when you do that in a 22 the blades will lose their centrifugal force holding them out straight, and will droop a little bit more, thus potentially creating a greater hazard than leaving the 22 at operating power.

[C of G]

It's not even a 5 minute video, so how do we know power checks weren't performed on the last pattern? Just saying all we can see is what's shown on the video. We can see he didn't perform it on film, but we aslo saw him hover OGE, so perhaps the proof is in the pudding. The smoking was irksome to me, as well. Personality of the pilots aside...

 

I didn't care for how the pilot in the right seat didn't give full control to the pilot in the left seat. Looked like he kept his hand on the cyclic grip for way too long in the transfer.

 

I also wonder why operators roll the engines to idle when they have passengers get on or off or walk under the disk. Seems you give up aircraft control when you do that, as well as centrifugal blade loading as was stated.

Edited October 31, 2012 by C of G

[Nearly Retired]

C of G, the video looks unedited to me. It looks to me like the guy did a continuous spiraling approach right to the top of the trees. Me, personally, I would have come in a lot slower and more cautiously and got it into a stabilized hover above and certainly *before* committing myself to hovering in the treetops. But that's just me. And despite how I may come off in these pages, I am not God's gift to aviation. I've come so close to crashing so many times that I wonder how I'm still alive. It's made me somewhat more cautious in my doddering, shuffling, incontinent old age.

 

And yes, when the CFI/PIC said, "I have all three controls," the student clearly did not relinquish the cyclic or the pedals. Hey, when someone says, "I have the controls" the other pilot's hands and feet are to come OFF...at least until otherwise instructed (e.g. "follow me through"). Yet another briefing failure?

 

This video is being discussed over on the PPRUNE board as well. On it, there's a frequent poster named Joel Tobias who owns his own JetRanger. Of this video he posted,

"I'm making no comment about the aviating, but do people really speak like that? Especially once they are no longer teenagers ?"

BAAAAHAHAHAH! We Americans seem to be developing a reputation as crude and boorish...which is often interpreted in some circles as unprofessional. Yet, perversely, we almost seem proud of this distinction!

 

In general, the PPRUNE guys are much less critical of the event than the cast of illiterate nitwits, morons, egotistical know-nothings, boobs, trolls, high school dropouts, private pilots, murses and other assorted SLF that inhabit the JH board. By contrast, some of the usually-conservative PPRUNE commenters actually thought it was a well-planned and executed stunt.

 

I disagree. "It worked out," is the best that can be said about it. And so that's all I'll say

[nightsta1ker]

I guess the old aviation adage, "there are old pilots, and there are bold pilots, but there are no old, bold pilots" has finally been proven false?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You can be bold and live to be old, but you had better be d@mn good at what you do!

[C of G]

There was no power check in the video, agreed, but I'm saying the video picked up mid flight, so perhaps they were out doing OGE hovering leading up to this. I'm not commenting on anything other than "we don't know". I'm not saying he did, or didn't or wether it was a great idea or not, I'm just saying we can't hang the crew based on a less than 5 minute video as to wether he did a hover check or not.

[Propsandrotors]

Lighten up on me guys...Im a fellow chopper pilot. I do agree the mouth was out of control, but all the throwing me under the bus is uncalled for. Its no different than taking off or landing in a confined area......HELL, THAT IN ITSELF COULD BE CONSIDERED BAD JUDGEMENT. Were not flying cessna 150's here guys, although it sounds like some of you should be......your in dead mans curve every time, or like hanging a platform off your skids with a guy sitting on it fixing high voltage wires, Oh...and the smokie treat I was having is an electronic cigarette, trying reAL HARD TO QUIT! I do respect all of your concerns and some of your comments.....but what really sucks about all this negative feedback is lack of knowledge on your part. You guys that think im just a crazy pilot that should have his wings clipped should relax a little and not be so judgmental ....I have invested hundreds of thousands in this business that i am so passionate about and probably one of the happiest and content human beings on the face of the earth........I hope for you guys spurting off negatives that one day after you have spent enough hours in these amazing machines to truly realize the many dimensions and capabilities choppers have to offer, you can realize that the guy that saved the RC airplane from the tree wasn't so bad after all! QUIT BEING SO UGLY!!!!! FYI.....I didn't post the video.

[eagle5]

The guy in the left seat seems a bit old to use the word "sick" in that context (its usually kids who think its a "positive" slang term), other than that, the event seemed pretty normal to me, based on my training experiences.

 

Didn't the first R22 come with a ash tray?

Edited October 31, 2012 by eagle5

[Spike]

Powercheck-smourcheck…. The hijack of the controls not to mention the hijack of the overall flight is what’s really disconcerting… IF, and I’m mean IF, this is an instructional flight, this guy, owner or not, broke all the rules when discussing professionalism as a flight instructor. Plus, he put the student in a bad position. Not necessarily safety wise (which can be debated), but he didn’t even discuss what his intention was with the student. Yes, he mentioned it as a “what if?”, but he basically just went and did it without finding out if the student/passenger was cool with it…. Who was paying for the flight?

 

Cigarette lit or not…. The “F” bombs…. The instantaneous decision to proceed…. The flight control hijack….. Allowing the folks on the ground near the running helicopter….. All bad examples for the student… Super-pilot or not, the student got an F'n bad example...

 

And O-M-G, the unsecured dog…. At one of our local airports, an aircraft owner had his Golden Labrador sliced to shreds when it tried to nip at an operating prop… Just plain dumb….

 

Lastly no, the R22 didn’t come with an ashtray because Frank didn’t want the extra expense to put one in as “standard equipment”. Thus, the “NO Smoking” limitation….

[nightsta1ker]

but he basically just went and did it without finding out if the student/passenger was cool with it…. Who was paying for the flight?

 

 

Actually, when he runs his hypothetical scenario out, you can hear the student say "Go for it!". That is agreement enough in my opinion. I agree with all the other points you mentioned though.

 

Edit: Grammar

Edited October 31, 2012 by nightsta1ker

[Spike]

Actually, when he runs his hypothetical scenario out, you can hear the student say "Go for it!".

 

In my world, spouting out a hypothetical which gains a “go for it” response and no further specific communication about the task at hand by no means equates to a “plan of action”. In fact, this is a common error in CRM. In other words, the statement “do you have the pole?” which generates a “I’ve got the pole” reply actually means nothing.. That is, how many poles are we talking about and where are they with regards to the machine?

 

And, while this owner/operator is free to conduct his business how he sees fit, I’ll ask, why not turn this event into a teaching/learning moment? Why hijack the event from the student? Couldn’t this be a perfect opportunity for SBT? Or should it be classified as a “do as I say, not as I do” kinda thang?

 

Plus, I get the feeling this wasn’t his first time for this sorta thing…..

Edited October 31, 2012 by Spike

[pilot#476398]

I also wonder why operators roll the engines to idle when they have passengers get on or off or walk under the disk. Seems you give up aircraft control when you do that, as well as centrifugal blade loading as was stated.

 

I do it because I've flown plenty of Robbies who's collectives like to creep up when the RPM is in the green and I don't want to suddenly become airborn,..if I, without thinking, let go of the collective, and/or forgot to put on the friction!

[nightsta1ker]

In my world, spouting out a hypothetical which gains a “go for it” response and no further specific communication about the task at hand by no means equates to a “plan of action”. In fact, this is a common error in CRM. In other words, the statement “do you have the pole?” which generates a “I’ve got the pole” reply actually means nothing.. That is, how many poles are we talking about and where are they with regards to the machine?

 

And, while this owner/operator is free to conduct his business how he sees fit, I’ll ask, why not turn this event into a teaching/learning moment? Why hijack the event from the student? Couldn’t this be a perfect opportunity for SBT? Or should it be classified as a “do as I say, not as I do” kinda thang?

 

Plus, I get the feeling this wasn’t his first time for this sorta thing…..

 

You are absolutely right. I just got the impression that his student was totally on board with it from the get-go. I was simply pointing that out. Not arguing with your ultimate point.

[ridethisbike]

I do it because I've flown plenty of Robbies who's collectives like to creep up when the RPM is in the green and I don't want to suddenly become airborn,..if I, without thinking, let go of the collective, and/or forgot to put on the friction!

 

Another reason... What if the guy who got out bumped the cyclic on his way in or out of the helicopter?

 

I don't know that enough lift is produced to induce a roll over, but I'd rather not find out the hard way.

[Fred0311]

And what if my instructor bumped the cyclic when he got out for my solo? You can what if something to death. This is simply a cool video with too much profanity which demonstrates a cowboy attitude instead of a safety conscious one. It had a happy ending so, but we can all learn from the hazards shown.

[Spike]

Not arguing...

 

Me neither and I completely understood what you were saying. Just pointing out how-betta it could’ve been. Plus, as you know, students are impressionable. So much so, students will do most anything to impress the instructor, or in this case, the owner….. Gotta be coo to get the gig….

 

Lastly, it was once common for flight instructors to simulate a “customer” and attempt to bait the student into something he/she shouldn’t do. If “let’s go for it!” was the answer, off went the throttle…..

[pilot#476398]

...You can what if something to death. This is simply a cool video with too much profanity which demonstrates a cowboy attitude instead of a safety conscious one. It had a happy ending so, but we can all learn from the hazards shown.

 

Not exactly a "what if" in the case of the collective coming up causing a sudden, unexpected, pick up. It happened to a CFI I knew . Fortunately he also had a "happy ending",...but that was later,...after a message!

[Fred0311]

Your right it is a concern, I'm used to things getting "what if'ed" ad nauseum. But that's a good thing in aviation. I was thinking it should be common sense for someone to be able to get out without hitting controls, but then again if that was true people wouldn't walk into tail rotors. So that brings something up. In your risk analysis how far do you what if something?

[ridethisbike]

Your right it is a concern, I'm used to things getting "what if'ed" ad nauseum. But that's a good thing in aviation. I was thinking it should be common sense for someone to be able to get out without hitting controls, but then again if that was true people wouldn't walk into tail rotors. So that brings something up. In your risk analysis how far do you what if something?

 

To the point where you crawl under your desk, crying, sucking your thumb and scared to the point where the thought of leaving your new found sanctuary makes you pee your pants?

 

 

There's always going to be a level of risk in anything one does. Mitigate what you can, and plan for the rest to an acceptable degree. Obviously you can't plan for everything, but you CAN plan for the most probable things.

[Falko]

Amen